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I'm not reading through this whole thread, haha, but I'm one of these women. I don't say it for effect (if I say it at all); it's simply true. A lot of it in my case is that I'm a very active person and enjoy actually DOING things rather than just sitting around talking (read: mostly gossiping about other women) or "eating out" or "shopping" as a recreational activity. IMO, men are just more fun...
And I don't regard it as a "problem" (that's another thing about women: DRAMA)...
I'm just going to repeat this for consideration: she gets so annoyed and upset that they are way too emotional? And, she's fussed about their personal budgets and whatnot?
You sound rather "hostile and distrustful" yourself; just sayin'! In my case, I'm an INTJ on the Myers-Brigg's inventory, and that's only 4% of the female population, so I am far more logical, rational, and practical than the majority of women, who tend as a rule (not to generalize) to be more emotional, effusive, and illogical. That drives me crazy. So I relate better to and have a better time with men, and I'm sure other "atypical" women feel the same way... Try to look at this logically, rationally, and practically rather than emotionally.
I am INTJ also so I am one of those atypical women. It's not my thing to get into cliques and laugh real loud and try to be "cute". And other women have issues with me being that way. But it's just not my personality. That's why I've never been in girl cliques - I don't fit in and I don't want to. I don't feel I was put on this earth to try and win a popularity contest.
That's sad. You really should push for her to have female friends, otherwise she will end up like so many other women and have difficulty relating to her own gender and like many here will be quite hostile and distrustful of other females.
I'm not going to push her into anything that doesn't feel right for her. I don't teach her to hate any group of people, either, but I'm not going to force her into relationships that aren't a good fit.
And even women with women friends can also be mistrustful of each other. Consider all the drama that goes on within these cliques, much of it has distrust of each other as it's core.
I'm very curious--is the OP married or have a significant other?
I'm asking this because most women who are married and have a boyfriend or significant other are obviously not seeking any other men in their lives and therefore tend to hang out only with girlfriends. However, they can't expect unattached, single women to hang out ONLY with girlfriends.
I think the OP is upset about something that really is a divergence in lifestyle as people get out of their 20's and either stay single or get married and have kids. If 2 women are friends from high school into their 20's and then one of them gets married and has kids, the friendship might survive to some extent based on their long history together. But if a married woman with kids meets a single woman from the blue, they aren't going to have anything in common, and I think it would be very rare for these ladies to enjoy hanging out together.
Also some women just have different interests and don't enjoy "girly" stuff. I went into a meeting with 4 women at my job and they all started going on about their painted toenails. Meanwhile, ME was sitting there (I don't paint my nails), not really interested in the toenail discussion. Personally there are a lot of superficial conversations like this that I hear women waste so much time and energy over. I think it's a form of female bonding but personally I don't enjoy it. i don't get into it at all and I know many women on this post don't either, from the sound of it.
I think it's wrong and ultimately pointless to get angry at women who enjoy male companionship. Why get stressed over what other women want or need to do in order to find joy in their lives? I went to a male dominated college and worked in a very male dominated job for many years and didn't have any other women either at the job nor in my personal life. Most of the women I knew from college were getting married and having kids. I wasn't, and therefore diverged in interests from these other women. So yes, I hung out almost totally with men. Yes, some of them became romantic interests of mine, but most weren't. I'm not going to feel bad or guilty about that just because the OP is upset. If OP already HAS a man in her life, then feel blessed. But don't expect other women who don't have any man in their life, to only hang with women. That isn't normal.
I don't have a lot of close friends. It's not so different and there really aren't so few of us. There are people that prefer a quantity of people in their inner circle and those who don't. <snip>
I can agree with this and would like to add that there are also people who prefer quality people in their inner circle, regardless of their gender.
In my lifetime I have had good relationships with both men and women; as far as 'friends' go I have had 3 very good girlfriends for the majority of my life up to this point. I have also had two very good 'male' friends but when their lives went in different directions (these were work friendships in male dominated industries), the friendships eventually withered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyrallnamestaken
<snip> But in an office environment it sure makes it tough to go to work every day.
I think some women just don't recognize what other women are doing. I have also noticed two women that seem to be great friends. Then one day they are not anymore. I try to stay out of the gossiping and such because it can become difficult if you have to choose sides.
If you hear a woman talking about other women in the office I think it's safe to say that 'you' will not be spared if any one of those women decides you have said or done something that they find to be disloyal or offensive to them, one way or another.
After working in various office environments over the span of my lifetime I find that it is best not to discuss you personal life in anything but generic terms, if at all.
And what's also a little sad is that this all reinforces the idea that women are somehow lesser than men. Male qualities are to be admired, and women, who are catty and gossipy, are not to be associated with to the point where some women adamantly insist that they're cool, not like other women. (ANd I'm pretty sure we can all come up with examples of dudes who are jealous and catty.)
Which isn't to say that the OP isn't wrong when she says that men and women are enemies, or that women owe something to other women, but it's interesting how these biases are so ingrained in how we're socialized.
We continually overlook the women who do not engage in gossip and the men who do. Because we look for those things which support our current view and refuse to acknowledge those things that don't. The latter is the impetus for growth and change. Not something most people embrace.
As for women owing other women. I agree with this to a degree. Any group that is in a one-down position would do well to try to support one another toward reform. But, this does not include turning against other groups. Indeed the support of members from the group in the one-up position is invaluable.
What I think is remarkably sad is that when a woman makes her rightful decision to choose her own friends, she is judged for it.
I hate that.
My daughter is 8 years old and since she was 4, she has preferred having male friends. Anyone who wants to criticize her can go boink themselves. I suspect when she is a teenager she will still have a lot of male friends and won't want to be involved in a catty female clique. And that is totally okay.
First of all 'go boink themselves' made me snort audibly. So ... thanks for that.
Secondly, I was a 'tom boy' as a child and no one cared one way or the other. So .... go your daughter.
Thirdly, why do you have to denigrate the female sex because a few twits might criticize her? There are some very good females out there you know. I had a group of nerdy girls I hung around in high school..... no cattiness whatsoever.
That's sad. You really should push for her to have female friends, otherwise she will end up like so many other women and have difficulty relating to her own gender and like many here will be quite hostile and distrustful of other females.
That's just plain silly. I've had both types of friends, mostly female and was the quintessential 'tom-boy' as a child.
I am quite hostile and distrustful though. But, it is equally toward both sexes.
I am INTJ also so I am one of those atypical women. It's not my thing to get into cliques and laugh real loud and try to be "cute". And other women have issues with me being that way. But it's just not my personality. That's why I've never been in girl cliques - I don't fit in and I don't want to. I don't feel I was put on this earth to try and win a popularity contest.
Well .... I'm an INTP and I don't fit into any sort of clique female or male. Women can be harder on women just as men are harder on men. I don't see a lot of men leaving their male peer groups to hang out with mostly women.
Are some here saying that men are just better than women and that is why they have mostly male friends?
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