Report: Younger people needed in Adirondack area (Albany, Beacon: real estate, hotel)

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Ellwood

I know you mean well posting all the job openings but I know a lot of people that after their kids graduated college did not want to come back here. In. other states, housing is much cheaper as are property taxes, several have no state income tax. So even if a job pays less, the cost all around is cheaper. Families are moving out to have a better lifestyle. It's all relative.

Costco wanted to move in to Guilderland, which would have provided a lot of jobs with benefits, not to mention a big box warehouse better than BJs and Sam's. They voted it down.

Not necessarily true about housing being more affordable and in many cases, even with the property tax rates, housing can/is more affordable overall.

States without income tax usual make that up in higher property taxes(TX and NH) or higher sales tax(TN). So, those states get you elsewhere.

Yet, Costco is in Camillus and Rochester. So, what occurred in Guilderland doesn't mean that other parts of the state weren't able to get one built. Don't get me wrong, I actually think that the NIMBY aspect gets overlooked as to why some things don't get done, but things just aren't the same across the state.

Like you said, it is all relative as to what "better" is and people have to figure that out for themselves. However, I also think that people may not know what is available in the area, because it isn't marketed or information is just not given.

[VintageSunlight]

I actually don't think the ADK needs a boost. This may have been true in 2019 but not in 2021. So many people are working remotely. And many, many people are looking to get away from it all. Plus, I speak for myself but I'd imagine many others- ADK's should remain wild. So many areas of VT destroyed by rich people chopping down trees to put up an ugly massive house, one that locals can't afford or even want.


Snow and ultra-frigid temperatures. This won't change anytime soon. I believe, that in and of itself can be a huge drawback that no amount of investment will change. Only the most pioneering of people will want to live where you can literally be snowed in for a week, several weeks a year, few to no hospitals nearby, spotty internet, etc. I've tried satellite internet, its too slow to Zoom (very choppy, lots of lag time) and if you're working remotely you'll definitely need videoconferencing ability (as I'm finding out myself).


Young people don't cook. They order food thru Uber and Doordash. Few restaurants or Doordash unless you're in Saratoga. Until recently, I had no idea how much they used these services (I've used them maybe twice, and both times to my hotel room when away on business). I lectured a 30 year old the other day like I was his Grandpa about dumb ways to spend your money, Doordash being #1 by far....


I think people will trickle in, but it'll be slow and organic and that's probably best...

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by VintageSunlight

I actually don't think the ADK needs a boost. This may have been true in 2019 but not in 2021. So many people are working remotely. And many, many people are looking to get away from it all. Plus, I speak for myself but I'd imagine many others- ADK's should remain wild. So many areas of VT destroyed by rich people chopping down trees to put up an ugly massive house, one that locals can't afford or even want.


Snow and ultra-frigid temperatures. This won't change anytime soon. I believe, that in and of itself can be a huge drawback that no amount of investment will change. Only the most pioneering of people will want to live where you can literally be snowed in for a week, several weeks a year, few to no hospitals nearby, spotty internet, etc. I've tried satellite internet, its too slow to Zoom (very choppy, lots of lag time) and if you're working remotely you'll definitely need videoconferencing ability (as I'm finding out myself).


Young people don't cook. They order food thru Uber and Doordash. Few restaurants or Doordash unless you're in Saratoga. Until recently, I had no idea how much they used these services (I've used them maybe twice, and both times to my hotel room when away on business). I lectured a 30 year old the other day like I was his Grandpa about dumb ways to spend your money, Doordash being #1 by far....


I think people will trickle in, but it'll be slow and organic and that's probably best...

I wonder how big this is in regards to the places/college towns in/near the region like Plattsburgh, Canton, Potsdam and maybe a few others?

[hotkarl]

Kids are so busy doing nothing they can’t be bothered with cooking or even picking up their take out. That’s why they love ubereats, doordash, etc...
But they’ll go to the sports bar. That they’ll do.

[NotEnufMinerals]

Young person here. From NYC, but went to college in upstate NY, graduated 3 yrs ago.

I would never live there. It's not just about a job. I'd prefer a career with at least some promise of upward mobility and everything about upstate NY just screams dead-end. We also prefer companies willing to invest, and by that I mean offering summer internships, providing mentors and supervisors who can oversee our personal and professional growths so we know we're on the right track, etc... and companies in upstate just don't do that. Everybody i knew at school did their internships away from upstate, in Boston, NYC, DC, etc... and ended up there after graduation. Companies in upstate are either unable or unwilling, so even if there are job openings, it smacks of "this is just a job" rather than "we care about your career and want to see you succeed." It's not a minor difference to us.

You're not going to win over any talented youth with horse tracks in Saratoga or wine from the Finger Lakes when their options include the tech corridor in SF or doordash/ubereats-friendly Brooklyn. But then your only other option is trying to attract low-skilled youth, begging the question...why even?

It's 1000% all about the right incentives. But first you have to ask, is it even worth it? Maintaining the kind of city that attracts talent requires a LOT of upkeep...which materializes in the form of new taxes and higher costs of living.

For lack of a better term/phrase, what upstate NY needs to do is really just "stay in its lane." As others above have already stated, it's the Poconos. Not Silicon Valley.

