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The teachers and labor unions are successfully keeping any legislature from hitting the floor. *GASP* Bruno and Silver do not support a property tax cap. Of course not, it's about the paychecks...er...kids. Yeah, kids.
If we don't spend past the rate of inflation the kids will be hurt. Its all for the kids. The layers and layers of administrators are very necessary. Who knows what they do, but they can't be cut from the budget.
As a NYS Certified Teacher... in two areas of education... going into a third shortly... I have put more money into this job than I will most likely get back in regards to the blood sweat and tears required to educate th youth of TODAY... the hours I was putting in at home to create lessons, extra curriculars durring the week... Anyway- I have written on this topic a couple of times on here and instead of spending time typing I am just going to cut and paste....
" Let's put it into simple terms... Today's tuition at the college I graduated from is approx $30K- Multiply that by four years- $120K (and we aren't calculating the cost of living on campus- that is just the education). Now, keep in mind that NYS REQUIRES all teachers to attain a MASTERS within- I believe- three years of graduation... Now, I was lucky and my Masters was ONLY a mere $15K/yr (8 yrs ago)- that took two years... so that is another $30K you can add to the EDUCATION total- making it a mere $150K to go into a profession where you start at about $30K ($26K when I started 8 yrs ago)and the pay scale isn't that grand. I am in Tier Four... the lowest tier- if you do not know about the Tier System, I suggest you do your research. I will NEVER retire with the pensions you are complaining about... that was the BABY BOOMER Generation who will be given the GOLDEN TICKET. Also, you can take that $150K that teachers spend in order to EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN and keep in mind that most schools are cutting many benefits- ie I had NO Eye or Dental coverage as a teacher and I do wear glasses and I do not have the best teeth out there. I have a mortgage, children of my own, AND I PAY TAXES TOO- and if people out there honestly believe ALL of the taxes they pay go to Teacher Retirement you must be joking.... Do you realize I put money away for retirement as a teacher? It was actually TAKEN OUT OF MY PAYCHECK each and every other Friday! I earned what very little I will be getting in my retirement...Especially since I was the Yearbook Editor and put hours upon hours into each book with only $300/yr to show for it, I stayed late to help students when they didn't understand a certain subject, gave up my own free time for sporting events, school dances, fund raisers... the list goes on and the pay did not increase... I then went home and wrote lesson plans and corrected papers. Some might say my summers were my own, but let's be honest... when you get paid a SMALL lump sum in June you are counting your pennies by the end of August and are forced to take on a summer job... Just a little education on the LIFE of a TEACHER and why it matters WHERE they retire to is beyond me... why can't the live WHERE they want like everyone else? And I pay $7K in taxes and fully understand that NOT ALL OF it pays for teacher retirement... how do you like those sports your kids play? The art supplies in the classroom? New flute or piano? How about that brand new sod on that back field? Did a building just redo their floors? Add on a wing? Do your research..."
AND in response to THIS statement you wrote a while back...
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by rochacha Teachers have it made in New York State, so the problem is TONS AND TONS of competition for the TONS of jobs available. The NYS teachers union is one of the more powerful special interest groups in the state, so they get everything on a silver platter at the expense of the taxpayers.
I responded with...
"Wow, as an educator I find that comment not only offensive, but degrading. I have spent over $100K on my education, only to be hired in the lowest tier. If you are unfamiliar with the Tier System in the NYS Education field, I suggest doing some research. I will never have the retirement or benifits that teachers retiring today have. I was an educator in a rural part of Wayne County until I recently made the choice to stay home with my children and if I choose to stay home longer than seven years, all of that time teaching will be wasted as I will never see my retirement. As a teacher, you go in early and stay late, work at home correcting papers and creating lesson plans. It is expected of you to do much more work than you were hired for- clubs, coaching, attending dances and afterschool functions both on the weeknights and weeknds. Teaching is not a 9 to 5 job- not 40 or even 50 hours a week... with very little to no compensation for your time spent outside of the actual school hours. Also, it is not explained to you that you are a glorified day care worker in a lot of districts when you leave college thinking you will have 100% support from parents. Students have become lazy and parents are not involved enough to care, making the $36K you make a year (after putting in three years of time and a Masters Degree in tow) and lack of dental insurance not as exciting as you thought it would be at 21 years old. IF you are a teacher, you fight for your pay- begging taxpayers to realize you still have loans to pay off, a family to feed, mortgage to pay, and Teachers are the primary educators of your children... Why don't they deserve equal pay as someone with an associates degree after being forced to get a MASTERS? Don't get me wrong, I like teaching... if I didn't, I would have been doing something else with my education and talent... Teachers are a dedicated bunch... they have to be to put up with as much as they do from parents and tax payers alike."
