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If you ever had an amazing vacation or other experience, you might tell everyone about it and recommend it, since it affected you so profoundly. This is no different. I wouldn't take it personally that I had not gone on that particular amazing vacation or experience... instead if I valued that person's opinion, I would probably consider trying it. Now obviously having a kid is much bigger than a vacation or whatever... and it's effects are that much more profound.
Wellllllll.... even though you stated this - I really don't think a cool vacation is in any way comparable to having a child. I'm not a parent, and even I would never attempt to compare those two things while trying to make a point.
And even if I go with your analogy for just a moment - when I go on a cool vacation - I talk about it for ~ a day, maybe 2, and throw some pics up on Facebook and move on. I don't drag it into every single conversation and/or make thinly-veiled judgements about other people's lack of vacation, tell them it's a "cold way to live" without vacations, that it is "one of the most magical things" you could ever experience, and told all those who don't agree with me that they are "vacation-haters."
In fact, if I suspect that my vacation story "audience" is in any way unable to take a vacation (for financial, personal or professional reasons) - I don't bring it up at all... out of respect for their choices/circumstances.
Hmmm... not sure. Could also be a lifestyle thing - virtually all of my friends have kids, and every member of all extended families (so we're kind of in the minority). So - no kidding - EVERY conversation eventually leads to some sort of a childless/parent life comparison.
Here in San Francisco, very few people in my age bracket (I'm 27) have kids. Not many have kids regardless... but I seriously don't know anyone who isn't from an immigrant community who's my age and has a kid here. It's just not common. It wasn't in LA, either - there were two couples out of my entire social circle who had a child.
Perhaps it's because of this that people don't feel the need to talk about kids if they have them - they assume no one's really interested, or at the very least can't relate.
I've never had anyone tell me I'm "lucky" because I don't have kids, and to be quite frank, I doubt most of the claims here that a lot of the aggressively childfree folks here make about parents having told them that they're "lucky" or "smart" for having decided not to have children unless it's a humorous, self-depricating jab, or they just recognize that the person would be an awful parent due to their attitude and the poster is too smug to realize it.
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And just to be clear - I'm NOT a kid-hater. I have nieces and nephew that I absolutely adore... in very small doses. And I adore all of my pseudo-nephews and nieces (friend's kids)... in very small doses.
I understand that. Kids aren't for everyone. And hell, for that matter, I have a 5-year old nephew that I can't stand. I really, really don't like the kid's presence. It's mostly his mom's fault - she's an awful woman who unfortunately imparted all of her screwy Baptist fear of sexuality to him (it's really amazing he even was born in the first place) so that, combined with a botched crcumcision - no joke - set him up for weirdness from the gate. She was also horribly verbally and somewhat physically abusive to him.
Consequently, even though she's out of his life now (thank god for DSS), he is a little hellion. I feel bad for him, but he's mean, he's unpleasant, he's rude, he's cruel to animals and his little brother, and earlier on when I was making an effort to be a positive role in his life, I tried taking him out for ice cream and pizza with my girlfriend. He would start trying to grab at her crotch and her breasts and when she'd try to stop him, he'd start hitting her there and trying to bite her (did the same thing to my sister when she came to visit them). I'd love to help him, but he's seriously, seriously jacked up. He needs a professional mental health practitioner, and I'm not one, so my keeping him around would do nothing, and I have a bad feeling that the kid is going to end up being sexually abusive. It was a bizarre feeling to me - I really do like kids, and this was the first time I actually disliked a child. I'm not happy about it. My idiot uncle and his vile wife should never have had children.
I had a roommate who was an ideological childfree/depopulationist and believes that no one should have children. This meant that any time he had beer in him and was in a bad mood, the first thing he did was start telling me that I only wanted a kid because I was a "narcissist" and that "the child would see through you and your motivations, and hate you." *smug smile*
Despite this, he told me that I should adopt. Why? "Because it's better to try to fix someone else's problem than fix your own."
Yeah. In a word: no. Not interested. What a nonsensical and crass viewpoint!
I'm well aware that the bulk of people who have decided not to have children don't harbor any ill towards children or think that no one should have them. I just don't understand the spite that so many identified "childfree" people have towards people who don't share their viewpoint.
Sure, I'd have no problem eating at a restaurant where screaming was not allowed. If one of my kids acts up (one is disabled and can be cantankerous), we step outside or leave if we need to. I would just by leery of how quickly management would descend. Let out a yelp because those huevos rancheros were spicy ... get out? Bite the inside of your cheek and whimper ... get out? What about adults arguing or talking loudly on the phone? It would just depend on the atmosphere. I don’t get why you have to make some grand announcement, like it wasn't always your right to ask people to leave your restaurant.
