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True but the market has returned on average through history more than 7% a year. Certain people will throw the pensions under the bus saying things like "unsustainable" or "underfunded" during recessions or bad times but refuse to acknowledge the truth when it doesnt fit their agenda. It is an agenda based on emotions not the fact unless the facts suit them.
My favorite is this "We cannot afford to pay these pensions"
Truth is yes we can more than afford to. Fact
Translation is " I dont have a pension neither should you" Emotion
Wrong, we cannot afford to pay the pensions because over time the tax payer pays more into the pension fund to make up the difference between the estimated liability and the market returns. Pensions aren't affordable - if they were, they would still exist in the private sector instead of the defined contribution plans.
I didn't miss any point. A fund can return 100% year after year and still be underfunded. You are missing a dimension of this, and hence missing the point.
Doom and gloom over pensions is that, despite one year of very good market returns (by the way, the pension lost 26% the year before ), the pension still requires a tremendous amount of funding by the taxpaper.
If you think the money management of the pension fund is so great, why not have a defined contribution for each civil servant and let their money go into the pension fund? Yea, I thought so. Keep up your crusade for the civil servants
My crusade is for the working class. Civil servants do contribute into the pension fund as well so not sure what you are barking at. A 100% return year after year and the fund still be underfunded when its liabilities are currently sitting at less than 9% of its assets. You are being silly.
Average return according to comptroller is over 8% BTW
My crusade is for the working class. Civil servants do contribute into the pension fund as well so not sure what you are barking at. A 100% return year after year and the fund still be underfunded when its liabilities are currently sitting at less than 9% of its assets. You are being silly.
Average return according to comptroller is over 8% BTW
Civil servants are only a small % of the total working class. If your crusade is truly for the working class you are doing a terrible job.
I'm not being silly, it's an exaggeration used to show a point. You cannot simply state "the pension fund returned 26% and because of that it is over funded" because it doesn't have to be true. Let's deal in facts only, ok?
Not all civil servants contribute to the pension fund, and I'll say it again:
If pensions were cheaper than defined contribution, why are pensions being phased out in the private sector?
Civil servants are only a small % of the total working class. If your crusade is truly for the working class you are doing a terrible job.
I'm not being silly, it's an exaggeration used to show a point. You cannot simply state "the pension fund returned 26% and because of that it is over funded" because it doesn't have to be true. Let's deal in facts only, ok?
Not all civil servants contribute to the pension fund, and I'll say it again:
If pensions were cheaper than defined contribution, why are pensions being phased out in the private sector?
One point of disagreement and one not:
Pensions are being phased out of the private sector because stockholders demand more profits and Executives get paid a lot more than they did when pensions were the norm in big companies, so the money had to come from somewhere, and it came of the "backs of the working guy", like when Northrop execs raided Grumman's pension fund so that they could reap huge bonuses out of what was basically a theft, a scenario that played out in many companies all over the country.
Sorry to burst your bubble. For every time you try to point out that companies just do these kind of things to be "competitive", I can point you to where someone who was making a lot of money decided they wanted to make a lot MORE money and stuck it to everyone else.
As for the other point:
I've heard the argument before that we have to keep paying civil servants, in the case of the discussions I've had the civil servants were usually NCPD or SCPD, in order to keep some working class jobs paying a living wage on LI. If that isn't the most self serving and dishonest load of BS I've every heard.....
Like the cops really care how much the construction guy is struggling while they're pulling 140K a year and retiring in 20 years. They just got a raise while employment on LI is stagnant and good paying jobs are hard to come by. "We need to keep cops and teachers rich because they are the only working class jobs left."
Pensions are being phased out of the private sector because stockholders demand more profits and Executives get paid a lot more than they did when pensions were the norm in big companies, so the money had to come from somewhere, and it came of the "backs of the working guy", like when Northrop execs raided Grumman's pension fund so that they could reap huge bonuses out of what was basically a theft, a scenario that played out in many companies all over the country.
Sorry to burst your bubble. For every time you try to point out that companies just do these kind of things to be "competitive", I can point you to where someone who was making a lot of money decided they wanted to make a lot MORE money and stuck it to everyone else.
