Left or planning to leave? (New York, Syracuse: insurance, mortgage, house)
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I'm not trying to start to an argument but this isn't true. The money goes towards administration, over-inflated pensions and so on. I'm sorry but not much goes towards students per se. I understand you feel obliged to defend the system but it's misguided. Look at city of Poughkeepsie and Yonkers - at least teachers and administrators are doing great. The taxes in my particular area in Tampa Bay are fairly high and schools are very good. Please do not generalize.
You've got it! Unfortunately New York's state and local governments are a wholly owned subsidiary of the teacher's and public employee's unions. Which are a core constituency of the Democratic Party who rule the state.
We actually moved to upstate NYS when we retired, from NJ, where our property taxes were $11K. For us, not necessarily for others, financially it works. Our property and school taxes are $5K and $1.2K. We have a 2400 sq. ft. home on 3.5 acres. Our taxes are reduced by military exemption, STAR, etc. We do not get senior exemption due to income. There is no personal tax on vehicles, car insurance is half of what it was in NJ nor does my military retirement get taxed as it does in other states, and our pensions have a $20K exemption each.
One of our relatives moved to NC, found that although the COL is cheaper, so are the wages. So it's all relative.
We have spent winters in FL in our motorhome for quite a few years. We considered buying a second residence in FL, but didn't want to be responsible for a home when we were gone April - October. Also, for us, we found it was more expensive to live in FL for basics like food. Although there is no state income tax, there are other taxes on phone, utilities, county tax, etc. Home and car insurance also was much higher.
Since we live in a rural area, many of the young people graduate and move to other states, because employment opportunities are minimal. Our children, who graduated in NJ, choose to live in other states also, no necessarily tied to jobs, but because they love where they live.
There seems to be a lot of homes being built up here, yet the population continues to decline due to lack of job opportunities. Yet I have found quite a few people that moved south, now moving back, for various reasons, mostly family and friends.
Thank you and this is the thing, people have to consider the potential changes in relation to their situation. Lower COL tends to have lower pay go hand and hand. There is also the aspect of personal skills, workforce competition, etc. in relation to jobs available in an area. Revenue and services may be achieved through different avenues as well. Home prices may/do increase due to increased demand. So, while aspects of government, business climate, etc need to be addressed, other aspects have to be considered in regards to a move to other states, regardless of where you move to.
My reasons are:
-tired of the winters
-outrageous property taxes
-no jobs
-too much government regulation
What were/are your reasons?
Same here. Jobs? Not an issue for us as we are self employed which gave us the opportunity to live anywhere in the country we choose. Not only that we are against everything and anything that the Democratic Party stands for. New York was not a good fit for us politically. Besides, Cuomo after passage of the "Safe Act" once boasted that "people that do not think like him" are not welcome there. A petty vindictive little tyrant to be sure. Well good for you "Andy" we love spending our hard earned income, boosting the economy in a state that "thinks like us". Fortunately we left well before that travesty was passed. Call it what you want. That was nothing more than political retribution towards those that "do not think like him". What better way to punish your political enemies than to criminalize their lawful behavior and basic Constitutional right?
California another Progressive state and Attorney General Loretta Lynch are now looking to prosecute those who speak out against climate change. Bad enough they want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment, they now want to go after the 1st. Will the entire Bill of Rights now be up for grabs? Political retribution that's what it's all about. If you do not fall in line and "think like us" we will find ways to punish you.
The first amendment is now dead in California: New...
wattsupwiththat.com/2016/06/02/the-first-amendment-i...
2 days ago ... A landmark California bill gaining steam would make it illegal to ... California bill would allow prosecution of climate-change skeptics
Since moving we have been able to achieve a lifestyle that was impossible had we stayed. Much nicer home and neighborhood all at a cost that is about 1/10th of what it cost in New York. We are now able to buy things that we want and not just basic necessities. Instead of watching our income disappear into the giant cesspool of corruption which is New York's state and local governments. Which happens to be one of the most corrupt in the nation. This applies to both parties. Yet people keep on electing these scoundrels? I guess they love being ruled by scoundrels and tyrants?
