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For a number of years now, I've had a strong desire to move to upstate New York, with two particular areas of interest - the Syracuse area and Jamestown in the western part of the state, as that's recently caught my eye as a place I'd really like to live.
I currently reside in Atlanta, GA, have been since 2005 (lived in south Florida before that), but I'm just not happy living in the South. The summer heat gets more and more difficult for me to deal with each passing year, the bad air quality keeps me from ever kicking my asthma for good (although it is quite a bit better than what I suffered through in Florida), and I just cannot stand big-city urban sprawl. Everything is so far from everywhere else - which means a lot of time driving - not one of my fave activities at all. Add in the crappy economy around here these days (10.7% unemployment) and an unrelenting rise in property taxes (50% increase in my property tax since 2005 - so much for the South being known for those "low" taxes...ha ha); I just want out, and soon.
A bit of background info: I am currently enrolled in the local tech college as part of my career change from being a city planner and more recently, a home inspector, to that of carpentry and woodworking. Once I complete my training, I hope to go into cabinetmaking / furniture making and/or home restoration (floors, etc). I plan on being self-employed, much as I have been for the past couple of years. I currently live in a home with a decent amount of equity, about the same as I put into it when I cashed out from the great Florida Housing Bubble of 2005. I do live in a good, attractive-location neighborhood with decent sales activity even in the midst of our current housing depression, so I'm not too worried about selling this place in a year or two. If I get close to what I put in, I'll be happy.
Why upstate New York? Well, for one, I'm love with it and have been for years and years. It's just a beautiful land, filled with undulating hills, forests, lakes and streams, with classic American small towns and mid-sized cities strewn about. Nice, sensible people too. Unlike crowded Atlanta or South Florida, upstate New York has been depopulating for decades, leaving plenty of elbow room for a guy who doesn't like traffic, busy stores and expensive real estate and its associated sprawl. Upstate New York offers superb fishing, hiking, skiing and foliage-watching in the fall - a total bonanza for a nature-lover like me.
Granted, Atlanta was a vast improvement over Florida in terms of real estate (and climate too, for that matter), but when I look at housing prices in say, Jamestown, and compare it to what houses sell for around here, there's just no comparison. Down here, I have a mortgage. Up there, I'd be able to live in a decent house with NO mortgage. Sure, the property taxes are high, but with the way things are going here, I'll prolly be saving money in tax by the time I end up moving in a year or two, simply because I'd pick a house that's way lower in price than the one I currently own (a fixer-upper is what I'd be looking for anyhow, as I love to fix up old houses.)
And before any of you jump on me about the snow issue - lemme say this: I LOVE SNOW! I don't just hate summer heat and humidity, I absolutely adore winter. I love sleeping in a cold house, I love the challenge of "battling the elements," and I'd give anything to experience a genuine, bona fide White Christmas. Of course, I'll be in heaven just to experience a typical Jamestown summer, with its avg highs in the upper 70's - making it even more enticing than Syracuse's low 80's for summer highs. Either location would be a vast improvement over our dreaded 90-degree summers which go on and on and on.
I know there are a great number of people out there who would advise me not to move up to New York, due to the depressed nature of the area, the cold, the high taxes, but dang it, I just can't stand here any longer. It's just isn't what it used to be, either - crappy economy, soaring taxes and crime - I mean, whatever happened to the idea of the "quality of life" we're supposed to have in the South?
On the other hand, I sincerely believe that the Rust Belt areas of the US will experience an economic revival in the years to come, especially once the US dollar plumbs ever-deeper depths (ask any self-respecting economist, they will say that this is a near certainty) - which will eventually lead to a rise in manufacturing in this country. And upstate New York will be ready for this revival. They have access to 25% of the world's fresh water, they have scads of old factories ready to be reopened with just a bit of modernization and capital investment, and tons and tons of super-cheap real estate to make it affordable for people to live on modest means. Just gotta get rid of those pesky labor unions...LOL. Just this morning, I found a listing near Jamestown for an old commercial building with land around it that'd be perfect for my dream workshop - and the price? $50,000. Yep, that's it. $50k gets it all. Around here, the same kind of building w/ land would EASILY be 10x that amount. So what's to stop me from opening up a shop up there for very little capital outlay and make custom furniture and cabinets, much like the original furniture-makers did in places like Jamestown so very long ago?? Exactly.
