Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Fill a glass 3/4 full. That is representative of the lake in the spring pre Plan 2014.
Now add 1/4 cup of water. That is representative of the spring rains and snow melt pre Plan 2014
Now fill the glass to the top. That is representative of Plan 2014 spring lake level.
Now, add 1/4 cup of water. That would equate to the spring rains and snow melt, that are not unusual.
Does that make sense?
No, because the rains and snow melt during those months weren't usual...
https://www.nationalobserver.com/201...ding-emergency
From the article: "The International Lake Ontario—St. Lawrence River Board, a joint Canada-United States body, warned Tuesday that people who live near parts of the Ottawa River, Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River should prepare for “major coastal flooding."
The warning comes on the heels of one of the wettest Aprils on record that saw Lake Ontario rise 44 centimetres. Flooding has threatened hundreds of residences in the region, and more than 130 homes were evacuated in Gatineau, Que. across from Ottawa as of May 4.
Île Mercier, a small island off Montreal, was submerged by floodwaters, while Rigaud, a town in southwestern Quebec at the junction of the Ottawa River and the Rigaud River, declared a state of emergency.
“Water levels are going to go higher, because the inflows are still coming in more than we can release,” said Gail R. Faveri, an engineer with Canada's national hydrological service inside Environment and Climate Change Canada, and the secretary of the joint Canada-U.S. board.
"It's just too much water everywhere"
Inflows, such as snow melt from the upper reaches of the Ottawa River, continue to mix with a high volume of rainfall, adding to the torrent of water, she said.
Faveri’s board is in charge of regulating the flow of Lake Ontario into the St. Lawrence River. The main control structure for this is the Moses-Saunders Power Dam near Cornwall, Ont. It’s one of four dams between Lake Ontario and Montreal.
The board has been adjusting the flow every day, sometimes twice a day, since the beginning of April, she said, to try to provide maximum flood relief to people who live along the shoreline of Lake Ontario and downstream.
The dam hasn’t seen this much action since 1993, the last time Lake Ontario was this high. But the system can only handle so much."
Wait...1993 is well before 2014, yet there was similar action. Hmm...
https://www.northcountrypublicradio....ears%20or%20so
From this article: "Data collected by the International Joint Commission, which manages water levels on Lake Ontario, show a number of years when the water rose within 6 inches of where it is this year. First in 1952, again in 1973, and then in 1993.
Jane Corwin is the American Chair of the IJC. “This area floods every 20 years or so. It flooded in ‘93, it flooded in ‘73. So regardless of whether it’s climate change or any plan, chances are there are going to be future floods.”
So, again, this actually wasn't anything new, as there is information showing that there was record rainfall coupled with snow runoff and that this has occurred in the past(1952 and 1973, along with 1993).
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-18-2023 at 10:17 AM..
No, because the rains and snow melt during those months weren't usual...
https://www.nationalobserver.com/201...ding-emergency
From the article: "The International Lake Ontario—St. Lawrence River Board, a joint Canada-United States body, warned Tuesday that people who live near parts of the Ottawa River, Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River should prepare for “major coastal flooding."
The warning comes on the heels of one of the wettest Aprils on record that saw Lake Ontario rise 44 centimetres. Flooding has threatened hundreds of residences in the region, and more than 130 homes were evacuated in Gatineau, Que. across from Ottawa as of May 4.
Île Mercier, a small island off Montreal, was submerged by floodwaters, while Rigaud, a town in southwestern Quebec at the junction of the Ottawa River and the Rigaud River, declared a state of emergency.
“Water levels are going to go higher, because the inflows are still coming in more than we can release,” said Gail R. Faveri, an engineer with Canada's national hydrological service inside Environment and Climate Change Canada, and the secretary of the joint Canada-U.S. board.
"It's just too much water everywhere"
Inflows, such as snow melt from the upper reaches of the Ottawa River, continue to mix with a high volume of rainfall, adding to the torrent of water, she said.
Faveri’s board is in charge of regulating the flow of Lake Ontario into the St. Lawrence River. The main control structure for this is the Moses-Saunders Power Dam near Cornwall, Ont. It’s one of four dams between Lake Ontario and Montreal.
The board has been adjusting the flow every day, sometimes twice a day, since the beginning of April, she said, to try to provide maximum flood relief to people who live along the shoreline of Lake Ontario and downstream.
