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Living in Andes NY for a few years now and constantly surprised by it's beauty. The recent debate re wind turbines strikes terror in my heart.
How likely is this possibility?
A more important issue than wind turbines i think is the development and subdivision of lands in andes> There should be tougher development rules and regulations. There should be a minimum of at least 10 acres of land in order to build<Large tracts of land ie. the garriet estate should remain undeveloped or tougher rules for development instead of a possibility of a huge high class tourist motel. Cant see how this can happen due to the watershed regulations when I have to spend 25000 dollars for a leach field for my septic.
Welcome to the discussion NewFinish! From your post, it appears that you are in or around Andes? or at least building something with your septic field comment?! Funny you mention watershed, because-you do know the whole history of the watershed and NYC coming in a basicaly taking over and making the rules? Many folks up here are equating the Turbines with the past actions regarding watersheds and the eminent-domain power-lines battles.
Anyhow, there is a lot going on in Stamford/Andes/Bovina right now, as the battles have heated up and the Town Boards are approaching their final, perhaps deadly to some, decisions. Andes town board has a proposed ordinence presented to them in hand. But Andes has a few conflict-of-interest issues I believe. Stamford town board ALSO has a proposed wind ordinence in hand, and the town/area (includes Gilboa, Roxbury, South Kortright) is visably divided regarding the issue. The development in Roxbury/Stamford on route 23 is of the greatest concern-34 towers, each measuring 410 feet tall from base to rotary tip, because the belief is if this industrial development goes through, the floodgates will be openned to Andes and Bovina to puch the town boards to allow them to be developed.
Bovina town board, while initially progressive on their open meeting and wind workshops, has now pulled a fast one, has clammed up and has indicated through the sham of a town survey they sent out that they WILL allow turbines. Bovina has BIG conflict-of-interest issues as a town board member and planning board member have signed leases in the families for turbines.
It got real messy real fast up here in our little area of peace and happiness!
To stay informed and on top of this issue, these area do have Alliances tht have formed and that are watching the town boards and their decisions:
Sadly, regardless of watershed the energy companies are wooing town boards with false (IMO) promises of a few hundred thousand dollars in PILOT payments. What we get for that is clear cutting and devastation of our ridges and valleys, industrial development with the turbines and their concrete pads, the access-roads, the power-generating sub-stations, the power lines to hook into the grid, etc. If you are a leaseholder, you'll get a couple thousand per turbine on your land. THAT IS IT! The power does not remain local, no local jobs are created from the development, and the negative effects of the turbines are the town's problems-the energy companies eliminate any responsiblity to themselves in the ordineneces and contracts.
Don't worry about big tourist motel development, if the turvbines go up, NO ONE is going to invest in the area anymore-no second-homeowners, no retirees, no new housing, no motels. At least the aforementioned group support the local areas, in terms of shopping, construction, home improvement, and possibly jobs if a resort came in. With the turbines, the only benefactor is the energy company.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ah, but while yous till need them, it diversifies your power generation. And you still ahve to buy fuel, and burn it in a gas plant, the wind is solar generated fromt he sun.
And yes, tehre are ways of storing hte energy you produce to even out the process.... compressed air, redox batteries, flywheels.<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Well, obviously you are not one to let the facts get in the way of your opinion. Thousands of wind turbines going up, no viable way to store the energy that they sometimes produce.
I know, such a thin sham.....but hey, we are just dumb farmers confused by the big words of the big men.
Oy Vey, we are in trouble big-time. But , lawyers are being prepared and things will be done if the -on-the-take board pushes this crap through. The sham of a survey WILL help us in the end to prove that this was a joke to begin with. I again, thank you for your sympathy in this never-ending issue. I know you guys out there are dealing with the same propostions!
would like to ask all you pro-wind people to please provide me with some actual data that shows the savings in fuels or CO2 emissions. Not the estimates you see out of the industry, but actual fuel savings. I have searched for close to two years now and cannot find this data. Everything is estimates.........why?
Perhaps it is because the intermittant generation of wind does not allow you to turn off any other generation. Some pretty damning information coming out of Germany (EON Netz, largest utility in Europe now, 7000MW of wind energy).
