The much-despised "ma'am" word (person, business, issues, feel)

[Wanderlove]

I do not like being called mam and I am from the south. It does indeed make me feel old. I know the person calling me that is most likely trying to be polite but I can't help but cringe.


Also - why is "Sir" universal as far as a man's age but "Ma'am" is usually used to indicate an older woman and "Miss" a younger one?

[gentlearts]

I am only saying that I can be unfailingly polite without ever using sir or ma'am, and those who think that this is not possible are wrong. It is very far down on my list of things to care about, though.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by gentlearts

I am only saying that I can be unfailingly polite without ever using sir or ma'am, and those who think that this is not possible are wrong. It is very far down on my list of things to care about, though.

Well, amen to that.

I would add that those who "feel old" when someone says it may be totally justified, due to their own upbringing, but that doesn't mean that the person addressing them in that manner is TRYING to offend them, or even implying that they're old - so to be offended or bent out of shape by it seems like a big case of ye olde Overreaction.

People need to chill and quit reading so much into it one way or the other. It's just a small cultural difference, not meant to be offensive by anyone.

[tnff]

Good grief, now people are offended by simple politeness? I'm 50 something and I say sir and ma'am to the teenage kids behind the counter at fast food places. Would you like a beverage (don't you just love Chick Fil A)? Yes sir. And then thank you ma'am when they hand me the sack.

[Shysister]

Originally Posted by Liberty2011

Quite honestly, it seems the ones who ma'am and sir don't seem to have an appreciation for the fact that many other parts of the country or other countries simply don't use the terms and that we're not rude or upset about it either.

Originally Posted by maciesmom

Yes, and amusingly enough some of those folks have used those terms in less than respectful ways on this very thread, practically in the same breath as insisting it's only meant to show respect.

My sentiments exactly! Although the "term" is suppose to be enduring and show respect, it can also be rude and condescending and it's certainly not a measure of how one "should" show respect. Mr./Ms./Miss are actual "titles" that are recognized globally to show respect, where as ma'am/sir is basically just personal/culture preference that no one has to endure too. So you can't consider someone disrespectful just because they choose to not address you by your personal/culture preference.


The same way a culture that greets each other with kisses on the cheek, shouldn't expect me an American to greet them that way just because it's what they do in their culture. If I don't want you to kiss me on the cheek and prefer to shake your hand instead, that doesn't mean I'm rude or don't respect you or your culture. It simply means that addressing you by your personal/culture preference is not the only way I can show you respect.


People need to get over themselves thinking their life is the standard for everyone else's. You live your life the way you choose and I will do the same.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by Shysister

People need to get over themselves thinking their life is the standard for everyone else's. You live your life the way you choose and I will do the same.

I agree that "people need to get over themselves thinking their life is the standard for everyone elses." This includes people who are somehow mysteriously offended by the use or lack of the use of the words "M'am" or "Sir."

The same way a culture that greets each other with kisses on the cheek, shouldn't expect me an American to greet them that way just because it's what they do in their culture. If I don't want you to kiss me on the cheek and prefer to shake your hand instead, that doesn't mean I'm rude or don't respect you or your culture. It simply means that addressing you by your personal/culture preference is not the only way I can show you respect.

Would you agree then that if a person from a region - or IN a region - where the term Ma'am is used often, and that person uses the term Ma'am, that they are not being rude or showing disrespect for other cultures? So you'd be fine with someone from another culture or region showing their respect for you in ways that differ from how you show respect?

Although the "term" is suppose to be enduring and show respect, it can also be rude and condescending and it's certainly not a measure of how one "should" show respect. Mr./Ms./Miss are actual "titles" that are recognized globally to show respect, where as ma'am/sir is basically just personal/culture preference that no one has to endure too. So you can't consider someone disrespectful just because they choose to not address you by your personal/culture preference.

Just a note - I think you mean "adhere to." Though if that's a Freudian slip, it's pretty funny! Kudos!

Anyway, I can promise you that ANY name or title can be used in a rude, condescending way. And I can also promise you that many children throughout the south are raised to say "sir" and "ma'am" as a sign of respect (same with many military and law enforcement personnel) and it IS what they mean when they use such terms.

That being said, I think it's a bit over the top for adults to expect other adults, or even children who aren't from that cultural tradition, to use such terms with each other. I guess some do expect that, though I've yet to hear anyone express such an opinion in real life.