I'll leave the floor open here for folks to shoot holes into my dream of moving to paradise, but be warned, there's precious little that can change my mind at this point. But I know it's a very good idea for me to learn as much as I can while I've got the time - and my move is still at least a year away, more like 18 months or so, so time is certainly on my side. I plan on making a recon trip to the area in June of next year to help make a final decision as to exactly where I'd like to relocate to.
Currently, my top two choices are Jamestown and Syracuse, with Ithaca more of a distant third, due to its relatively high real estate costs (love the town, though). Rochester and Buffalo are a bit too "big city" for my tastes, so I've left them off my list. I'll still give consideration to other small cities and towns elsewhere in the upstate, if there's a solid plus to moving there, and I resolve to keep an open mind about everything up until I make the actual decision to move.
For a number of years now, I've had a strong desire to move to upstate New York, with two particular areas of interest - the Syracuse area and Jamestown in the western part of the state, as that's recently caught my eye as a place I'd really like to live.
I currently reside in Atlanta, GA, have been since 2005 (lived in south Florida before that), but I'm just not happy living in the South. The summer heat gets more and more difficult for me to deal with each passing year, the bad air quality keeps me from ever kicking my asthma for good (although it is quite a bit better than what I suffered through in Florida), and I just cannot stand big-city urban sprawl. Everything is so far from everywhere else - which means a lot of time driving - not one of my fave activities at all. Add in the crappy economy around here these days (10.7% unemployment) and an unrelenting rise in property taxes (50% increase in my property tax since 2005 - so much for the South being known for those "low" taxes...ha ha); I just want out, and soon.
A bit of background info: I am currently enrolled in the local tech college as part of my career change from being a city planner and more recently, a home inspector, to that of carpentry and woodworking. Once I complete my training, I hope to go into cabinetmaking / furniture making and/or home restoration (floors, etc). I plan on being self-employed, much as I have been for the past couple of years. I currently live in a home with a decent amount of equity, about the same as I put into it when I cashed out from the great Florida Housing Bubble of 2005. I do live in a good, attractive-location neighborhood with decent sales activity even in the midst of our current housing depression, so I'm not too worried about selling this place in a year or two. If I get close to what I put in, I'll be happy.
Why upstate New York? Well, for one, I'm love with it and have been for years and years. It's just a beautiful land, filled with undulating hills, forests, lakes and streams, with classic American small towns and mid-sized cities strewn about. Nice, sensible people too. Unlike crowded Atlanta or South Florida, upstate New York has been depopulating for decades, leaving plenty of elbow room for a guy who doesn't like traffic, busy stores and expensive real estate and its associated sprawl. Upstate New York offers superb fishing, hiking, skiing and foliage-watching in the fall - a total bonanza for a nature-lover like me.
Granted, Atlanta was a vast improvement over Florida in terms of real estate (and climate too, for that matter), but when I look at housing prices in say, Jamestown, and compare it to what houses sell for around here, there's just no comparison. Down here, I have a mortgage. Up there, I'd be able to live in a decent house with NO mortgage. Sure, the property taxes are high, but with the way things are going here, I'll prolly be saving money in tax by the time I end up moving in a year or two, simply because I'd pick a house that's way lower in price than the one I currently own (a fixer-upper is what I'd be looking for anyhow, as I love to fix up old houses.)
And before any of you jump on me about the snow issue - lemme say this: I LOVE SNOW! I don't just hate summer heat and humidity, I absolutely adore winter. I love sleeping in a cold house, I love the challenge of "battling the elements," and I'd give anything to experience a genuine, bona fide White Christmas. Of course, I'll be in heaven just to experience a typical Jamestown summer, with its avg highs in the upper 70's - making it even more enticing than Syracuse's low 80's for summer highs. Either location would be a vast improvement over our dreaded 90-degree summers which go on and on and on.
I know there are a great number of people out there who would advise me not to move up to New York, due to the depressed nature of the area, the cold, the high taxes, but dang it, I just can't stand here any longer. It's just isn't what it used to be, either - crappy economy, soaring taxes and crime - I mean, whatever happened to the idea of the "quality of life" we're supposed to have in the South?
