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Old 04-12-2017, 04:16 PM
 
3,952 posts, read 2,214,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWRocks View Post
All of the cost have not been added into this equation. If this program is successful and attracts even more students in suny schools, next will end up being a multi billion expansion on all of the campuses. Again, even more taxes to finance that.
You've nailed it! They're not about to cram them in like sardines. Then what about class size? They'll need more professors, administrators even maintenance and groundskeepers.

When I was living in Peekskill, the annual cost of educating a student was $22,000 a year. I think the whole purpose of this scheme is to eventually turn state universities and community colleges into the public education system. This problem is not unique to New York. Once that happens the sky's the limit.

Not everyone is college material. It can be expected that those who attend and graduate college will receive higher paying jobs. That being the case they should be able to afford and pay off their student loans. Going to college is a personal decision along with taking on student dept. No one subsidized my car loan or car insurance for the vehicle that I needed in order to get to my job.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:49 PM
 
3,531 posts, read 2,054,845 times
Reputation: 6260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker View Post
Just a guess, but I'll bet you voted for Cuomo?
I'm from Indiana and haven't voted for governor since moving to NY. I'm not in favor of the welfare state but I'm telling you that it's not as much as you're thinking.
There's already been articles on how few will actually be able to take advantage.
Imo, it mostly helps the working class familes who figured they'd get nothing so they saved what they could. Since the tuition is free, it unties the money to help the kid stay on track to graduate in 4 years.
I'm going to try to use it to get another degree bc mine are worthless but idk if I'm eligible.
Either way, I'd rather pay for your college than your jail cell.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:20 PM
 
61,740 posts, read 87,239,875 times
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A program like this seems to be relevant to the area it is in and may be something local area HS students could pursue: Institute for Advanced Manufacturing at Clinton Community College

Made In Plattsburgh: Benefits & Challenges To Growing

https://youtu.be/9jtSFFFgIAo

Norsk Titanium to Build World

This could be a relevant program as well: Global Supply Chain Management Program at SUNY Plattsburgh

Or perhaps a program like this: https://www.mvcc.edu/academic-progra...rts-management

In relation to local jobs say here: https://www.hrapply.com/onellc/Setup.app

Perhaps this program: Optical Systems Technology Associate Degree | Academics | Monroe Community College

For jobs in the area like these listed here: Careers in Optics | Rochester Regional Photonics Cluster

There's this potential combination: Homeland Security

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/...ector-new-york

https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/...sector-vermont

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 04-12-2017 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:03 PM
 
3,952 posts, read 2,214,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellob View Post
I'm from Indiana and haven't voted for governor since moving to NY. I'm not in favor of the welfare state but I'm telling you that it's not as much as you're thinking.
There's already been articles on how few will actually be able to take advantage.
Imo, it mostly helps the working class familes who figured they'd get nothing so they saved what they could. Since the tuition is free, it unties the money to help the kid stay on track to graduate in 4 years.
I'm going to try to use it to get another degree bc mine are worthless but idk if I'm eligible.
Either way, I'd rather pay for your college than your jail cell.
It's not free, somebody else will have to pay for it. The money has to come from somewhere? In spite of any articles you may have read no one knows for sure how many people will take advantage of this program. There are two sides to every story. One can pick and choose whichever article that supports their position.

Obviously the higher education "cartel" is pushing these programs. For the most part they are part of the Progressive movement that feels that more government control is the answer to everything. It's an opportunity ripe for the taking to indoctrinate and poison young minds to their way of thinking. And why not? The "cartel" has the most to gain as they will be the chief beneficiaries of additional compensation through more taxpayer dollars flowing into their institutions.

Again, regardless of one's social status a person graduating from college will more than likely be earning an income that will be more than enough to pay off their college loans. If not maybe college might not be such a good idea for them after all. Just because someone attends college, it does not make them smart.

I'm not in favor of the government subsidizing anyone's college education regardless of income. If they are going to do that they might as well subsidize going to a trade school as many people are just not cut out for a college education. The government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers. I thought we're all supposed to be equal? I myself at one time wanted to be a long haul trucker, While I was working a 9 to 5 job during the week I attended a trucking school during the weekends of which I was paying $150 an hour. Maybe I too should have been subsidized by the taxpayers of New York? And why not? Being a long haul trucker is just as important a job as someone who has a degree in psychology. In fact it's even more important, it's certainly more grueling that's for sure. If no one drove a truck this country would come to a grinding halt, fast.

You're doing a great dis-service to those with lower incomes in assuming that if they don't go to college they will end up in jail. In fact most of the people with lower incomes are performing with dignity jobs that others would never do. Or should those jobs too require a college education? Thus putting them out of work altogether.

Since the degree you have now is practically "worthless". How many other "worthless" degrees will be bought and paid for by the taxpayers of New York? Now you expect the taxpayers to pick up the tab so you might be able to obtain what may end up to be another "worthless" degree? How many potential "worthless" degrees will it take before you finally settle on one that you can earn a living with? You're not alone there my friend there are thousands like you with that same attitude. Somehow you feel that others owe you something while you're out there trying to find yourself.

I know plenty of people I graduated high school with that went on to college and wasted the entire four years, ended up in mundane jobs and are now crying about their student loans. Well that's too bad, life's about choices. No one put a gun to their head and forced them to go to college and accrue student debt.

Last edited by Ex New Yorker; 04-12-2017 at 08:27 PM..
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:31 AM
 
61,740 posts, read 87,239,875 times
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Here is an article about a couple states that offer a similar program: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foo...ge-educat.aspx
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Old 04-13-2017, 05:07 PM
 
61,740 posts, read 87,239,875 times
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More: Video | LocalSYR | NewsChannel 9 WSYR
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Old 04-14-2017, 04:15 PM
 
Location: In the heights
26,343 posts, read 26,274,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex New Yorker View Post
Is this man crazy? Is he out of his freakin' mind? Does he even know how to use a calculator?