I just thank God I'm out of there. There's nothing like the taste of freedom.
Quote:
New York's political culture is reeling as federal prosecutors target some of the state's most powerful politicians. Cases against top Republicans and Democrats have offered a scathing glimpse of an insider game involving kickbacks, cronyism, and a money-fueled culture that shapes everything from the debate over energy policy to medical funding. Critics are asking whether this is the moment when reform finally comes to Albany.--w.npr.org/2015/12/11/459392726/new-yorks-political-corruption-scandal-opens-door-to-reform
Have you ever noticed how high the bar is when it comes to getting arrested for political corruption? Really, you practically have to go around with a sign that says “Will Trade Influence for Cash.”--http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/06/opinion/collins-a-new-era-in-political-corruption.html
Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 06-05-2016 at 08:20 AM..
Also, cost of living in many of these areas isn't as low as people think it is and you just get hit in different ways in terms of taxes and fees in relation to pay. All of this has also been mentioned as nauseum on this forum over the years as well. Here is an example where 1/3 of homeowners in SC have to deal with this: South Carolina lawmakers prepare to tackle divisive HOA issues | The State
It maybe foreign companies, but they are hiring there aren't they? What has my area got? More retail, food and nails shops. Or maybe the 14 pizza places in our town alone. My daughter insured her car in NC, it was $300 every six months-for liability only on her 12 year old car. Back home now, it's running her $1200 for the same vehicle and coverage. Add to it they gave SpectraWatt a tax incentive here-and they tanked. Dutchess County isn't attracting business to bring back the area. IBM is laying off more here.
As for COL, down south they have a personal property tax. I know all about it as my folks moved here in the 50's from the NC/VA areas. Considering I am paying right now for 3 vehicles alone at over $3k a year for insurance-which is stupid since I have no accidents, ticket's or claims. My homeowner is almost $1K and I have to have a umbrella policy too because I have one 18 year old at home still which adds another 700 a year. My camper-which in NYS can only be used if I a lucky just 6 months of the year adds another $250. I pay a MTA $25 surcharge on all our vehicles-I've ridden the train twice in the last 15 years. I even pay it on my camper-which can't move unless another vehicle tows it. I also pay a $25 surcharge for my vehicles here now by my county for use of the road way. Um, thought that's why I paid taxes.
I'd never, ever live in a HOA. They are run by small minded bullies who never grew up. Anyone who wants to live that way are more than welcome to. But no one forces you to live in HOA. I have better ways to spend my money and it's not on that.
My salary might not be as high as here, but my taxes are almost 8K. Two houses we've actively looked into buying there, the taxes were $800 a year. That's a HUGE difference. Maybe if your are making bank at over 6 figures, yeah then you might be concerned. But when you are low on that totem pole like us, it's going to be more in line with our line of work and we'll have a nest egg again after we sell our home-we paid it off in 11 years and we are down sizing.
So if you are in a higher tax bracket, you'll be in a different boat because you won't make what a Westchester/LI/NYC salary is. Although a close friend worked in NYC for 4 years, and got offered a job in Davenport, Iowa at another 45K more-he's a CFO. COL is WAY less out there and he's enjoying life again. Not living on a train. So it's all relative to what you want out of your own life. No one can live it for you. Your life isn't like mine so you really can't judge how it'll turn out for us as we walk different paths.
My financial advisor who has been handling my families accounts, HE even bought a home in FL. Why? Because when they crunched numbers, he was saving over 35% of what it cost him to live here. That's a nice sum of money to get back into your pocket. He even told us to leave as we'd do better all around. Another friend in SC, he moved from here also-another financial advisor. He's also not looking back.
I just want to live within our means again. I can't do that here-or further up in NY State. 300 resumes from hubby alone to companies around the state and he only had a few nibbles. So we are heading out of here. It's just not doable on a blue collar salary here these days.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellwood
We actually moved to upstate NYS when we retired, from NJ, where our property taxes were $11K. For us, not necessarily for others, financially it works. Our property and school taxes are $5K and $1.2K. We have a 2400 sq. ft. home on 3.5 acres. Our taxes are reduced by military exemption, STAR, etc. We do not get senior exemption due to income. There is no personal tax on vehicles, car insurance is half of what it was in NJ nor does my military retirement get taxed as it does in other states, and our pensions have a $20K exemption each.
