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Old 04-10-2017, 01:36 PM
 
61,774 posts, read 87,276,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VintageSunlight View Post
Exactly my thought, ckh. This could affect the city of Syracuse in a big way. Who would attend Syracuse if a SUNY school is free? I just think this is an all around bad idea. Just make college affordable again.

The other aspect if this catches on nationwide, is that a Bachelors degree will be nothing special. Same as a high school degree is now. So, you will need a Masters to really stand above the rest. At a time when the country is moving toward less liberal arts and more hands-on work experience. It makes no sense.
These are good and serious questions/things to consider.

I think what may happen is that the type of student Syracuse University gets would be those that make above the income threshold and the out of state/international students they have been getting all along. I think it also has enough highly regarded academic programs to where people would want to get into. I also wonder if consideration for becoming a state institution would come up, as it wouldn't be the first time a private university went public(University at Buffalo) or become more like Cornell, where some programs are actually SUNY programs.

On the flip side, institutions like SUNY-ESF, Onondaga Community College and SUNY-Upstate Medical in Syracuse may see more growth. You may still get local city kids to attend SU via the Say Yes to Education program as well.

Your second part may be more reason for something like a Middle College Option and it was something that the Governor mentioned in terms of having a Bachelor's is the equivalent to having a HS diploma several decades ago.
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
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So now those students who meet eligibility requirements and get their degrees for free will be able to leave the state to find jobs debt free, that's a great gift the state is giving them. What happens down the road when the schools either have inadequate funds to cover the students or the law suits start because student X,Y or Z was not admitted due to full classes? Will funding be provided for school expansion where warranted or will Johnny not get his first choice school? And heaven forbid if an individual of modest means is denied.....

Better triple the Thruway tolls this along with the nuclear bailout are going to cost the state plenty....
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:46 PM
 
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If students leave the state upon graduating and do not stay in state for the number of years equal to the benefits received, the benefits granted would convert to a loan.

So no, students aren't going to just be able to leave debt free.

Really nothing else is organized with enough thought or clarity to address
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
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I would love to see how the state will ensure residency/compliance after graduation, will those joining the military be excluded or must they move back after their service?
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Old 04-10-2017, 07:43 PM
 
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I don't think it's a bad idea but I feel like a lot of people are going to go into nursing, teaching and engineering and the jobs might not be there when they graduate. There's already too many graduating nurses and they aren't having the easiest time getting jobs. I'm not sure what will happen if you add another couple thousand per year.
I can see this being a big issue in the more specialized degrees. Now he has to work on creating jobs. If that happens, it might not be a failure bc if you don't make much, you're not paying much in state taxes but now you can. So they are kind of paying for your 4 years, so you can pay them for 40.
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:49 PM
 
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Quote:
"The governor's office estimates that the program will cost the state $163 million"
Is this man crazy? Is he out of his freakin' mind? Does he even know how to use a calculator?

Quote:
Current full-time tuition at four-year State University of New York schools for residents is $6,470; at two-year community colleges, the cost is $4,350.--https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/03/nyregion/free-tuition-new-york-colleges
Quote:
Free SUNY tuition may start this fall for those eligible
Jan 3, 2017 ... Tuition is currently $6,470 a year at SUNY's four-year colleges, and ... New Yorkers to attend one of the state's 64-public campuses, which is the ...
That means that four years of college would cost each student $25,880. It's not unreasonable to think that out of a population of almost 20,000,000 that a million people might take advantage of Cuomo's offer. That comes out to $6,470,000,000 a year! Or $25,880,000,000 for four years! If Cuomo's $163 million were correct and a million people applied that would only amount to $163 per student.

His own office stated that: "some 940,000 families will qualify." So let's say that the 940,000 figure is correct that's still $24,327,000,000 for four years. Or $6,081,750,000 a year. Let's say they all decide to attend community college at $4,350 for two years that would come to only a paltry $4,089,000,000 or $2,045,000,000 a year. If a four year college tuition is paid for by the state. Why would anyone even want to consider attending a two year community college?

If Cuomo's $163 million figure was correct and tuition is $25,880 for four years. 163 million divided by 25,880 would mean that only 6298 students would be eligible. That's 6298 out of 20,000,000 people.

My God, this man must really think that people are that stupid and gullible. Good old P.T. Barnum was right. I'm just so glad I'm outta' there.

Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 04-10-2017 at 09:44 PM..
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker View Post
Is this man crazy? Is he out of his freakin' mind? Does he even know how to use a calculator?