As for the other point:
I've heard the argument before that we have to keep paying civil servants, in the case of the discussions I've had the civil servants were usually NCPD or SCPD, in order to keep some working class jobs paying a living wage on LI. If that isn't the most self serving and dishonest load of BS I've every heard.....
Like the cops really care how much the construction guy is struggling while they're pulling 140K a year and retiring in 20 years. They just got a raise while employment on LI is stagnant and good paying jobs are hard to come by. "We need to keep cops and teachers rich because they are the only working class jobs left."
Give me a break.
My point on the pensions is that it is cheaper to offer employees defined contribution instead of a pension. Ninja would have you think that because the NYS pension plan does so well, it's cheaper or just as cheap for the tax payer to give civil servants pensions, which is utter nonsense.
Also, your language of companies "sticking it" to the workers is funny. When you want a cheaper cheeseburger, do you consider it "sticking it" to Burger King if you go to Wendy's? What's wrong with someone getting the same value or cheaper cost? If their overall pay structure were garbage, no one would work for them.
Pensions are being phased out of the private sector because stockholders demand more profits and Executives get paid a lot more than they did when pensions were the norm in big companies, so the money had to come from somewhere, and it came of the "backs of the working guy", like when Northrop execs raided Grumman's pension fund so that they could reap huge bonuses out of what was basically a theft, a scenario that played out in many companies all over the country.
.
Hmm, Same thing happened at Trans World Airlines. By law pensions had to be 90% funded. All that untouchable cash was killing the TWA execs, (even though they were still profiting). They petitioned Congre$$ to be able to tap into the pension fund to invest in the airline, making it more valuable and making the pension fund stronger in the end. A win win, it was sold as.
Enter the corporate raiders (Carl Ichaan) sold off the compaines assets (to his own entities) and the leased the equipment back to TWA. Squandered the companies assets (including the pension fund.) Fast forward to today. There is no more TWA, their employees pension is dumped into the PBGC, and people who worked there for 30 years have to look forward to a few hundred dollars a month. And Mr Ichaan?? Oh the poor TWA execs, how that pension bankrupted them.
Hmm, Same thing happened at Trans World Airlines. By law pensions had to be 90% funded. All that untouchable cash was killing the TWA execs, (even though they were still profiting). They petitioned Congre$$ to be able to tap into the pension fund to invest in the airline, making it more valuable and making the pension fund stronger in the end. A win win, it was sold as.
Enter the corporate raiders (Carl Ichaan) sold off the compaines assets (to his own entities) and the leased the equipment back to TWA. Squandered the companies assets (including the pension fund.) Fast forward to today. There is no more TWA, their employees pension is dumped into the PBGC, and people who worked there for 30 years have to look forward to a few hundred dollars a month. And Mr Ichaan?? Oh the poor TWA execs, how that pension bankrupted them.
I don't care about TWA execs, I can about my taxes being used to support a benefit for civil servants that basically doesn't exist anymore.
Civil servants are only a small % of the total working class. If your crusade is truly for the working class you are doing a terrible job.
I'm not being silly, it's an exaggeration used to show a point. You cannot simply state "the pension fund returned 26% and because of that it is over funded" because it doesn't have to be true. Let's deal in facts only, ok?
Not all civil servants contribute to the pension fund, and I'll say it again:
If pensions were cheaper than defined contribution, why are pensions being phased out in the private sector?
From the States site the average return on the pension fund is 8% historically.
I never said pensions were cheaper. I said they were affordable. There is a difference.
Pensions are being phased out because the 1% that control 98%of the wealth wanted more. Plain and simple.
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), the pension still requires a tremendous amount of funding by the taxpaper.
Hmm, Same thing happened at Trans World Airlines. By law pensions had to be 90% funded. All that untouchable cash was killing the TWA execs, (even though they were still profiting). They petitioned Congre$$ to be able to tap into the pension fund to invest in the airline, making it more valuable and making the pension fund stronger in the end. A win win, it was sold as. 