The dam hasn’t seen this much action since 1993, the last time Lake Ontario was this high. But the system can only handle so much."
Wait...1993 is well before 2014, yet there was similar action. Hmm...
https://www.northcountrypublicradio....ears%20or%20so
From this article: "Data collected by the International Joint Commission, which manages water levels on Lake Ontario, show a number of years when the water rose within 6 inches of where it is this year. First in 1952, again in 1973, and then in 1993.
Jane Corwin is the American Chair of the IJC. “This area floods every 20 years or so. It flooded in ‘93, it flooded in ‘73. So regardless of whether it’s climate change or any plan, chances are there are going to be future floods.”
So, again, this actually wasn't anything new, as there is information showing that there was record rainfall coupled with snow runoff and that this has occurred in the past(1952 and 1973, along with 1993).
And yet you listen to people who have an agenda and vested interest over an eye witness of decades with no agenda
Go to my previous post and do the experiment. Even a second grader could understand.
And yet you listen to people who have an agenda and vested interest over an eye witness of decades with no agenda
Go to my previous post and do the experiment. Even a second grader could understand.
No, it is called people with more evidence and information in regards to the topic versus some odd example not relevant to the topic and an opinion that has an agenda.
More: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle37511432/
From the article: "The floods would expose a vast gulf between the political cultures of the two countries. In the United States, the flooding featured political leaders who put local property rights above downstream and environmental effects. Open the floodgates, they demanded, with little regard for what it would do to millions of people in the St. Lawrence River valley. Republican congressman Chris Collins and Democrat New York Governor Andrew Cuomo led the chorus.
The IJC "blew it. I don't see how you can debate that," Mr. Cuomo told local reporters May 29 after touring the flooded areas of New York. "I understand they have a lot of concerns they have to deal with, they're dealing with Canada and Montreal and the St. Lawrence. I represent the people of the State of New York, and the people of the State of New York are getting the short end of the stick, right?"
Mr. Cuomo announced $27-million in aid for several hundred homeowners who suffered damage. By comparison, Quebec alone set up a $350-million fund to cover costs to public infrastructure and emergency aid to more than 5,000 homeowners. Several hundred homes were also flooded along the Ottawa River on the Ontario and Quebec sides. The Insurance Bureau of Canada reported $223-million in insured losses in the two provinces.
It's important to note that while Canada suffered 70 times greater financial losses than the U.S., Canadian politicians took a different tack.
The same water that flooded New York State swamped the Toronto Islands, closing them to recreational use for much of the summer and causing at least $5-million in damage and millions more in lost revenue for local businesses. Mr. Tory simply noted it was "mother nature at work."
On his many tours of flood zones in Montreal former mayor Denis Coderre blamed the rain, and did not criticize Plan 2014 or regulators. David Heurtel, then Quebec's environment minister, endorsed Plan 2014 and the board's work saying it is a "good example of balance between environmental, economic and social considerations."
Gordon Walker, a lawyer and the Canadian co-chair of the IJC, said Americans seemed to have misconceptions about the new plan.
He said the management board was operating on an emergency basis to try to save property through the spring. Plan 2014 had no effect on the disaster situation, nor did political considerations, he said.
"We have political people making a lot of noise and criticizing us for what we did or didn't do, but it's just on one side of the border," said Mr. Walker. "On the other side, hardly a word was uttered about Plan 2014 and I daresay more homes were inundated on the Canadian side."
Also to be fair: "Many critics of Plan 2014 point to its goal of allowing a wider range of water levels to improve wetlands as the source of their flooding troubles. The maximum water level at normal wet times will be six centimetres higher than the old plan. Plan 2014 predicts ongoing erosion damage of about $25-million per year to lakeshore property – up $2.5-million per year from the previous plan.
"It's not simply coincidence that these record levels are being surpassed during the first year of Plan 2014's implementation," U.S. congressman Chris Collins wrote this summer in a letter attempting to rally Congress to reopen the plan.
Mr. Walker said the launch of Plan 2014 occurring at the same time as the floods is a coincidence, and the real problem is New York State officials. "They permit people to build on sandbars and think nothing of it. It's a terrible situation," Mr. Walker said. "We didn't authorize them to go there, and it's not our job to tell them not to go there. Our job is to deal with water and balance interests as much as we can. There's only so much we can do."
Water levels on the Great Lakes tend to work on a 12-year cycle. For about six years the waters usually rise and for about six more they fall, according to experts.
