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Old 09-15-2011, 06:14 PM
 
19,059 posts, read 22,827,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobokenkitchen View Post
Honestly I'm torn. On one hand you sound generous for wanting to help your friend and on the other your attitude towards your husband seems rather selfish.
What lifestyle changes have you made for him?
Limited lifestyle changes (outside pesci), but I think I've made sacrifices for him. When we got together, and decided we were in it (about a year in), I asked him what he wanted. What was his heart's desire. Barring extraterrestrial dreams of course, what does he want to do? His late grandfather was his hero, his favorite person. He was a sugar chemist; a smart, well bred, well read scientist. That's what my husband wanted, to follow in his foot steps. He was already well read due to his upbringing. Roughly 9 years ago we set to it. As an older student he had to do a lot of backtracking school-wise, math-wise really. But, he eventually blew through all the calcs, differential eq's, and beyond. I put my husband through college; some days kicked his ass through college. He got his chemistry degree. He's now working in a lab and will hopefully continue on with grad school next year.

Quote:
I don't feel line going back through the thread but I thought you said he had expressed concern and some unwillingness to move forward with this arrangement. Does that matter at all, or do your wants override his?

Edit. Missed the part about his ex. Ok - it sounds like you guys enjoy taking people in. So more power to you.
We're pretty easy going when it comes to people. I'm convinced it's hormonal/neurochemical. As with most, water rises to its own level.
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Old 09-15-2011, 06:18 PM
 
19,059 posts, read 22,827,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
Ditto.

If there were more people like this in the world, we'd have far fewer problems.

Bless you and your hubby, Braunwyn.
You too, Phil. I hope things are doing better since recent, pretty catastrophic events. That was definitely a dangerous, life altering, situation.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:16 PM
 
85 posts, read 98,016 times
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I have to laugh, because I read the beginning of the thread and thought you were a little crazy - this friend sounds like she is almost beyond help from anyone outside herself. Then I remembered, I did the same thing for my brother. He was depressed, in a terrible funk, really between jobs and I helped him move cross country with me and my husband and my kids.

It was difficult. It caused a little strain - but maybe not as much as you would think. It was tough at times, and eventually, he turned himself around and got a job. We moved, and he stayed there.

He totally flipped again, lost his job, moved back home with my dad and fell apart again.


Finally, he moved out to a new city with a friend, finally has a job and seems to be happy. Some people cannot be helped with much success until they decide they want it. If you're prepared for the fact that your help may only be temporary, or that she may not do anything with the opportunity, I say that's good.


The biggest red flag I have is that she can't care for her kids. That alone would discredit her for me, just because I cannot understand it. If she can't pull it together for her children, she's certainly not going to be able to pull it together for anyone else.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:27 PM
 
19,059 posts, read 22,827,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snadai View Post
The biggest red flag I have is that she can't care for her kids. That alone would discredit her for me, just because I cannot understand it. If she can't pull it together for her children, she's certainly not going to be able to pull it together for anyone else.
In part, tho perhaps only a small part, her staying in the state is due to her kids. Although, I can't personally relate to her situation or the choices she's made. She married a man she really didn't love. He loved her in his way. She has massive daddy issues (step father molested her and bio dad left her). He was her first relationship and it happened while she was going through a born-again-christian phase. It was a strained relationship that turned abusive with two kids that resulted from their 10 year marriage. They divorce, they have joint custody (him living with his parents), and then the recession hits. All that coupled with seriously bad decisions leaves her in this space. The decision to have kids to begin with is beyond me. At the very least she's lucky his parents have a roof.
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Old 09-15-2011, 07:41 PM
 
28,900 posts, read 48,690,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I can only do my best. And that's not even correct. Frankly, I do the bare minimum. I don't do enough for others, which is clearly a stratified, subjective perspective. As far as my husband goes, eh, I know many here won't get it; we're just on a different trip. I'm sure all women say this, but my husband is one in a million. A full blown meat eater that gave up mammals for our marriage (and I allowed pesci). That's significant. He has altered his lifestyle for 12? years now. He doesn't get it, but he knows I do, and that's enough (amazingly). That's every day for a lot of years. Every meal, every morsel is under consideration and it's based on the ethics of a partner. And with me keeping my door open to his ex, who is a friend, and a transient; as well as his buddies. That's not common either. What we have is truly special. My husband is a soulful, good man. He gets me. I never understood devotion until he came into my life.
Fair enough, although experience tells me enough to be skeptical. I sense that you are protesting a great deal on this count. But I've seen even the strongest of marriages have buckled under similar pressure. And every couple who started down the path you're undertaking began by saying, "Sure we can handle it."