That means that four years of college would cost each student $25,880. It's not unreasonable to think that out of a population of almost 20,000,000 that a million people might take advantage of Cuomo's offer. That comes out to $6,470,000,000 a year! Or $25,880,000,000 for four years! If Cuomo's $163 million were correct and a million people applied that would only amount to $163 per student.

His own office stated that: "some 940,000 families will qualify." So let's say that the 940,000 figure is correct that's still $24,327,000,000 for four years. Let's say they all decide to attend community college at $4,350 for two years that would come to only a paltry $4,089,000,000 or $2,045,000,000 a year. If college tuition is paid for by the state. Why would anyone even want to consider attending a community college?

If Cuomo's $163 million figure was correct and tuition is $25,880 for four years. 163 million divided by 25,880 would mean that only 6298 students would be eligible. That's 6298 out of 20,000,000 people.

My God, this man must really think that people are that stupid and gullible. Good old P.T. Barnum was right. I'm just so glad I'm outta' there.
1- I doubt even a 1/8 of eligible people will take advantage, even less will complete the program. A lot of low income people have many chances for free education but they don't care. Some young people don't want to go to state schools and the 16-25k isn't going to change their minds. How many hasidic families are in New York? I'm sure most of them qualify but I know none of them are going.
2- the cost of tuition isn't the wholesale cost.
3- they will start adding on or raising the nickel and dime fees that pad your tuition rates and aren't part of the deal. Dorm and food costs will steadily increase.
4- they probably project that the welfare rolls will decrease as graduation rates rise.

The bigger issues are how do the schools get ready for the influx since the program starts in the fall? Are they going to loosen the admission requirements for 4 year school? If not, they are going to have to build up the 2 year schools big time. Is there a moral obligation to not flood fields if you are forcing them to remain in the state?
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:30 AM
 
61,774 posts, read 87,276,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellob View Post
I don't think it's a bad idea but I feel like a lot of people are going to go into nursing, teaching and engineering and the jobs might not be there when they graduate. There's already too many graduating nurses and they aren't having the easiest time getting jobs. I'm not sure what will happen if you add another couple thousand per year.
I can see this being a big issue in the more specialized degrees. Now he has to work on creating jobs. If that happens, it might not be a failure bc if you don't make much, you're not paying much in state taxes but now you can. So they are kind of paying for your 4 years, so you can pay them for 40.
It looks like the teaching positions may be there, if this is correct: Tracking Local Jobs: For the first time in years, teachers are in
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:06 AM
 
3,957 posts, read 2,216,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellob View Post
1- I doubt even a 1/8 of eligible people will take advantage, even less will complete the program. A lot of low income people have many chances for free education but they don't care. Some young people don't want to go to state schools and the 16-25k isn't going to change their minds. How many hasidic families are in New York? I'm sure most of them qualify but I know none of them are going.
2- the cost of tuition isn't the wholesale cost.
3- they will start adding on or raising the nickel and dime fees that pad your tuition rates and aren't part of the deal. Dorm and food costs will steadily increase.
4- they probably project that the welfare rolls will decrease as graduation rates rise.

The bigger issues are how do the schools get ready for the influx since the program starts in the fall? Are they going to loosen the admission requirements for 4 year school? If not, they are going to have to build up the 2 year schools big time. Is there a moral obligation to not flood fields if you are forcing them to remain in the state?
No one knows for sure how many will take advantage of this program especially since it's being advertised and promoted. I guess you'll just have to wait and see. The fact still remains and by Cuomo's estimation is that 940,000 people will be eligible. Realistically though, I'm guessing that at least half of that will apply.

I just wanted to point out the absurdity of this program and Cuomo's calculations if in fact all 940,000 people did apply. As I've mentioned in my post:

Quote:
If Cuomo's $163 million figure was correct and tuition is $25,880 for four years. 163 million divided by 25,880 would mean that only 6298 students would be eligible. That's 6298 out of 20,000,000 people.
You can be damn sure that more than 6298 will be applying.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:37 AM
 
3,531 posts, read 2,055,847 times
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^^^^^
The point is that 25k in tuition is not the true cost to the state. It's the mark up rate.
If a car dealer gave away 100 25k msrp vehicles, his cost wasn't 2.5 million

Eta who knows what he's calling a family? I'm single, no kids and I make under the maximum, so I'm eligible but I have a degree so idk. The elderly couple on a fixed income are eligible. If we are considered families/households then you have to eliminate about 1/3-1/2 of people who are actually going to apply off the bat. There may be a million households making below max but how many households have someone who already has a degree or has no one who is going to college?

Last edited by hellob; 04-11-2017 at 08:46 AM..
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