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My wife and I will be moving there late summer/early fall this year. I have found a position apprenticing in a winery/vineyard. My wife and I are just under 30, and have a 4 year old daughter. I'm filipino, my wife is very irish, and naturally our daughter is mixed. The winery is in Burdett, but on the off season I will not be paid, and will need to find a fulltime job until the next harvest for income.
For areas to live we have been looking at Watkins Glen, Corning, Montour Falls, Horseheads, Odessa, etc. Basically places that would be in the middle of the winery, and Ithaca in case we need to work in Ithaca.
One of my questions is, how are the areas i've mentioned, and the areas around them? Are they nice family communties? we are looking for such. Will we be accepted? No insult intended but for a mixed couple its a very real, necessary question. I dont ever want to move my family someplace that would be a problem in that respect. Gangs, crimes, drugs? How are the schools?
How/where are the jobs? Like i said i've looked at Ithaca, and the person who operates the winery ill be working under suggested corning as well, for work on the off season. I see the unemployment is low, but i look at the jobs out, and its not much. But then again, i spoke w/ a temp agency out there, and they say they have lots of listings, and w/ my resume i shouldnt have a problem, so i hope she wasnt bs'ing me.
Basically, we want to make sure wherever we move to is welcoming, kind, and has a strong sense of community. Basically all the things you think of when the average person thinks of upstate NY. What banks are in that area? I have BofA and WAMU accounts, but none of them are anywhere close to the cities were looking at to live.
Thanks ahead of time, any help would be appreciated.
Do some searching of this forum for 'upstate'- in the recent past there have been some long and very informative threads about upstate NY and some in particular about Ithaca, etc. I think you've got very little to worry about as far as acceptance goes- yes, upstate NY is a bit homogenous overall, but although somewhat conservative the people are not narrow-minded. If anything you may get some curious looks out in the sticks due to novelty but not hostility.
Of the towns you mention, I only really know Ithaca well. I think it is a great little city, and probably one of the most progressive cities in the country. There are a lot of interesting things going on there, very 'family' oriented (and a braod and inclusive notion of what a family is) and the whole region is quite beautiful.
Where are you coming to upstate NY from? Might help people pipe in if they know what to compare and contrast based on where you are now.
we're coming from southern california. my wife and i have never really felt at home here as far as attitude is concerned. People have always though we were from the midwest w/ how open and nice we are LOL. Besides that we don't really care about the biggest house, biggest car, biggest paycheck, competing with the jones'...to hell with all that. We just a life where we are comfortable, and have 'enough', like that spam email i'm sure everyone has received at one point or another. And with our attitude, we are kind of the black sheeps of the region.
THis is kind of why we are moving. I've never been a corporate guy, and all these same old jobs i keep doing do nothing to fulfill me. I hate all the CYA, and buttkissing that goes on, and the backstabbing mentality. But I've been doing this since god knows when, and when you have a wife and daughter, you kind of do what the for sure thing is..to keep the money steadily coming in. Well we're both finally fed up with it, going upstate to pay my dues in the industry working and getting to know the vineyard/winery process, and hope to one day open my own winery...I'm more at home with more physical labor.
We can't do this in CA because well, itd be kind of dumb to take a HUGE hit in pay and still live here while i work for a winery making close to nothing. Cost of living is still the same while im making tons less. But if we move to upstate ny, I'll have no house payment to worry about, no debt, nothing..so i can afford to take the hit in pay, and also the cost of living is much less.
I live in Chicago but have visited my family in Ithaca every month or so for the past couple of years, so I feel like I know the area somewhat. I really like Ithaca and would move there if I knew my kids would be living there permanently. (My SIL is at Cornell but only for about another year.) The attitudes are progressive and alternative. There are good restaurants, affordable housing, culture, museums, beautiful state parks and outdoor activities, beautiful scenery, a food co-op, the Wonderful Wegman's, and a fabulous Farmer's Market.
The shopping isn't great, according to my daughter who lives there. There's only one large dept store. No Macy's. There's one shopping mall. The town only just got a Wal Mart last year. Ithacans seem to prefer Mom and Pop shops. (None of this matters to me, but it's important to some people.)
Two things to watch out for: The property taxes are even higher than the Chicago suburb I live in. I was quoted a mil rate of $39 not long ago, but you'd better doublecheck that. OUr friends who are buying in the area are not buying houses in Ithaca, preferring to go outside of town -- Freeville, Watkins Glen, etc. -- to avoid the high prop taxes. Second thing: If you do go out of town to buy housing, doublecheck on the possibility of nearby wind farms, which are reportedly planned in the area (altho I've yet to see one).
It's a beautiful area. We find the people very friendly. DD is in the restaurant biz, so we are making friends with chefs and vintners. A vineyard is the first place I'd look for work if I were moving there, too.
CBaillo-
If you haven't already and you are able to, visit the area and do a little travelling around upstate NY. It is going to be radically different from SoCal! Four seasons (summer, fall, winter and MUD....), significant rain and overall a quite different 'aesthetic' (but it sounds like that is something you are looking for). I've travelled pretty extensively around the US and around the world, and while upstate NY doesn't rate as the most spectacular in any one way (ie. best weather, most stunning scenery, economy, culture, etc.), in the aggregate it comes out to be pretty great. Ideally you ought to be visiting right now so weather-wise you can see it at it's worst- things are pretty brown and grey and rather wet, but it only gets better from here. Later spring, summer and most of fall are very green and even lush.