But let me take this on from a completely different perspective, and trying to be helpful with a bit of objectivity. By taking on your friend, not only do you risk harmony in your own household, but you may actually do more harm than good when it comes to your friend. Unless you are really qualified to deal with mental illness (Which is apparently what she's suffering from) then the solution you provide may actually be counterproductive. While I fully understand your desire to help your friend, your desire to shoulder all this might actually be an act of hubris on your part, one that could ultimately be harmful to all parties involved.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:13 PM
 
19,059 posts, read 22,827,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Fair enough, although experience tells me enough to be skeptical. I sense that you are protesting a great deal on this count. But I've seen even the strongest of marriages have buckled under similar pressure. And every couple who started down the path you're undertaking began by saying, "Sure we can handle it."
I'd wager that a lot of marriages buckle under far less pressure. It's not as if "strong marriages' are some kind of umbrella. It depends on the people involved and the marriages will differ. Strength for one person might be something that falls under the radar for another. What you can take might not be something I can take and what I can take might not be something you could.

Again, I'm thinking of real hardships here. I'm on FB right now and reading some update from old gf's from middle school. Two of them have son's with autism. They are vocal about it and share their experiences. I cannot fathom how heartbreaking and difficult that must be; for them, for their marriages, for everything. That's something that hits a person at the core. Not this kind of crap. Not for my family at least.

Quote:
But let me take this on from a completely different perspective, and trying to be helpful with a bit of objectivity. By taking on your friend, not only do you risk harmony in your own household, but you may actually do more harm than good when it comes to your friend. Unless you are really qualified to deal with mental illness (Which is apparently what she's suffering from) then the solution you provide may actually be counterproductive. While I fully understand your desire to help your friend, your desire to shoulder all this might actually be an act of hubris on your part, one that could ultimately be harmful to all parties involved.
Your premise has to be under the assumption that an alternative exists. I'm receptive to alternatives, although I'm not recalling one being offered up in this thread. I'm reaching for all the alternatives I can think of- spending time with her working on her resume, looking up jobs online and submitting her resume, filling out applications for her online (while on the phone) because she lost her net connection. We've covered everything from zoo's to Dunkin donuts. Covering her physical expense. I offered to help her with her phone in the past, but that fell through. It doesn't matter if I'm a qualified mental health professional or not since she doesn't have a qualified mental health professional to turn to. What's the difference? It's something or it's nothing.

I'm dealing with the reality of the situation. She has no money. She has no food. She has a temporary couch. There's no 30-minute sit com quick fix. There's no political platitudes of how it could and will be. Superficial message board idealism doesn't translate off line. As with many situations in life there are limited, much to be desired choices.
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:19 PM
 
28,900 posts, read 48,690,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn View Post
I'd wager that a lot of marriages buckle under far less pressure. It's not as if "strong marriages' are some kind of umbrella. It depends on the people involved and the marriages will differ. Strength for one person might be something that falls under the radar for another. What you can take might not be something I can take and what I can take might not be something you could.

Again, I'm thinking of real hardships here. I'm on FB right now and reading some update from old gf's from middle school. Two of them have son's with autism. They are vocal about it and share their experiences. I cannot fathom how heartbreaking and difficult that must be; for them, for their marriages, for everything. That's something that hits a person at the core. Not this kind of crap. Not for my family at least.

Your premise has to be under the assumption that an alternative exists. I'm receptive to alternatives, although I'm not recalling one being offered up in this thread. I'm reaching for all the alternatives I can think of- spending time with her working on her resume, looking up jobs online and submitting her resume, filling out applications for her online (while on the phone) because she lost her net connection. We've covered everything from zoo's to Dunkin donuts. Covering her physical expense. I offered to help her with her phone in the past, but that fell through. It doesn't matter if I'm a qualified mental health professional or not since she doesn't have a qualified mental health professional to turn to. What's the difference? It's something or it's nothing.