I'm glad you found a living solution that's right for you I won't argue that but in reading what you wrote a couple of questions came up. First in moving to a rural location would it be safe to say that your homes assessed value is lower than what you lived in previously? I am assuming you were living in a NJ suburb of NYC or Philly. Second is it possible that the relocation to a rural area is the reason your car insurance has gone down, I know when I left the NYC metro my insurance dropped by over half. In looking at Kiplinger's State-by-State Guide to Taxes on Retirees has New York in their top ten least tax-friendly states for retirees along with New Jersey. They really don't make the top 10/best choice lists no matter who is publishing them. State-by-State Guide to Taxes on Retirees - New_Jersey -Kiplinger State-by-State Guide to Taxes on Retirees - New_York -Kiplinger
It maybe foreign companies, but they are hiring there aren't they? What has my area got? More retail, food and nails shops. Or maybe the 14 pizza places in our town alone. My daughter insured her car in NC, it was $300 every six months-for liability only on her 12 year old car. Back home now, it's running her $1200 for the same vehicle and coverage. Add to it they gave SpectraWatt a tax incentive here-and they tanked. Dutchess County isn't attracting business to bring back the area. IBM is laying off more here.
As for COL, down south they have a personal property tax. I know all about it as my folks moved here in the 50's from the NC/VA areas. Considering I am paying right now for 3 vehicles alone at over $3k a year for insurance-which is stupid since I have no accidents, ticket's or claims. My homeowner is almost $1K and I have to have a umbrella policy too because I have one 18 year old at home still which adds another 700 a year. My camper-which in NYS can only be used if I a lucky just 6 months of the year adds another $250. I pay a MTA $25 surcharge on all our vehicles-I've ridden the train twice in the last 15 years. I even pay it on my camper-which can't move unless another vehicle tows it. I also pay a $25 surcharge for my vehicles here now by my county for use of the road way. Um, thought that's why I paid taxes.
I'd never, ever live in a HOA. They are run by small minded bullies who never grew up. Anyone who wants to live that way are more than welcome to. But no one forces you to live in HOA. I have better ways to spend my money and it's not on that.
My salary might not be as high as here, but my taxes are almost 8K. Two houses we've actively looked into buying there, the taxes were $800 a year. That's a HUGE difference. Maybe if your are making bank at over 6 figures, yeah then you might be concerned. But when you are low on that totem pole like us, it's going to be more in line with our line of work and we'll have a nest egg again after we sell our home-we paid it off in 11 years and we are down sizing.
So if you are in a higher tax bracket, you'll be in a different boat because you won't make what a Westchester/LI/NYC salary is. Although a close friend worked in NYC for 4 years, and got offered a job in Davenport, Iowa at another 45K more-he's a CFO. COL is WAY less out there and he's enjoying life again. Not living on a train. So it's all relative to what you want out of your own life. No one can live it for you. Your life isn't like mine so you really can't judge how it'll turn out for us as we walk different paths.
My financial advisor who has been handling my families accounts, HE even bought a home in FL. Why? Because when they crunched numbers, he was saving over 35% of what it cost him to live here. That's a nice sum of money to get back into your pocket. He even told us to leave as we'd do better all around. Another friend in SC, he moved from here also-another financial advisor. He's also not looking back.
I just want to live within our means again. I can't do that here-or further up in NY State. 300 resumes from hubby alone to companies around the state and he only had a few nibbles. So we are heading out of here. It's just not doable on a blue collar salary here these days.
There is competition for those jobs and being in a right to work state, there isn't the same protection.
It isn't that you can't live on a "blue collar" income in the state, as COL varies greatly. It is a matter of getting a job and living with your means. That's not to say that you aren't doing that, but some people aren't honest about that as well.
