Will incentivized economic programs work in New York? (Buffalo, Rochester: how much, school districts)

[Buffaboy]

For one, I believe Start Up NY, the Buffalo Billion and this Upstate Revitalization challenge are all worth it to at least put a spark in the economy. But not everyone does. I randomly pulled peanut gallery comments from different news articles about different projects like this in NY:

SolarCity:

[...]that's what's strange about moving to this area a couple of years ago..there are almost no"private" sector ingenuity and jobs..everything connected to government programs and favors from those who deliver the program...interesting to see how "buffalo billion" sustains itself in the long run after the hype dies down.

Nano Utica:

And the reason they are building in Utica?



Well, let me tell you!



First off they will not pay ANY taxes. They will also get most of the building costs paid for by NY State (us). They will also not get hassled about dumping those pesky pollutants into the river.



Then, ten years from now when the tax breaks end guess what will happen?



The company will move out leaving a huge group of people with no jobs, an empty building and toxic clean left for NY State tax payers. Don't believe me? Ask Cortland NY about XEROX and Rubbermaid, two companies that did EXACTLY what I just described.

Rochester and Albany are happy cities, I couldn't find anything about the photonics institute.

I can go on and on for pages with this kind of thing, but I want to be objective and ask, are the fears warranted, or are they not? I tend to be an idealistic person.

[JWRocks]

These programs are not sustainable. Low taxes for all is the only way it will work. If the government would just stay out of it, things will eventually normalize but it will take years. not everyone will be happy with how it settles out, but that would pretty much stop all the future recessions.

The one that really kills me is the solar plant in Buffalo. First the taxpayer builds the company a brand new building and then on the product side, the taxpayer is forced to issue rebates, not the manufacturer. Sweeeeeeet. I'd love to get my own business like that.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by JWRocks

These programs are not sustainable. Low taxes for all is the only way it will work. If the government would just stay out of it, things will eventually normalize but it will take years. not everyone will be happy with how it settles out, but that would pretty much stop all the future recessions.

The one that really kills me is the solar plant in Buffalo. First the taxpayer builds the company a brand new building and then on the product side, the taxpayer is forced to issue rebates, not the manufacturer. Sweeeeeeet. I'd love to get my own business like that.

What is crazy is that this is the new normal, even in states known or that supposedly have low taxes. Here's the incentive plan in Texas: https://texaswideopenforbusiness.com...ives-financing

For NY, it really has to look at its school taxes and is why I've said to look into school district consolidation. While the chart is old, look at how much the school tax makes up of the property tax total: 2007 Tax Rates

[JWRocks]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

What is crazy is that this is the new normal, even in states known or that supposedly have low taxes. Here's the incentive plan in Texas: https://texaswideopenforbusiness.com...ives-financing

For NY, it really has to look at its school taxes and is why I've said to look into school district consolidation. While the chart is old, look at how much the school tax makes up of the property tax total: 2007 Tax Rates

While we all think that school taxes are too high, ponder this:
Most school districts say it costs $12,000-$15,000 per student per year to educate each child, yet people are only paying $2-3,000 per year per household regardless how many children. Where does the rest of the money come from? While some comes from your neighbors without kids. The rest logically has to be coming mostly from businesses. That is why the government has to offer tax incentives. It is all very crazy and is really just a shell game with our reps right in the middle telling us that they will fix the problem THEY created, only to make it worse in the end.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by JWRocks

While we all think that school taxes are too high, ponder this:
Most school districts say it costs $12,000-$15,000 per student per year to educate each child, yet people are only paying $2-3,000 per year per household regardless how many children. Where does the rest of the money come from? While some comes from your neighbors without kids. The rest logically has to be coming mostly from businesses. That is why the government has to offer tax incentives. It is all very crazy and is really just a shell game with our reps right in the middle telling us that they will fix the problem THEY created, only to make it worse in the end.

You consolidate and cut positions at the top. Does this state need several hundred superintendents and school boards? There are actually school districts that stop at grades 4-8.

Also, the business community has helped consolidate school districts in some areas. Here's an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_C...System#History

So, the business community saw how consolidation could help the economy and it doesn't necessarily have to be done the same as the example above.

[VintageSunlight]

And $12-15k seems excessive to educate one kid. Especially since the kids I see these days can barely read or write or do math. I was talking with a 19 year old guy on one of my jobsites and he couldn't spell the most basic words- words like degraded, contaminated, profile, etc. Couldn't write because he only knows how to type. And forget it when I had to use the Pythagorean Theorem (a2 + b2 = c2), it might as well have been Chinese calculus.

I don't have kids but it seems that kids are being failed in schools. A back to basic curriculum would be good and cheap. Budget balancing, how to stay married, reading, writing, arithmetic, history!