I'm dealing with the reality of the situation. She has no money. She has no food. She has a temporary couch. There's no 30-minute sit com quick fix. There's no political platitudes of how it could and will be. Superficial message board idealism doesn't translate off line. As with many situations in life there are limited, much to be desired choices.
Sorry, but this paragraph annoys me. You want our opinions, and many of us offer reflective ones based on our own experience either in our own lives or of people we know. Then you discount our opinions, stating how we couldn't possibly begin to understand the dilemma you face--along with some condescending asides about political platitudes. I've dealt with depression and addiction in people I've loved, and it took me a long time to realize that people like that need qualified help, help beyond the abilities of people such as you and me. Look, if your mind was made up already, then why ask us at all?

In fact, I think we're far more perceptive about the problem than you are. After all, you told us in the OP that hubby is pissed about it. You actually think it's going to get better? You're kidding yourself.

Last edited by cpg35223; 09-15-2011 at 08:35 PM..
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Old 09-15-2011, 08:51 PM
 
19,059 posts, read 22,827,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Sorry, but this paragraph annoys me. You want our opinions, and many of us offer reflective ones based on our own experience either in our own lives or of people we know. Then you discount our opinions, stating how we couldn't possibly begin to understand the dilemma you face--along with some condescending asides about political platitudes. I've dealt with depression and addiction in people I've loved, and it took me a long time to realize that people like that need qualified help, help beyond the abilities of people such as you and me. Look, if your mind was made up already, then why ask us at all?
I don't mean political platitudes by you guys, but of our culture and the political climate today. I just watched the republican debates so it's fresh in my mind. They're all going to fix everything. Clearly, the last 4 years have shown all of us is that folk are in trouble and there are no quick fixes. People are going to suffer. Folk residing in high unemployment states are going to experience unemployment. That's on my radar.

Noting the reality of the situation, as well as the reality of the posts in this thread, doesn't mean I don't welcome opinions. If something is unreal I challenge it. I have a friend. Clearly, she's not going to be sleeping under a bridge if she knows me. How do I deal with that? I want the opinions, but the advice offered must be transferable offline. A few have stated if I take her in, if all else fails, then I will be enabling her. What exactly does that mean? That she hasn't hit rock bottom yet and by allowing her to, even tho she really has, will do something? On line the scenario can go a million different ways. Off line, there are limitations.

There has been some good advice in this thread. The whole over eaters anonymous thing simply based on over eating high calories (rather than just food) is a perspective that never dawned on me. That's an angle worthy of consideration. If I ever figure out how to communicate that point effectively to my friend I'll broach it. The support of laying down the law is helpful (if she moves moves here), and yes, this is with the assumption that she's not a presumed troll.

So, just because I reject your approach based on your experiences from your perspective does not mean I'm not learning from this thread.
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Old 09-15-2011, 09:37 PM
 
Location: La Jolla, CA
7,285 posts, read 14,316,623 times
Reputation: 11612
This is just my opinion: Don't do it. If you have the means, I'd give her a gift of a few months living expenses, and diplomatically suggest that she get out and lose weight, get back on her feet, and get it together. If you can give her five or six grand, you just bought her another 6 months of cheap living. This would be a very generous and kind gift, and any normal person should realize this.

I would not let her move in.

Unfortunately, this is one of those situations where helping someone could indirectly result in the loss of the friendship. If you give her money, it has to be a one time gift, and she may expect more, ruining the friendship. If you let her move in, the circumstances may be too onerous for her (despite your generosity), ruining the friendship. And we haven't even approached what it could do to stress levels in your marriage...

So basically, do what you can to help her out--but I'd skip letting her move in.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: The Present
2,013 posts, read 3,868,972 times
Reputation: 1956
Mom, you know better. You said it yourself, she has a hard time keeping her ish together. Your going to be butting heads like rams. Bad energy, your husbands right to be pissed about this, your basically inviting a squatter with a huge amount of emotional baggage into your house.

Dont let this recession serve as an excuse for her inertia. If you really want to work for something, a job etc, youll find a way. Shes gotta climb out of her own hole.
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