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True but the market has returned on average through history more than 7% a year. Certain people will throw the pensions under the bus saying things like "unsustainable" or "underfunded" during recessions or bad times but refuse to acknowledge the truth when it doesnt fit their agenda. It is an agenda based on emotions not the fact unless the facts suit them.
My favorite is this "We cannot afford to pay these pensions" Truth is yes we can more than afford to. Fact
Translation is " I dont have a pension neither should you" Emotion
Yes largely insulated... in good times and bad. When times were good in the private sector were people up in arms over the low pay and terrible working conditions that civil service workers deal with? These raises they are now receiving... you know the 11% spread out over 4 years were negotiated to make up for what they didnt get when times were good. The next round will reflect current times and look paltry during the next boom cycle. As it always does and always has. There have been many years when public employees received little or no raises but THAT never makes Newsday's front page.
Facts are most civil service is payed less than private.
Most civil service pay for benefits and do not get them for life.
Most do not retire after 20 years with whatever pay you wanna insert here.
Most pay into their pensions
Most do not earn over 100k
ect
ect
ect
Yet when we need to make specific reforms to those that DO have all the perks you cite "most" civil servants don't have, you complain about that too.
not quite... most do reitre (you would be a fool not to take a government retirement),,, some will retire at 20,, most will retire at 55/30 (age 55, after 30 years of service)
depends,,,anthing over a gs12/13 is well over 6 figures....
signed a pension holder( retired from the military), going for my second pension
So after all this I guess we shouldnt make blanket statements about civil service workers and that the pension funds in NY state are more than solvent they are one of the best funded and managed in the country.
Sweet. Thanks for getting to the bottom of this lol
So after all this I guess we shouldnt make blanket statements about civil service workers and that the pension funds in NY state are more than solvent they are one of the best funded and managed in the country.
Sweet. Thanks for getting to the bottom of this lol
And definitely ignore direct questions in favor of pithy little comments like this.
Yet when we need to make specific reforms to those that DO have all the perks you cite "most" civil servants don't have, you complain about that too.
No I complain about how people want to circumvent the laws to do it. The lynchmob mentality that is incited by these newsrags showboating a few extreme cases as if it were normal. Let them bargain as they always have. I have zero complaints about new pension teirs and increased contributions for healthcare.
This very thread is about a win win situation for taxpayers and workers alike but the usual people come in and bash pensions,unions and all civil service workers making blanket and misleading statements. All out of jelousy. Admitted personal gain and greed. I support their right to be greedy just as I support the civil service workers the right to bargain collectively.
General motors management failed at the bargaining table for years as they were too busy shoving huge dividends into the shareholder elites pockets instead of reinvesting it into newer tech they decided to just ride out profitable SUVs forever with no gameplan. No direction and no product when gas shot to 4 bucks a gallon. The company should have done better in bankruptcy but emotional outcries got in the way and politics intervened on their behalf.
Ford worked with the labor force and is better off for it. As did American Airlines and its unions who took a 38% pay and benefits cut. Both still have a pension btw.
No I complain about how people want to circumvent the laws to do it. The lynchmob mentality that is incited by these newsrags showboating a few extreme cases as if it were normal. Let them bargain as they always have. I have zero complaints about new pension teirs and increased contributions for healthcare.
This very thread is about a win win situation for taxpayers and workers alike but the usual people come in and bash pensions,unions and all civil service workers making blanket and misleading statements. All out of jelousy. Admitted personal gain and greed. I support their right to be greedy just as I support the civil service workers the right to bargain collectively.
Fair enough regarding your complaint about the titles of threads, etc. I suppose people want to get attention for the thread that way. And I don't advocated doing anything illegal to union workers, but rather changing the laws.
So you think that the property taxpayers, who are suffering greatly in this economy, without raises, many taking paycuts, many without jobs, and who simply can no longer afford to support a small faction of super-entitled civil service employees by having their real estate taxes increased onto infinity ARE MERELY GREEDY?
While the unions are MERELY "EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT TO BARGAIN COLLECTIVELY."
Sure the seniors around here who own homes are greedy because they want to eat and have medication instead of pay more and more in property taxes each year. What do you think they are doing with their money? Buying yachts and private airplanes? But it's okay for the unions, who have quite enough already, especially in this economy, to take the bread off a senior's (or other fixed income person's) table to make their members steak sandwiches.
Let's leave the status quo the same. For example, let me know how the people in Levitt homes (who aren't teachers, school administrators, or cops) are doing in less than 10 years when their real estate taxes double from the typical $8K+ to $16K+. Especially if we continue to see a decrease in real income for most of the population, as has been demonstrated in the last decade.
Yes largely insulated... in good times and bad. When times were good in the private sector were people up in arms over the low pay and terrible working conditions that civil service workers deal with? These raises they are now receiving... you know the 11% spread out over 4 years were negotiated to make up for what they didnt get when times were good. The next round will reflect current times and look paltry during the next boom cycle. As it always does and always has. There have been many years when public employees received little or no raises but THAT never makes Newsday's front page.
Facts are most civil service is payed less than private.
Most civil service pay for benefits and do not get them for life.
Most do not retire after 20 years with whatever pay you wanna insert here.
Most pay into their pensions
Most do not earn over 100k
ect
ect
ect
The Wall Street types, attorneys and sales people aside, the average Joe accountant or average Jill HR worker in the private sector are not breaking the bank, even in the best of times. Then again, many teachers have such an inflated sense of themselves (I've seen some of them post here over the last year), that they think they deserve top pay coupled with a pension and summers off to boot.
My district's contract was negotiated during some of the darkest days thus far of this recession and yet they still managed to get 2% for year 1 (i.e. the current school year which is coming to a close). You do the math, with steps added, you're talking about a ~5% increase (we won't even mention $$$ for accumulated credits as part of the equation) for the vast majority of the teachers in the district. This is hailed as a "fiscally responsible" contract by our board. Meanwhile, non-union state workers haven't received a dime since the beginning of 2008 (I'm one of them) and are unlikely to get one for the next few years. I don't have a major issue with my own personal salary freeze given the conditions we find ourselves in, but it's absurd that the union workers are still trying to squeeze every dime out of a middle class that's quickly going broke.
Yes, I will repeat, they are completely and utterly insulated and are full of themselves with this pervasive sense of entitlement.
P.S. It's etc., not ect.
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Meanwhile, non-union state workers haven't received a dime since the beginning of 2008 (I'm one of them) and are unlikely to get one for the next few years. I don't have a major issue with my own personal salary freeze given the conditions we find ourselves in, but it's absurd that the union workers are still trying to squeeze every dime out of a middle class that's quickly going broke.