Please, when you think you are helping everyone by FIGHTING to NOT help the teachers... you aren't helping anyone... especially the kids. Teachers are overworked and underpaid... They are... I put in as many hours at home as my husband did (very well paid man and puts in about 65 or much more hrs a week) and i was making a third of what he was. I have a Maters Degree and was paid less than many of my friends with an Associates... How is that right? A young teacher today will not be able to afford to pay their loans off... I feel very badly for them...
You posted your replies but neglected to post my response following that. I'd suggest going back to the thread and rereading it. Anyways,
1. I believe in the supply and demand model. If teachers had it so bad, then you wouldn't have such severe competition for the open spots.
2. NYSUT has 575,000 members. That is TONS of jobs to me. For perspective, according to the NYS DOL, there are 340,255 Science, Engineering and Computer Professionals, 324,610 Healthcare Practitioner Professionals, 321,280 Construction and Extractive Craft Workers in all of New York State.
3. If the younger teachers are getting sold out by the older teachers running the union, that is an internal problem with the teachers union. But it does not mean that the teachers union isn't a public menace to the average taxpayer.
4. State aid is increasing by record amounts and taxes still need to increase faster than inflation? Can anyone answer why?
5. If teachers were the primary educators of children, then why does family matter so much in the success of a child? I believe the parents are the primary educators of a child.
You posted your replies but neglected to post my response following that. I'd suggest going back to the thread and rereading it. Anyways,
1. I believe in the supply and demand model. If teachers had it so bad, then you wouldn't have such severe competition for the open spots.
First of all there is such a supply because the univesities are pumping these wide eyed students graduating with the hopes and dreams of finding a job... that is why MOST of them are leaving and heading South... Positions are being cut left and right...due to budget cuts... Every hear of Art on a Cart? It is more like Art in a Car these days and your supply closet is your trunk... a position I held for two years... SPECIALS (one of my areas of certifications) are the first to be cut if the funding is not there--- if tax payers say no... then I go...not by choice... but by CUT.
2. NYSUT has 575,000 members. That is TONS of jobs to me. For perspective, according to the NYS DOL, there are 340,255 Science, Engineering and Computer Professionals, 324,610 Healthcare Practitioner Professionals, 321,280 Construction and Extractive Craft Workers in all of New York State
Every teacher is facing the fact that they are now forced to teach an overwhelmingly insane number of students in the classroom... Due to the cuts in positions and the ever growing student population. THey NEED that many educators to keep up with the growing class sizes... There SHOULD be more teachers than they hire... Think about that... 575,000 teachers... out of how many schools in the state? For how many students? There are over 225 schools in Monroe County alone... Considering I graduated from Fairport High School with a graduating class of almost 500 kids... There are about 1500 schools in JUST NYC alone... with over 1 million students.... and add teachers to the LOW average of 20 kids per class room... AND THAT IS A LOW guess (more like 22-24 these days) And you don't UNDERSTAND why there are so many teachers in the system? What I don't understand is WHY the positions are being cut.... Oh wait... maybe it is the theory that all of the property taxes are going to pay a teacher alone.... hence the budget cuts... then the job cuts... OH> THAT IS HOW THE CLASSES GET OVER CROWDED!!!!
3. If the younger teachers are getting sold out by the older teachers running the union, that is an internal problem with the teachers union. But it does not mean that the teachers union isn't a public menace to the average taxpayer.
It isn't a UNION situation... the Tier System has been in place for YEARS... I fully believe the state Mandatory RULES for Certification are insane... The STATE has a lot to do with it... Get your masters, be certified 1-6... oops that leaves out Kindergarten... Please go back to school and shell out a load of cash so you can not only pay to take the test at the end of your course load but to teach one extra grade... It is rediculous.
4. State aid is increasing by record amounts and taxes still need to increase faster than inflation? Can anyone answer why?
I can say it isn't because the baby boomers are leaving the educational system behind... Once they all leave the tax payers will have a lot less of their money going to the younger teachers that are left behind... less pay and less retirement...