Meh, just words, but I knew someone would get sensitive.
"Hey, you?"
"Who, me?"
"Yeah, you."
"...yeah?"
"You're a stupid ****ing ****face. You look like a moron, and you sound like one when you talk, too. Jeez. Why don't you just go kill yourself? You're worthless and will never amount to anything, you're a walking embarassment to the human race and should be ****ing ashamed of yourself. Ugh."
"... ... ... what?"
"You heard me. Don't cry, nancy-boy. They're just words."
*PUNCH*
"OW, oh my god, you jerk! Why the hell did you punch me??? Those were just words..."
"You're a stupid ****ing ****face. You look like a moron, and you sound like one when you talk, too. Jeez. Why don't you just go kill yourself? You're worthless and will never amount to anything, you're a walking embarassment to the human race and should be ****ing ashamed of yourself. Ugh."
"... ... ... what?"
"You heard me. Don't cry, nancy-boy. They're just words."
*PUNCH*
"OW, oh my god, you jerk! Why the hell did you punch me??? Those were just words..."
I guess this at the end of my post meant nothing. However, my first sentence is true. When you have kids the years of being childless beforehand no longer count. Why? Because you will be a parent the rest of your life. You will only have a concept of what it may be like to be childfree based on what you did before you had kids. Hence the reason some parents think all we childless couples do is go to bars. Your OP, while notable, is just the way breeders try to relate or empathize with those who choose not to have kids. The most popular comment we use to hear was "I don't blame you, it's tough raising kids in this.........." Their blank expressions were priceless when they were informed that we were just not interested in having a family. Its okay that you can't grapple with the concept or the lifestyle, I don't attempt to offer parenting advice to my friends who are parents either.
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Originally Posted by 415_s2k
I think that anyone who'd be condescending to you would about your choices be so because you come across as abrasive and unpleasant ("breeders," "DNA-drained," "following the status quo").
Attitudes like yours are what make people bristle at the "childfree" label
My ex-fiance's sister and her husband were avowed childfree and had mostly scorn for couples who had children as well as for the children themselves for the first eight years of their relationship, and now have a 3-year old daughter. Sometimes, peoples' opinions and priorities in life change.
I put my follow up post above in case you missed it. Admittedly I get annoyed when those who have had children try to relate or empathize with our choice of not having children. I don't want nor ask for empathy and don't need to to try to relate, just be who you are. As for the status quo, it is what it is. If you're doing what the majority is doing then you're following the status quo. I for one don't wear the "childfree" label, those who know me are the only ones who know we don't have kids. If someone strikes up a conversation about their kids I listen politely, perhaps ask questions and then go about my business. Unless they ask they never have a clue.
Admittedly I get annoyed when those who have had children try to relate or empathize with our choice of not having children.
You get annoyed when people try to relate to you? And you find those who attempt empathy "not being who they are?" Huh. I guess it never occurred to me to find people who attempt to relate to me to be an annoyance.
Most people in the workplace have children. Most people (thankfully, not all), talk incessantly about their children, never having a clue that those of us without children could care less about listening to it. I run marathons, I travel to Europe several times a year, I do "interesting things" (to me). But I'm not deluded enough to ever think anyone else would think it's interesting. So I never mention it to anyone at work. EVER. I'm trying to be polite and respectful. I was raised by my parents that "no one cares what you do, so keep it close to the vest."
Yet others don't subscribe to this viewpoint. I am bored to tears nearly every day at work listening to, "My Juan is second string Junior varisty baseball now and he is a genius and got an A in algebra and he has a new freckle on his left shoulder and........................"
Blah blah.
No one cares.
Have all the kids/grandkids you want but never delude yourself that anyone without kids (by choice), gives one damn about seeing their photos or listening to them. Do those of you with kids ever listen to those without kids talking about their financial investments, vacations, rampant sex lives and endless discretionary income? Nope.
Yet those without kids are considered "selfish" or "flawed" or unfulfilled. Believe me, those without kids throw those same pejorative adjectives on those saddled with screaming brats, attending soccer games on a Saturday afternoon and investing millions into the kids' college funds.
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at the end of my post meant nothing. However, my first sentence is true. When you have kids the years of being childless beforehand no longer count. Why? Because you will be a parent the rest of your life. You will only have a concept of what it may be like to be childfree based on what you did before you had kids. Hence the reason some parents think all we childless couples do is go to bars. Your OP, while notable, is just the way breeders try to relate or empathize with those who choose not to have kids. The most popular comment we use to hear was "I don't blame you, it's tough raising kids in this.........." Their blank expressions were priceless when they were informed that we were just not interested in having a family. Its okay that you can't grapple with the concept or the lifestyle, I don't attempt to offer parenting advice to my friends who are parents either.