That means that four years of college would cost each student $25,880. It's not unreasonable to think that out of a population of almost 20,000,000 that a million people might take advantage of Cuomo's offer. That comes out to $6,470,000,000 a year! Or $25,880,000,000 for four years! If Cuomo's $163 million were correct and a million people applied that would only amount to $163 per student.

His own office stated that: "some 940,000 families will qualify." So let's say that the 940,000 figure is correct that's still $24,327,000,000 for four years. Or $6,081,750,000 a year. Let's say they all decide to attend community college at $4,350 for two years that would come to only a paltry $4,089,000,000 or $2,045,000,000 a year. If a four year college tuition is paid for by the state. Why would anyone even want to consider attending a two year community college?

If Cuomo's $163 million figure was correct and tuition is $25,880 for four years. 163 million divided by 25,880 would mean that only 6298 students would be eligible. That's 6298 out of 20,000,000 people.

My God, this man must really think that people are that stupid and gullible. Good old P.T. Barnum was right. I'm just so glad I'm outta' there.
I think your equation is missing that this is the last mile coverage--as in this comes into effect after federal programs kick in and other financial assistance programs (whether from a third party or something else) which for students at the bottom range will have much more or completely covered and so the state would cover far less or nothing at all. This is essentially not particularly useful to students who are poor or working class, but aimed pretty squarely at the middle class who would not receive sizable federal grants but would instead have received loans.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:53 PM
 
3,952 posts, read 2,214,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I think your equation is missing that this is the last mile coverage--as in this comes into effect after federal programs kick in and other financial assistance programs (whether from a third party or something else) which for students at the bottom range will have much more or completely covered and so the state would cover far less or nothing at all. This is essentially not particularly useful to students who are poor or working class, but aimed pretty squarely at the middle class who would not receive sizable federal grants but would instead have received loans.
I know, I know as with many government programs they will never cost the taxpayers anything until they do. If the state were to cover far less or nothing at all. Then nothing changes and there would be no need to announce such a program. If Cuomo's figures are correct and it will only cost the state a paltry 163 million. That's 163 million more that the taxpayers of New York will have to cough up. The question then becomes: When does it all end?

From my previous post:
Quote:
Again, regardless of one's social status a person graduating from college will more than likely be earning an income that will be more than enough to pay off their college loans. If not maybe college might not be such a good idea for them after all. Just because someone attends college, it does not make them smart.

I'm not in favor of the government subsidizing anyone's college education regardless of income. If they are going to do that they might as well subsidize going to a trade school as many people are just not cut out for a college education. The government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers. I thought we're all supposed to be equal? I myself at one time wanted to be a long haul trucker, While I was working a 9 to 5 job during the week I attended a trucking school during the weekends of which I was paying $150 an hour. Maybe I too should have been subsidized by the taxpayers of New York? And why not? Being a long haul trucker is just as important a job as someone who has a degree in psychology. In fact it's even more important, it's certainly more grueling that's for sure. If no one drove a truck this country would come to a grinding halt, fast.
I'm okay with having a third party paying scholarships or grants to subsidize higher education. Such as private corporations looking for let's say computer scientists and such. They will in a sense be paying to train their future employees. Sure, medical and dental schools are very expensive. But how many doctors and dentists are living out of a cardboard box? Veterans who have served in this countries military should be the only exceptions. I have no problem having my tax dollars paying for their higher education costs.

If a person does well in school getting straight A's, making the honor role etc. The chances are that they will go on to college, do just as well there and become very successful when they graduate. There's no reason in the world that taxpayers should be on the hook for their higher education costs. If they go on to become short order cooks at McDonald's because of a lack of jobs for rocket scientists then all that money spent on college goes right down the toilet.
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:53 AM
 
476 posts, read 242,085 times
Reputation: 300
[quote=TomC23;47810602]If this had existed before I moved out of NY I think I might have stayed. I would have loved to go back and finish my education. I think this is a great idea.[/QUOTE]

says the man that no longer lives in NY.
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Old 04-15-2017, 05:00 AM
 
476 posts, read 242,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xray731 View Post
There are many conditions to this bill that in the end will nullify the free tuition - now is the state going to send these kids and families to collections - who knows?

From what I've read: the student must apply for Pell grants, state aid, scholarships - to be eligible - after that the Free part kicks in - but with the following conditions - a 4 yr school - the student must have a minimum of 15 credit hours - the student must have a certain average to continue in the program - they must graduate within the 4 yr period with a degree.

That's one of the kickers as many kids I know have had to go 5/6 yrs as the classes they needed to finish a degree were limited and they couldn't get into the class.

The students then have to stay and work in NY in their field for which they received their degree for a 3/4 yr period. Moving out of state - exempts them from the free tuition and they will receive a bill - without a 6 month grace period - that they will have to pay.

These kids are also responsible for their food, lodging, transportation costs, books, lab fees ect so it isn't exactly free - Cuomo may advertise it as such but we all know there is most always a hitch when things are "Free".

As someone who helped with college tuition as well as my kids taking out loans - I'm envious just as I was with the 1st time buyers program when we didn't receive any consideration for buying and paying for our home with no compensation. I understand the philosophy but don't agree with it.

We really can't wait to move from this state and will do so hopefully within the next 5 yrs. It's a shame as NY is a wonderful state with lots to offer - unfortunately they nickel and dime you to death.
yup...dip**** is screwing the taxpayer AND the kids...way ta go Cuomo!!! Thats ok, the rest of the country will get a taste of the A** beating us New Yorkers get each year soon... when he runs for president.
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