By the way, Merriam Webster gives the definition of the word "Ma'am" to be: " —used to politely speak to a woman who you do not know" Ma'am | Definition of Ma'am by Merriam-Webster

Good article on the usage of the term:
Should We Still Say, "Yes, Ma'am!" and "No, Sir." - Career Success, Conversation Skills, Daily Courtesies, Gracious Living, Mom Manners & Kids, Too, Social Situations, Speak Your Way to Respect, Tots to Teens -Manners Mentor - manners| etiquette

And here's another good article, by a woman who was offended when people called her "Ma'am."

So I feel like a fool now to have been offended by being addressed as “Ma’am.” I’ve changed my mind and my attitude. It’s just plain old dumb to be offended by a word that is meant to be nothing more than a polite gesture or a term of respect. We may all need an attitude adjustment. “Ma’am” does not mean “old” or “has-been.” It does not mean “married lady.” It is the only universally accepted polite address for an adult female. We have just got to get over ourselves when we are “Ma’amed” –for the sake of civility and common courtesy.

Yes siree, we do.

Don’t Call Me Ma’am | Better After 50

[zitsky]

Originally Posted by maciesmom

Of course it does. But that wouldn't have answered the post to which I was responding. Some people are apparently confused (their words) about how it is possible to be polite without using "ma'am" or "sir". It is possible. Not required but possible. Maybe they haven't traveled much. I don't know.

I agree that it's not necessary to use sir and ma'am to be polite. But your suggestion that people who use it are simply untraveled and perhaps unsophisticated seems to me to be a bit rude and condescending. Perhaps you simply mean to point out that customs are different in different areas, which takes us back to the beginning of this discussion.

[maciesmom]

Originally Posted by zitsky

I agree that it's not necessary to use sir and ma'am to be polite. But your suggestion that people who use it are simply untraveled and perhaps unsophisticated seems to me to be a bit rude and condescending. Perhaps you simply mean to point out that customs are different in different areas, which takes us back to the beginning of this discussion.

Nope. That isn't at all what I suggested. You said you were confused about how to address customers without using ma'am or sir while still being polite. I responded with an example. My comment about being untraveled was more about your self described state of confusion . I thought it was possible that if one had never been exposed to anything different, it would perhaps be understandable that you couldn't imagine what it might look like.

Originally Posted by zitsky

I'm confused. How should he talk to customers? Just a Do you want this or that? Excuse me, do you need something? Hey you! Doesn't sound that polite.

Originally Posted by maciesmom

"Good morning! How can I help you today?" works for many other parts of the country.

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

"Good morning, sir - how can I help you today?" also works well in many parts of the country.

I just don't see why it's such a big deal one way or the other to ANYONE.

Originally Posted by maciesmom

Of course it does. But that wouldn't have answered the post to which I was responding. Some people are apparently confused (their words) about how it is possible to be polite without using "ma'am" or "sir". It is possible. Not required but possible. Maybe they haven't traveled much. I don't know.

FWIW I have friends, relatives and colleagues in various southern states. I would not insult them by insinuating that their customs indicated a lack of education or worldliness. Nor would they imply that my customs were less than respectful.

[zitsky]

Originally Posted by maciesmom

Nope. That isn't at all what I suggested. You said you were confused about how to address customers without using ma'am or sir while still being polite. I responded with an example. My comment about being untraveled was more about your self described state of confusion . I thought it was possible that if one had never been exposed to anything different, it would perhaps be understandable that you couldn't imagine what it might look like.

FWIW I have friends, relatives and colleagues in various southern states. I would not insult them by insinuating that their customs indicated a lack of education or worldliness. Nor would they imply that my customs were less than respectful.

I consider myself very well traveled, thank you. I was raised in SW Pennsylvania where it was common to use Sir and Ma'am. You seem to think that a person would stop using those if they were just more sophisticated. You have reminded me of the importance of being polite to people regardless of where they come from.

[maciesmom]

Originally Posted by zitsky

I consider myself very well traveled, thank you. I was raised in SW Pennsylvania where it was common to use Sir and Ma'am. You seem to think that a person would stop using those if they were just more sophisticated. You have reminded me of the importance of being polite to people regardless of where they come from.

Again. ...I have not at all implied that usage of those terms has anything to do with sophistication or education or even travel (in general, except, as I said, if one had not ever heard anything else, then some level of curiosity/confusion regarding unfamiliar customs would be understandable ). It has more to do with local customs either of where you were broughtup or where you currently reside. That's it. My comment about not being traveled was in response to you personally and your confusion. In fact, I was so hesitant to even use the word "confused" (lest it be taken as an insult) that I specifically pointed out that it was your choice of words. I don't know how to be any more clear than that. If you don't get it then...I guess you don't.

Either confused was an apt word after all or you are being deliberately obtuse. Neither of which I can help or has anything to do with your usage of ma'am/sir, so I'll just leave it at that.