[VintageSunlight]

Originally Posted by hotkarl

Kids are so busy doing nothing they can’t be bothered with cooking or even picking up their take out. That’s why they love ubereats, doordash, etc...
But they’ll go to the sports bar. That they’ll do.

I see it the opposite. Kids (millenials esp) are so busy being ridiculously overworked. That's why they do Ubereats and Doordash. Corporations used to inherently understand that there was a limit to how many hours you could work someone. They also used to know that calling someone off-hours or on vacation was a no-no. I remember my first job out of college, and there was no way to reach me other than at home, which bosses knew not to ever do.


Hence why all these tech companies have "campuses" where you can get dry cleaning, food, exercise, etc done. They expect you to stay there from morning until night.



Now you are expected to be "on-the-clock" pretty much round the clock. In my experience, they fire the 50 year olds working 40 hours a week, to hire the 25 year olds willing to work 55 hours a week, have a "working lunch", with 2 weeks vacation (bring your laptop), 1/2 the salary, and no family/spousal interference. And we as a society allow this to happen because of fear.



I see it all the time. Its very sad. And we wonder why young people aren't marrying, the ones that do are divorcing at 50%, and most relationships are all text-based. But I digress. Carry on...

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by NotEnufMinerals

Young person here. From NYC, but went to college in upstate NY, graduated 3 yrs ago.

I would never live there. It's not just about a job. I'd prefer a career with at least some promise of upward mobility and everything about upstate NY just screams dead-end. We also prefer companies willing to invest, and by that I mean offering summer internships, providing mentors and supervisors who can oversee our personal and professional growths so we know we're on the right track, etc... and companies in upstate just don't do that. Everybody i knew at school did their internships away from upstate, in Boston, NYC, DC, etc... and ended up there after graduation. Companies in upstate are either unable or unwilling, so even if there are job openings, it smacks of "this is just a job" rather than "we care about your career and want to see you succeed." It's not a minor difference to us.

You're not going to win over any talented youth with horse tracks in Saratoga or wine from the Finger Lakes when their options include the tech corridor in SF or doordash/ubereats-friendly Brooklyn. But then your only other option is trying to attract low-skilled youth, begging the question...why even?

It's 1000% all about the right incentives. But first you have to ask, is it even worth it? Maintaining the kind of city that attracts talent requires a LOT of upkeep...which materializes in the form of new taxes and higher costs of living.

For lack of a better term/phrase, what upstate NY needs to do is really just "stay in its lane." As others above have already stated, it's the Poconos. Not Silicon Valley.

Where did you go to college? What industry are you referring to?

Also, Upstate NY and the Adirondacks aren't the same thing. Let alone being the Poconos.

What you mentioned is a totally different subject and would vary within Upstate NY.

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Where did you go to college? What industry are you referring to?

Also, Upstate NY and the Adirondacks aren't the same thing. Let alone being the Poconos.

What you mentioned is a totally different subject and would vary within Upstate NY.

The poster presented a clear perspective as to why the ADK would not be attractive to young people and you tend to paint with broad brush strokes and always in a positive light. Unless the kids is really into the rural lifestyle there really is no careers with any growth and upward mobility its just a fact. You can inundate these boards with all the news clips of this start-up and that potential growth and when the day is done the growth goes elsewhere and the start-up is 4 college buddies with a budget that qualifies them for food stamps.

It is what it is and those that are living there like their lives but any major changes beyond a new hotel or restaurant are pretty nil. Besides NY State is so draconian with their regulations & taxes any business looking to enter manufacturing would start up elsewhere.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by VA Yankee

The poster presented a clear perspective as to why the ADK would not be attractive to young people and you tend to paint with broad brush strokes and always in a positive light. Unless the kids is really into the rural lifestyle there really is no careers with any growth and upward mobility its just a fact. You can inundate these boards with all the news clips of this start-up and that potential growth and when the day is done the growth goes elsewhere and the start-up is 4 college buddies with a budget that qualifies them for food stamps.

It is what it is and those that are living there like their lives but any major changes beyond a new hotel or restaurant are pretty nil. Besides NY State is so draconian with their regulations & taxes any business looking to enter manufacturing would start up elsewhere.

No...I just said that the thread is about the Adirondacks and that it isn't synonymous with Upstate NY, which varies. I also mentioned that Upstate NY isn't just like the Poconos. That's all...

[hotkarl]

Personally, I want upstate to thrive, I want people to be happy and live a decent life.
But...not at the expense of it becoming like downstate.
Or other other areas for that matter, like what has happened in NC, SC, TX, etc for example.
You start attracting big business, you get big business types.

I’ve lived it. Big city investors came in because they saw dollar signs. Bought up all the prime real estate, ran local businesses into the ground, and hired very few “locals”, almost every last one brought in their own help from the city or wherever, and they would put them up in homes the company purchased. All under the guise of “buy local” bs.
The only money kicked back into the local economy was the property taxes they pay.
Bastards. And they just disrupt and turn life upside down for the locals. Buying ad space, lining the pockets of the media and politicians to pimp this hip and trendy tourism destination crap. It’s a horror show now. Myself and MANY locals have left. There just may be more transplants than locals at this point. So, be careful what you wish for.