As for taxes, what the list doesn't account for is personal situations like the one Ellwood laid out. This why I use this site which mentions info about military and other pensions, among other things: https://www.retirementliving.com/taxes-by-state
So, if a poster is a Veteran and there are things like STAR or military pension taxation info available, I would think it is good for to know.
There is competition for those jobs and being in a right to work state, there isn't the same protection.
It isn't that you can't live on a "blue collar" income in the state, as COL varies greatly. It is a matter of getting a job and living with your means. That's not to say that you aren't doing that, but some people aren't honest about that as well.
As for taxes, what the list doesn't account for is personal situations like the one Ellwood laid out. This why I use this site which mentions info about military an
So, if a poster is a Veteran and there are things like STAR or military pension taxation info available, I would think it is good for to know.
Problem is that's taking all we make. How can one pay off a house and be so cash poor? Central Hudson was ridiculous the last two months. Over $1000 for electric and gas. My lights I switched everything over to LED's. I keep the thermostat at 62. Groceries keep going up and I keep cutting out things. We buy no soda, chips or other fluff. I only get what I need to make a small healthy meal. I learned a few years ago how to feed a family of 5 on $50 a week, I can get real creative.
When we built our home, we didn't go over 1 1/2 times our income. At that time it was about $40K combined in 92. Our house cost $64K to originally build-a 2000sq ft cape as we did construction in steps. All said it was $110K for a finished home. Problem is we both lost jobs in 2008 & 2009. The salaries aren't anywhere near what we made back then. We've gone from 70K down to 45K. It's hard to make up that extra. I can't even land a second job around here, the ones I apply to want me to work until 1am. I get up at 3:45am now for work. I can't just sleep 2 hours a day. And when you have no more deductions as you've paid off everything except your taxes, what do you get? Zilch. My retirement will only be about $16K a year. It won't cover anything here in NYS. That's why we are going to move, take the extra from the house and invest it to grow a nest egg. And still live within in a budget.
The struggle is real for us. And we've tried so hard to change it. When you go through 3 interviews for one job and still get turned down time and again for jobs, what the sense of beating your head on a closed door. And since the Union who represents us is laying down and giving into a .5% raise over 3 years, we aren't even getting a COL increase. I now make less than I did when I started 5 years ago at this district. My health insurance has gone up substantially each year and I never see the raise I was given as it's more taken out of my check for the health. Last contract we got 1%, 1% and 1.75%. They told us the new one, take it or leave it. The teachers got 4%.
Last edited by CampingMom; 06-05-2016 at 05:11 PM..
Same here. Jobs? Not an issue for us as we are self employed which gave us the opportunity to live anywhere in the country we choose. Not only that we are against everything and anything that the Democratic Party stands for. New York was not a good fit for us politically. Besides, Cuomo after passage of the "Safe Act" once boasted that "people that do not think like him" are not welcome there. A petty vindictive little tyrant to be sure. Well good for you "Andy" we love spending our hard earned income, boosting the economy in a state that "thinks like us". Fortunately we left well before that travesty was passed. Call it what you want. That was nothing more than political retribution towards those that "do not think like him". What better way to punish your political enemies than to criminalize their lawful behavior and basic Constitutional right?
California another Progressive state and Attorney General Loretta Lynch are now looking to prosecute those who speak out against climate change. Bad enough they want to get rid of the 2nd Amendment, they now want to go after the 1st. Will the entire Bill of Rights now be up for grabs? Political retribution that's what it's all about. If you do not fall in line and "think like us" we will find ways to punish you.
Since moving we have been able to achieve a lifestyle that was impossible had we stayed. Much nicer home and neighborhood all at a cost that is about 1/10th of what it cost in New York. We are now able to buy things that we want and not just basic necessities. Instead of watching our income disappear into the giant cesspool of corruption which is New York's state and local governments. Which happens to be one of the most corrupt in the nation. This applies to both parties. Yet people keep on electing these scoundrels? I guess they love being ruled by scoundrels and tyrants?
I just thank God I'm out of there. There's nothing like the taste of freedom.