Of course there is some amount of 'keeping up with the Joneses' anywhere you go in the US- it's the 'american way,' but you will find much less of it in upstate NY than many other places. The towns and cities in the area you're considering tend to drop off quickly to woods or farms without a lot of 'sprawl,' which seems to be where the 'keeping up' sort of attitude thrives.
As you no doubt know, the US wine industry is practically booming now. I don't know how much of that boom is throwing heat to upstate NY, but it has to be benefitting to some degree. I do think upstate NY is well positioned to benefit from a growing interest in small-scale organics and relocalization.
And I agree with Carol- look into the property taxes (I think overall NY has some of the highest property taxes in the nation) and wind developments are a big issue for land/homeowners. You can search the forum for tons of info on that.
thanks for the heads up guys. Dont worry i'm prepared for the weather....my wife and i both hate heat and have always been in hell in socal, because of that. We love when winter hits, when we can go to the mountains constantly when it snows, we love being in snow, and we love the rain. And we are definitely looking for distinct seasons...here in Socal, the summer usually extends past all other seasons, and then theres a brief spring.
I've done my research on the wine industry up there...it's perfect for what I'm looking for. Some great wine is made up there, mostly growing local grape varieties, because thats what the people in the area prefer, but have had great success with some of the great wine grapes. Also, when I do open my own vineyard/winery one day, this is the area to do it. Upstate NY is the cheapest land for grape growing....oregon, washington, and california are all overpriced now, and NY has managed to stay under the radar, but its day will come im almost 100% positive.
We are going to go up there some time in June, to meet with my future harvest employer, and to check out the area, see my wifes best friend, and getting a feel for the different cities.
We plan to rent as soon as we touch down, and buying a house only when we decide where exactly we want to live up there. The high property taxes dont really scare me off (and i've heard about how high they get), because I won't have a mortgage payment, because the house will be fully paid off...so the only thing i will be paying is the property tax, which will benefit me at tax time anyway.
Any other info would be great as well..thanks so much for whats already been offered.
CBiallo - sounds like you're more than ready for the move. Ithaca does have a taxing problem with taxes (sorry for the attempt at humor). And it is in no way perfect, but I think it will fit your requirements. Family friendly, good schools, very comsmopolitan for a small city, and within a fairly painless drive of the big east coast cities.
As far as community tolerance goes, Ithaca is quite diverse, especially for upstate. You will like to know the largest percentage of minorities is Asian (over 13%). I don't think mixed race couples cause a 2nd look or seem at all unusual.
Also very sounds to me that you'll much enjoy and appreciate the area, and quickly feel very much at home there.
Ithaca would certainly be a great choice. It's got to be one of the top towns in the country--at least so far as I've seen and heard about from many people with very good values.
If you want a smaller town, though, and an even slower pace--very serene--check out Trumansburg, which is just a bit north of Ithaca. Nice marriage of old-fashioned small-town America (of the big-hearted, not close-minded, sort) and college-town openness. My wife and I have checked it out twice, and each time were impressed with the many kids--of a pretty nicely mixed ethnic/racial variety--riding their bikes around, playing in yards, etc., and getting along just fine. Looked like a Norman Rockwell scene with some extra color added. Made us proud of our country again.
Another very cozy town would be Homer. Probably not quite as open-minded as Trumansburg, but certainly not a small-minded place, either. Very warm and friendly people, an ice-cream shop on Main St., very handsome homes, beautiful country all around, etc.
I think that one of the things that really marks Upstate NY *as* Upstate is the general, and generally very reliable, decency of most of its people. If you're a good person, then you're pretty reliably accepted and admired as a good person yourself. That's the litmus test I've seen most people having up there, and it's stronger than any stupid ideas or anxieties people have about race, etc. Bear in mind, too, that Upstate accepted many, many immigrants for many, many generations. It's not uncommon to see farmers with Italian or Polish or Slavic names up there. So a sense of "Being American is a matter of character, of neighborly values, not skin-color" is quite common up there.
Also, though it's considerably East of where you're talking about, look into Cooperstown, one of the country's truly great communities in every way.
And if home prices are too steep there, Oneonta might be a good second-choice. It's another college town, but not overwhelmingly so. Still retains a good small-town feel. Very unpretentious, yet has a lot of truly handsome homes and neighborhoods. (Just be sure NOT to buy/rent a home too near the college students--ANYwhere you go.)
Two other very liveable, handsome college towns in the more eastern region are Clinton and Hamilton. More pricey than Oneonta, and perhaps more snooty, but certainly very family-oriented places to live, with lots of cultural stuff going on and fine schools.
Best of luck on your move! My wife and I and our four kids will be your neighbors (at least in terms of being fellow Upstaters) just as soon as we can escape our own glooms here in SW Virginia, exactly because Upstate NY is such a great place to raise a family and live a BALANCED life. I hope you'll post about your experiences.
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