5. If teachers were the primary educators of children, then why does family matter so much in the success of a child? I believe the parents are the primary educators of a child
You would think... wouldn't you? But when you have disruptive children in your class and you call home to the parents and they tell you "When they are at school they are YOUR problem..." and that is if you actually reach them and/or they actually make a conference... Parents are not involved. In today's society they are too busy with the two jobs and the sports... or if they are single and raising the children by themselves a lot of the time it is almost impossible... unless you want to explain the assignment to the teenage sibling who plays mom after school... That is the reality of the situation.... Teachers have become GLORIFIED DAY CARE WORKERS... on top of educators.... Sad, I know... but very true... When you are the one who has to drag the kids to the nurse becuase they havent' brushed their hair in three days... or you are the one bringing in breakfast bars in the morning to make sure your homeroom kids start the day off with food in their system... then that idea goes out the window... parents are not the primary educators... sometimes not even the primary "PARENT"
Regarding spending, Massachusetts implemented a property tax in 1980, when it was among the highest in property taxes in the country. Now it is in the high 30's, but widely regarded as the top public schools in the country.
It seems from the conversation that you would prefer that I reword my statement that retired and retiring teachers were handed everything on a silver platter at the expense of current teachers and taxpayers. Unfortunately, those same people run the union, so this isn't going to change. I'm sure if these were state mandates, then the teachers union could change them if it wanted to.
Finally, I see that you were making a point about being the primary educators, not what I misunderstood as you thought teachers should be the primary educators.
It seems from the conversation that you would prefer that I reword my statement that retired and retiring teachers were handed everything on a silver platter at the expense of current teachers and taxpayers. Unfortunately, those same people run the union, so this isn't going to change. I'm sure if these were state mandates, then the teachers union could change them if it wanted to.
Finally, I see that you were making a point about being the primary educators, not what I misunderstood as you thought teachers should be the primary educators.
Yes, don't mean to be obnoxious... BUT that would be what I prefer. I do get upset when TEACHERS are bunched together as a whole and the entire bunch suffers becuase of it. It is very hard to defend the profession and the reason we deserve quality pay and benefits... it is a constant fight we are FORCED into... I am a member of the Union, but as a teacher you are doomed if you don't. There are a lot of messed up rules and some of the wrong people making them... I will give you that. I think, Rochacha, you and I are forced to agree that we disagree on many things in terms of Teachers and their worth in terms of pay and retirement... I will leave it at that...
the tier sytem stinks and people who don't know teachers will have a hard time grasping the expense of the job for little reward - it's not a position you make to get rich, it's a position of joy for most which also leads to the supply demand side
also demand doesn't necessarily equal drastically more wages - down here in phx we are in dire need of teachers and have many flocking from the midwest - wages aren't that great to start
i think the teachers union causes more harm than good though - for all teachers who complain about how rough it is you need to hold your representation accountable or else what are you paying them for?!
also the money needs to be spent more efficiently - there is a lot of resistance to change
you need to be smart with the money and taxing the community even further while bleeding money isn't a smart way to get ahead
A young teacher today will not be able to afford to pay their loans off... I feel very badly for them...
Years ago,(up to 15 years)..School taxes where not a problem in Nassau or the Island for that matter. No one complained. Teachers where happy as well as Tax payers. And we had the best Schools in the Country.
One of the two parents where able to afford to stay home and rear their children properly. There was little unruly children in the classroom.
Today,.the average tax payer cannot afford to either have children or afford to have a parent rear their children at home.
1/3 of my gross income goes to Property taxes.
While Lexus's, Bmw's and Land Rovers are packing the Teachers Parking Lot.
When I attend Schoold Budget meeting to vote,..it's either "vote for increase" or "vote for bigger increase."
My questions:
Is it fair that the Communties of Nassau County and NYS have no choice in tax decreases?
Why where School taxes NOT a problem 15 years ago?
When is it counter-productive for the NYSUT to exist?
If the average income on Long Island is 70k is 20% fair or too much to pay for General Taxes? If not, what would be fair?
I believe teachers should make good money,..and they should be Unionized,...However I don't believe it is fair to forcefully tax a Homeowner out of his wealth or lack of.
Being in bed with Paterson (NYSUT) creates a negative outcry to point fingers at Teachers when it's only human behavior to accept a raise when it's offered. I would!
Look,..Nassau County cannot afford to pay,...even before the housing bubble burst. We need alternative solutions.
Last edited by thepokerdepot; 06-06-2009 at 04:29 PM..
As a NYS Certified Teacher... in two areas of education... going into a third shortly... I have put more money into this job than I will most likely get back in regards to the blood sweat and tears required to educate th youth of TODAY... the hours I was putting in at home to create lessons, extra curriculars durring the week... Anyway- I have written on this topic a couple of times on here and instead of spending time typing I am just going to cut and paste....