Politics aside, you are very lucky because you are self employed. Most people aren't. If I were self employed, and could do my job anywhere, I certainly wouldn't live in NY. And especially not downstate NY (which Peekskill for all intents and purposes is). You wouldn't even catch me visiting downstate NY if I were self employed.
I'd probably do exactly what you are doing- find a cheap, scenic location with good weather and no real jobs in the area. It keeps the costs low and the traffic/headaches down too. Consider yourself fortunate.
Phoenix is a barbarically hot collection of strip malls in the middle of brown desert, and if anyone who was working was going to move to AZ, it most likely would be Phoenix. Again, count your blessings for being able to live in the nice part of AZ my friend.
The question to leave NY or not is a personal one. You truly can live in NY cheaply if you want to. However:
1) It depends on where in NY. The NYC metro and anywhere close to it is dismal, expensive, and just not worth it. Even my financial advisor strongly advised me NOT to buy a house in the NYC metro. Based on predicted appreciation rates and for my situation and circumstances obviously, ymmv. Again, Dutchess, Orange, Morris, Suffolk, Rockland, etc you are and will always be looking at horrible salaries unless you work in NYC and insane property taxes on even a average house. For example: 2 Brook St, Sloatsburg, NY 10974 - Home For Sale and Real Estate Listing - realtor.com®
$400k and $13,000/yr on a Brady Bunch house in a low-end town. Enough said.
2) It really, really depends on if you can find work. The job market for me at least in NYS is abysmal. It seems to be for CampingMom too. Some careers just aren't that prevalent. That's not to say that someone else can't find a lucrative job in one of the major Upstate metros and live really well. Its not hard if you can land a job. I see homes in some of Rochester's and Syracuse's better city neighborhoods for $100k. And even taxes that are pretty low. And if you like cold and snow, all the better. If you have no kids or older kids or family ties to the area, all the better. You can find a clean city neighborhood and live quite cheaply. In this situation, NYS could be a viable option I think.
Problem is that's taking all we make. How can one pay off a house and be so cash poor? Central Hudson was ridiculous the last two months. Over $1000 for electric and gas. My lights I switched everything over to LED's. I keep the thermostat at 62. Groceries keep going up and I keep cutting out things. We buy no soda, chips or other fluff. I only get what I need to make a small healthy meal. I learned a few years ago how to feed a family of 5 on $50 a week, I can get real creative.
When we built our home, we didn't go over 1 1/2 times our income. At that time it was about $40K combined in 92. Our house cost $64K to originally build-a 2000sq ft cape as we did construction in steps. All said it was $110K for a finished home. Problem is we both lost jobs in 2008 & 2009. The salaries aren't anywhere near what we made back then. We've gone from 70K down to 45K. It's hard to make up that extra. I can't even land a second job around here, the ones I apply to want me to work until 1am. I get up at 3:45am now for work. I can't just sleep 2 hours a day. And when you have no more deductions as you've paid off everything except your taxes, what do you get? Zilch. My retirement will only be about $16K a year. It won't cover anything here in NYS. That's why we are going to move, take the extra from the house and invest it to grow a nest egg. And still live within in a budget.
The struggle is real for us. And we've tried so hard to change it. When you go through 3 interviews for one job and still get turned down time and again for jobs, what the sense of beating your head on a closed door. And since the Union who represents us is laying down and giving into a .5% raise over 3 years, we aren't even getting a COL increase. I now make less than I did when I started 5 years ago at this district. My health insurance has gone up substantially each year and I never see the raise I was given as it's more taken out of my check for the health. Last contract we got 1%, 1% and 1.75%. They told us the new one, take it or leave it. The teachers got 4%.
I'm not questioning your family's struggle, but like Vintage said, you can't paint a broad brush in regards to NY State in regards to COL because it varies greatly. Same with personal situations. That's all.
Also, Vintage, you can find solid suburban homes in the Upstate NY metros with a similar price tag. Usually, these are more urban or older suburbs, but you can find such or similar properties in safe neighborhoods and with solid schools. This will also come down to personal preference as well. Property Search Results
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 06-05-2016 at 07:13 PM..
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