Plan 2014 allows adjustments for climate change both on the high and low ends of the scale. IJC officials warn flooding rains, like those last spring, or extended dry spells, such as the one that persisted from 1998 until 2013, could become more extreme.
No one knows how long a new wet cycle might persist, according to Mr. Annin, co-director of the Mary Griggs Burke Centre for Freshwater Innovation at Northland College in Ashland, Wis. "We are entering a period of weather unpredictability and insecurity. These kinds of rapid changes in water level may be the new normal."
Mr. Annin said the politicization of water is not unusual and the governor of New York is "doing his job, making it clear to his constituents he cares." But politicians should dial back criticism, he said, because "this might be only a taste of what's to come in the future."
The key to avoiding escalating water conflict is to allow the IJC to use its expertise to decide the best way forward free from politics, he said: "This is the entire reason it was created."
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-18-2023 at 01:07 PM..
^And all of this, because Lake Ontario wasn't lowered in the fall, to allow for the spring rain and snow melt. Keeping the lake lower allows room for the excess water. You prefer to hear from someone who is PAID to tell what you are "hearing".
Go ahead and believe them, instead of someone who has experienced Winter Spring Summer and Fall on the shores of Lake Ontario for many decades. BTW, there has been considerable amount of damage to wetlands and other shoreline features, which their plan was supposed to help.
^And all of this, because Lake Ontario wasn't lowered in the fall, to allow for the spring rain and snow melt. Keeping the lake lower allows room for the excess water. You prefer to hear from someone who is PAID to tell what you are "hearing".
Go ahead and believe them, instead of someone who has experienced Winter Spring Summer and Fall on the shores of Lake Ontario for many decades. BTW, there has been considerable amount of damage to wetlands and other shoreline features, which their plan was supposed to help.
Again, since you have been on the lake for decades, can you explain the flooding/high levels that took place in 1952, 1973 and 1993 before the Plan 2014 then? Same in terms of the different explanations between politicians on both sides of the border.
Also, if you read the article from the North Country Public Radio, it does mention how the guy that had a cottage by the shore had a landing spot, then didn't have a landing spot for a while and it reappeared again. So, it looks like that is an example of the flux that occurs. https://www.northcountrypublicradio....n-lake-ontario
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-18-2023 at 01:08 PM..
If you examine this whole "green" push, none of it makes any sense, other than politically.
If climate change is indeed a man-made problem, more action is needed by other polluters, see At least China isn't persuaded,see China’s Xi Rebuffs Kerry’s Call for Faster Climate Action, for our changes to have more impact than a fourth-grade class collecting schoolyard litter.
If climate change is indeed a man-made problem, more action is needed by other polluters, see At least China isn't persuaded,see China’s Xi Rebuffs Kerry’s Call for Faster Climate Action, for our changes to have more impact than a fourth-grade class collecting schoolyard litter.
I believe in climate change. The earth has heated up and cooled down many times, long before we were here.
We are basically the only country who believes in this stuff anymore, with Europe backing down. China, India, and emerging countries going through growth spurts don't care, either. So why are our liberal politicians inflicting the financial burden on it's people?
I have NEVER seen or heard a plan for all of the "renewable" haha, energy and our complete conversion.
What we should do, is face the reality that it IS getting warmer, and how to prepare for that, and how future generations can survive, rather than this seat of the pants spending spree.
As usual a thread gets hijacked when its about an indefensible position. The thread is about "Casualty of "Green" concerns - Power outages coming to NYC by 2025, and maybe upstate too, report says " and now there is a discussion of Plan 2014 and Lake Ontario water levels to take attention away from the premise of the original thread. If you want to talk about Plan 2014 then start another thread and lets keep this one about Power Outages.
As usual a thread gets hijacked when its about an indefensible position. The thread is about "Casualty of "Green" concerns - Power outages coming to NYC by 2025, and maybe upstate too, report says " and now there is a discussion of Plan 2014 and Lake Ontario water levels to take attention away from the premise of the original thread. If you want to talk about Plan 2014 then start another thread and lets keep this one about Power Outages.
I am not sure what us this oblique attack on the OPs premise?
I am not sure what us this oblique attack on the OPs premise?
It isn’t. He is referring to how the thread became about Lake Ontario/St. Lawrence River flooding/Plan 2014 instead of the topic in the OP. It became a diverted conversation about that different aspect of global warming/environmental issues.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