" Let's put it into simple terms... Today's tuition at the college I graduated from is approx $30K- Multiply that by four years- $120K (and we aren't calculating the cost of living on campus- that is just the education). Now, keep in mind that NYS REQUIRES all teachers to attain a MASTERS within- I believe- three years of graduation... Now, I was lucky and my Masters was ONLY a mere $15K/yr (8 yrs ago)- that took two years... so that is another $30K you can add to the EDUCATION total- making it a mere $150K to go into a profession where you start at about $30K ($26K when I started 8 yrs ago)and the pay scale isn't that grand. I am in Tier Four... the lowest tier- if you do not know about the Tier System, I suggest you do your research. I will NEVER retire with the pensions you are complaining about... that was the BABY BOOMER Generation who will be given the GOLDEN TICKET. Also, you can take that $150K that teachers spend in order to EDUCATE YOUR CHILDREN and keep in mind that most schools are cutting many benefits- ie I had NO Eye or Dental coverage as a teacher and I do wear glasses and I do not have the best teeth out there. I have a mortgage, children of my own, AND I PAY TAXES TOO- and if people out there honestly believe ALL of the taxes they pay go to Teacher Retirement you must be joking.... Do you realize I put money away for retirement as a teacher? It was actually TAKEN OUT OF MY PAYCHECK each and every other Friday! I earned what very little I will be getting in my retirement...Especially since I was the Yearbook Editor and put hours upon hours into each book with only $300/yr to show for it, I stayed late to help students when they didn't understand a certain subject, gave up my own free time for sporting events, school dances, fund raisers... the list goes on and the pay did not increase... I then went home and wrote lesson plans and corrected papers. Some might say my summers were my own, but let's be honest... when you get paid a SMALL lump sum in June you are counting your pennies by the end of August and are forced to take on a summer job... Just a little education on the LIFE of a TEACHER and why it matters WHERE they retire to is beyond me... why can't the live WHERE they want like everyone else? And I pay $7K in taxes and fully understand that NOT ALL OF it pays for teacher retirement... how do you like those sports your kids play? The art supplies in the classroom? New flute or piano? How about that brand new sod on that back field? Did a building just redo their floors? Add on a wing? Do your research..."
AND in response to THIS statement you wrote a while back...
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by rochacha Teachers have it made in New York State, so the problem is TONS AND TONS of competition for the TONS of jobs available. The NYS teachers union is one of the more powerful special interest groups in the state, so they get everything on a silver platter at the expense of the taxpayers.
I responded with...
"Wow, as an educator I find that comment not only offensive, but degrading. I have spent over $100K on my education, only to be hired in the lowest tier. If you are unfamiliar with the Tier System in the NYS Education field, I suggest doing some research. I will never have the retirement or benifits that teachers retiring today have. I was an educator in a rural part of Wayne County until I recently made the choice to stay home with my children and if I choose to stay home longer than seven years, all of that time teaching will be wasted as I will never see my retirement. As a teacher, you go in early and stay late, work at home correcting papers and creating lesson plans. It is expected of you to do much more work than you were hired for- clubs, coaching, attending dances and afterschool functions both on the weeknights and weeknds. Teaching is not a 9 to 5 job- not 40 or even 50 hours a week... with very little to no compensation for your time spent outside of the actual school hours. Also, it is not explained to you that you are a glorified day care worker in a lot of districts when you leave college thinking you will have 100% support from parents. Students have become lazy and parents are not involved enough to care, making the $36K you make a year (after putting in three years of time and a Masters Degree in tow) and lack of dental insurance not as exciting as you thought it would be at 21 years old. IF you are a teacher, you fight for your pay- begging taxpayers to realize you still have loans to pay off, a family to feed, mortgage to pay, and Teachers are the primary educators of your children... Why don't they deserve equal pay as someone with an associates degree after being forced to get a MASTERS? Don't get me wrong, I like teaching... if I didn't, I would have been doing something else with my education and talent... Teachers are a dedicated bunch... they have to be to put up with as much as they do from parents and tax payers alike."
Please, when you think you are helping everyone by FIGHTING to NOT help the teachers... you aren't helping anyone... especially the kids. Teachers are overworked and underpaid... They are... I put in as many hours at home as my husband did (very well paid man and puts in about 65 or much more hrs a week) and i was making a third of what he was. I have a Maters Degree and was paid less than many of my friends with an Associates... How is that right? A young teacher today will not be able to afford to pay their loans off... I feel very badly for them...
Chief! We ARE BROKE! THERE IS NO MORE MONEY. Go teach in CHINA please.
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I am just gonna copy and paste...