On the other hand, I sincerely believe that the Rust Belt areas of the US will experience an economic revival in the years to come, especially once the US dollar plumbs ever-deeper depths (ask any self-respecting economist, they will say that this is a near certainty) - which will eventually lead to a rise in manufacturing in this country. And upstate New York will be ready for this revival. They have access to 25% of the world's fresh water, they have scads of old factories ready to be reopened with just a bit of modernization and capital investment, and tons and tons of super-cheap real estate to make it affordable for people to live on modest means. Just gotta get rid of those pesky labor unions...LOL. Just this morning, I found a listing near Jamestown for an old commercial building with land around it that'd be perfect for my dream workshop - and the price? $50,000. Yep, that's it. $50k gets it all. Around here, the same kind of building w/ land would EASILY be 10x that amount. So what's to stop me from opening up a shop up there for very little capital outlay and make custom furniture and cabinets, much like the original furniture-makers did in places like Jamestown so very long ago?? Exactly.
I'll leave the floor open here for folks to shoot holes into my dream of moving to paradise, but be warned, there's precious little that can change my mind at this point. But I know it's a very good idea for me to learn as much as I can while I've got the time - and my move is still at least a year away, more like 18 months or so, so time is certainly on my side. I plan on making a recon trip to the area in June of next year to help make a final decision as to exactly where I'd like to relocate to.
Currently, my top two choices are Jamestown and Syracuse, with Ithaca more of a distant third, due to its relatively high real estate costs (love the town, though). Rochester and Buffalo are a bit too "big city" for my tastes, so I've left them off my list. I'll still give consideration to other small cities and towns elsewhere in the upstate, if there's a solid plus to moving there, and I resolve to keep an open mind about everything up until I make the actual decision to move.
Thanks for reading this admittedly long post.
Considering your outdoor interests, what about places like Plattsburgh, Glens Falls, Watertown, Utica-Rome, Massena, Ogdensburg, Malone and Saranac Lake? Actually, the Watertown and Plattsburgh areas are growing a little bit, but not at all at a rapid pace. I believe all of those areas are affordable too.
Considering your outdoor interests, what about places like Plattsburgh, Glens Falls, Watertown, Utica-Rome, Massena, Ogdensburg, Malone and Saranac Lake? Actually, the Watertown and Plattsburgh areas are growing a little bit, but not at all at a rapid pace. I believe all of those areas are affordable too.
I should probably include the Utica-Rome area along with Syracuse, as I'd love to be that close to the Adirondacks, but I'd rather not go further east than that. I'd like to have easier access to places like Toronto, Pittsburgh and points further south, and having winters not quite so bitterly cold as they might be in say, Watertown.
I'll see how much visiting I can do next June anyhow - won't hurt for me to keep considering other areas in the meantime, I suppose.
I should probably include the Utica-Rome area along with Syracuse, as I'd love to be that close to the Adirondacks, but I'd rather not go further east than that. I'd like to have easier access to places like Toronto, Pittsburgh and points further south, and having winters not quite so bitterly cold as they might be in say, Watertown.
I'll see how much visiting I can do next June anyhow - won't hurt for me to keep considering other areas in the meantime, I suppose.
What about the Finger Lakes Region? You might like places like Geneva, Canandaigua, Seneca Falls, Waterloo, Penn Yan, etc.
What about the Finger Lakes Region? You might like places like Geneva, Canandaigua, Seneca Falls, Waterloo, Penn Yan, etc.
Yes, I've looked into those too...all so very tempting!
Too bad I have to decide on a single location at some point or another. I just have to figure out what's going to work best for my business, future potential of the area, and the bottom line, how cheap it'll be to have a house and/or free-standing workshop.
I'd look in Fabius or Tully, in your position. Tully, more specifically, since it's right off of I-81 and going anywhere would be fairly simple. Rte. 80 (going into the Southern Tier and Cazenovia) and Rte. 20 (spreading across the state, east to west) are within are within a 5 minute drive, if not directly from there.
Very convenient, beautiful, extremely affordable. Fabius is 13063 and Tully is 13159. LaFayette (13084), Pompey (13080) are exactly beside them and are other good choices... all are located in the scenic hills just south of Syracuse. There are several mountains for skiing within 15 minutes and beautiful views in these areas. My favorite area, by far, and also where I grew up. If you want to be even more centrally located to the southern tier, look into Cazenovia (13035.)
If I had to chose I'd go with Glens Falls, but it also has the most new suburban sprawl and is the most expensive metro out those six.