I dont want to hear about offsetting diesel generation (instant on and off) because no utility generates grid magnitude power with these.
I think we would get more energy by burning the money our state is throwing away on this 100 year old technology . Wind has been used for electric generation for as long as water has...the difference is you can store water.
It is unfortunate that the wind development in New York is drawing mountains of money away from a search for real renewable power that can be depended upon when it is required.
So again, no equal to quotes, no equivalents, no should replace terms in the data you provide. End my two year search by pointing me to some real results
Please point me to a site that shows third party certified saving on coal, gas or nuclear........not equal to, measured savings
... over 60% of the oil we consume as a nation comes from foreign sources.... just shy of 40kw-hrs of power produced is the heat equivalent of a gallon of fuel oil..... wind mills averaged output is about 1/3 of there nameplate capacity ..... so if you have a mega watt windmill and average it out ---- you save gals per day.... (1000/40)x (1/3)x 24 = just about 200gals or fuel per day per mega watt of capacity........ Now how many turbines at how many megawatt capacity are proposed....... if it is 50 megawatts that's 10000 gals of fuel a day ...... every day.
If GE makes those wind turbines thats usa jobs and money spent here.... the build out usa jobs.... the oil not bought-- usa good to the balance of payments...... your not supporting the arabs and your not making the middle east and its wars important......and its green power......
if the country had built out renewables of all kinds ( solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, fuel efficient autos, fuel efficient homes) for the past 20 years instead of talking and fighting about not in my back yard ..... we as a nation and as a world would be better off........ chris kruger
.... I would love to meet others who would like to do something real with renewable energy whatever the source........ for the country and for ourselves....... chris kruger
JustSayNo, I went and checked out this survey you refered to. I wouldn't be suprised if it came out of the wind salesmens bag of tricks.
Navin, since you seem to be one of those that sees through the smoke screen, and are providing me a shoulder to whine on I pose these questions to you regarding the "survey", I mean excuse to pass the Turbines.
1) about 50% of the taxpayers have not received the survey-your thoughts on that?
2) What is your thought on the question of whether you are a full-time resident or second-homeowner
3) What is your thought on the lack of the ability to express "I am against ANY industrial large-scale turbine development in our town"
4) What are your feelings on the poor grammer and confusing structure, and hidden meanings, in all the questions?
5) Do you think, and I will leave my opinion out, that this "joke" is the curtain that the board is going to hide behind when they announce they are passing development? In other words, they will tabulate the answers they receive, using skewed questions, and state-the survey results clearly show that the town is IN FAVOR of "regulated" turbine development, so we felt, following the desires of the taxpayers, that we HAD to pass the development?
I am a cynical NY'er and I am convinced the board's mind was made up a long time ago, and they have been working on the right "excuse" to justify their actions. They don't realize that THIS will bite them in the butt, I think this peice of paper is excellent evidence for a lawsuit!!
... over 60% of the oil we consume as a nation comes from foreign sources.... just shy of 40kw-hrs of power produced is the heat equivalent of a gallon of fuel oil..... wind mills averaged output is about 1/3 of there nameplate capacity ..... so if you have a mega watt windmill and average it out ---- you save gals per day.... (1000/40)x (1/3)x 24 = just about 200gals or fuel per day per mega watt of capacity........ Now how many turbines at how many megawatt capacity are proposed....... if it is 50 megawatts that's 10000 gals of fuel a day ...... every day.
If GE makes those wind turbines thats usa jobs and money spent here.... the build out usa jobs.... the oil not bought-- usa good to the balance of payments...... your not supporting the arabs and your not making the middle east and its wars important......and its green power......
if the country had built out renewables of all kinds ( solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, fuel efficient autos, fuel efficient homes) for the past 20 years instead of talking and fighting about not in my back yard ..... we as a nation and as a world would be better off........ chris kruger
Ok ,Where do we start? Of the energy our country consumes 40% is attributed to the generation of electricity. The other 60% goes to motor fuels( gas, diesel, jet) and the heating of our homes and buisinesses. Nationally about 3% of our power is produced by burning oil. In fact we export more than twice as much oil than we use to produce power. So just what do wind turbines have to do with imported oil . P.S. If you do a little homework you will find that industrial wind power is anything but green.
Later, Navin
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