Out of the above six metros, Jamestown and Utica have the most snow. Elmira has the least.
The I-90 corridor from Batavia to Albany is the warmest part of Upstate NY for most of the year. The Southern Tier is cooler since it is higher up in elevation.
After just reading your post again, I can see why Jamestown is considered. It's a smaller metro/micro(has been considered both) area that has of had a history of woodworking for the furniture industry. It is affordable and generally safe too.
If I had to chose I'd go with Glens Falls, but it also has the most new suburban sprawl and is the most expensive metro out those six.
Out of the above six metros, Jamestown and Utica have the most snow. Elmira has the least.
The I-90 corridor from Batavia to Albany is the warmest part of Upstate NY for most of the year. The Southern Tier is cooler since it is higher up in elevation.
Good list of towns you have there. Binghamton and Ithaca I visited in 2004, when I was considering the move to upstate NY the first time around. While Binghamton was hilly, pretty and full of eye-poppingly cheap real estate, I did find the attitude by some of its residents to be a bit depressing. For example, I stopped in a jobs center just to see what the employment situation was like, and they thought I was a crazy loon for even thinking about applying for a job in Binghamton. Ithaca, on the other hand, seemed bright and cheerful with real economic prospects. Too bad houses cost 2.5x what they do in poor, depressed Binghamton...that's the harshness of economics, unfortunately. But there's no doubt that beautiful Ithaca will always hold a place in my heart - perhaps it'll end up being a secondary relocation prospect once I'm a bit more financially secure.
Utica (and Syracuse for that matter ) I have not not visited yet, so I will tour those areas next June along with my Jamestown recon. While I understand that Syracuse has those newer, "sprawly" northern suburbs, that simply does not compare with what we have down here. Does Clay, for instance, have those horrible, traffic-choked 8-lane arterials with "forever" stoplights at frequent, major intersections? Does it take forever just to get to the local mall on Saturday afternoons? Do you have vast, soulless subdivisions filled with 100s and 100s of ugly cookie-cutter McMansions, with only one way in and out of those places? That's what I consider sprawl...LOL.
If I were to pick Syracuse as a place to live, I'd probably hone in on one of the traditional neighborhoods like Strathmore and Tip Hill - lots of low-cost fixer-upper houses to be had in those places. My concern is the crime, as I've been a victim of multiple burglaries while in south Florida - is it going to be a problem should I move into the actual city of Syracuse? That's something I'll have to consider with care, which would weigh against the potentially better business prospects of Syracuse as compared to the smaller metros of the Upstate.
Ckhthankgod, what you mentioned about Jamestown is exactly why that town is the current "flavor of the month" for me. It's got a great history of furniture-making and woodworking, which I find very intriguing for the business I wish to get in. I can't wait to visit there in person and get the true feel for that town - I just hope the people there don't have the same attitude as the ones I encountered in Binghamton. I'm aware that it's had some rough times as of late, but I have to think that it'll be poised for a turnaround one of these days. The prospect of being able to buy a house AND a shop in cash (from the proceeds of my current house) certainly is a huge, huge plus in my book. But we'll see what it's like in person anyhow.
Thanks for the replies I've received thus far, very informative.
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Add in the crappy economy around here these days (10.7% unemployment) and an unrelenting rise in property taxes (50% increase in my property tax since 2005 - so much for the South being known for those "low" taxes...ha ha); I just want out, and soon.
I don't just hate summer heat and humidity, I absolutely adore winter. I love sleeping in a cold house, I love the challenge of "battling the elements," and I'd give anything to experience a genuine, bona fide White Christmas. Of course, I'll be in heaven just to experience a typical Jamestown summer, with its avg highs in the upper 70's - making it even more enticing than Syracuse's low 80's for summer highs. Either location would be a vast improvement over our dreaded 90-degree summers which go on and on and on.
) I have not not visited yet, so I will tour those areas next June along with my Jamestown recon. While I understand that Syracuse has those newer, "sprawly" northern suburbs, that simply does not compare with what we have down here. Does Clay, for instance, have those horrible, traffic-choked 8-lane arterials with "forever" stoplights at frequent, major intersections? Does it take forever just to get to the local mall on Saturday afternoons? Do you have vast, soulless subdivisions filled with 100s and 100s of ugly cookie-cutter McMansions, with only one way in and out of those places? That's what I consider sprawl...LOL. 
