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I'm trying to picture what type of "blueprint" you will propose to your mother.
Or, if it just the simple things like not announcing in a negative tone "my daughter, the liberal" or disagreeing with you on sm?
If you are 40, I am wondering the age of your mother. Is it possible that she is trying to cultivate a loving relationship because she is thinking ahead to when she will need caregiving in the future?
Very good point.
OP, you probably know this but what you described is a textbook narcissist.
You can't change them, you can only go low contact or no contact.
She purposely told you on the day of the memorial service to put the spotlight back on her, that was pure evil what she did.
But narcissists are notorious for that, especially at holiday time. They will throw a wrench into the plans even if it makes them look bad, because they will take negative attention over not being the center of attention.
She may be thinking down the road she will need some help, so she better get on your good side.
Isn't your dad having some health issues and you're assisting? Is she aware of this? I hope I'm not mixing you up with another poster, but I thought you were dealing this with your dad currently.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-15-2017 at 06:17 PM..
OP, you probably know this but what you described is a textbook narcissist.
You can't change them, you can only go low contact or no contact.
She purposely told you on the day of the memorial service to put the spotlight back on her, that was pure evil what she did.
But narcissists are notorious for that, especially at holiday time. They will throw a wrench into the plans even if it makes them look bad, because they will take negative attention over not being the center of attention.
She may be thinking down the road she will need some help, so she better get on your good side.
Isn't your dad having some health issues and you're assisting? Is she aware of this? I hope I'm not mixing you up with another poster, but I thought you were dealing this with your dad currently.
LOL. Good memory. My father IS a textbook narcissist in many ways (and I'm increasingly convinced my mother is one too, though she really bangs on about my father being one whenever he comes up). He's 85 and starting to fail, and yes, I intend to take care of him as much as I'm able. He's not as toxic as my mother, so we get along fairly well even though there's a lot of forehead slapping at some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth. I'm a girl, so he doesn't see me as competition is the way a friend explained it to me - he's been a pretty great dad. I'm headed back home to visit him soon to further address the issues going on and try to convince him to move in with me so I can take care of him. My mother is very disgruntled that he's taking up my attention right now, from what I can tell. She won't want to move in with me though - she's the center of attention in her senior community, and she would never give that up.
Give her the blueprint from a "this is the type of relationship I want" and then ask her for one of her own. With her I would do it in writing. A casual, "Hey I was thinking about what you said and here are my thoughts."
Start if off really slow, lay down boundaries (no insults, accept people for who they are, etc.) see how it works.
I think if you don't do this, when she passes, you will feel guilty.
It may be doomed to failure, but you will be improving your people skills and broadening your world, and you can rest comfortable that you tried.
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Tell your mother how you feel in person. {I'd take a tape recorder secretly}
When she "goes volcanic", calmly stop her, and say "see, this is JUST what I was talking about."
If she disagrees, play back the tape of her ranting. SHE might be surprised at how she comes off.
Then GIVE HER A LIST of your requirements to have a "budding friendship".
List: all your off topic discussions, all your boundaries {don't call me late at night, don't come over without calling first, etc}.
Walk away. Let her digest it on her own.
GO to her in a few days and ask her how SHE FEELS after reading your list.
If she doens't behave WALK OUT. TELL her as you go "see this is the type of behavior I WON'T tolerate, THIS is why we don't have the 'best friend relationship' your friends have". Keep walking out on her, MAYBE she will get the message.
My FIL is overbearing, has to be right about everything, argues over EVERYTHING MOH says or does, won't let things go, wants and expects only HIS needs to be met,etc.. The TENSION is so thick you can cut it with a knife when MOH {My Other Half} and my FIL are in the same room together. Even our best friend, who had just lost his only child, a 24 yo son to suicide and was visiting us for consolation when FIL arrived UNANNOUNCED yet again and INSISTED on staying, even though we OBVIOUSLY had company, said he could not believe how much my FIL argued at everything MOH said!
When my FIL starts in, MOH gets up and walks away and we leave. My FIL still hasn't gotten why, but has made some changes. Unfortunately MOH can be JUST LIKE My FIL, and ISN'T willing to make changes OR see the cahnges FIL has made..
GUESS who is stuck in the middle now that MIL is gone???????
ALSO, lOOK AT YOUR behavior, and SEE where tolerance or changes can be made, remember it two people to create a disagreement!
Unfortunately you are stuck with her, but you don't have to be best friends.
LOL. Good memory. My father IS a textbook narcissist in many ways (and I'm increasingly convinced my mother is one too, though she really bangs on about my father being one whenever he comes up). He's 85 and starting to fail, and yes, I intend to take care of him as much as I'm able. He's not as toxic as my mother, so we get along fairly well even though there's a lot of forehead slapping at some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth. I'm a girl, so he doesn't see me as competition is the way a friend explained it to me - he's been a pretty great dad. I'm headed back home to visit him soon to further address the issues going on and try to convince him to move in with me so I can take care of him. My mother is very disgruntled that he's taking up my attention right now, from what I can tell. She won't want to move in with me though - she's the center of attention in her senior community, and she would never give that up.
I thought that was you. Kudos for you for stepping up to the plate with your dad.
Tell your mother how you feel in person. {I'd take a tape recorder secretly}
When she "goes volcanic", calmly stop her, and say "see, this is JUST what I was talking about."
If she disagrees, play back the tape of her ranting. SHE might be surprised at how she comes off.
Then GIVE HER A LIST of your requirements to have a "budding friendship".
List: all your off topic discussions, all your boundaries {don't call me late at night, don't come over without calling first, etc}.
Walk away. Let her digest it on her own.
GO to her in a few days and ask her how SHE FEELS after reading your list.
If she doens't behave WALK OUT. TELL her as you go "see this is the type of behavior I WON'T tolerate, THIS is why we don't have the 'best friend relationship' your friends have". Keep walking out on her, MAYBE she will get the message.
My FIL is overbearing, has to be right about everything, argues over EVERYTHING MOH says or does, won't let things go, wants and expects only HIS needs to be met,etc.. The TENSION is so thick you can cut it with a knife when MOH {My Other Half} and my FIL are in the same room together. Even our best friend, who had just lost his only child, a 24 yo son to suicide and was visiting us for consolation when FIL arrived UNANNOUNCED yet again and INSISTED on staying, even though we OBVIOUSLY had company, said he could not believe how much my FIL argued at everything MOH said!
When my FIL starts in, MOH gets up and walks away and we leave. My FIL still hasn't gotten why, but has made some changes. Unfortunately MOH can be JUST LIKE My FIL, and ISN'T willing to make changes OR see the cahnges FIL has made..
GUESS who is stuck in the middle now that MIL is gone???????
ALSO, lOOK AT YOUR behavior, and SEE where tolerance or changes can be made, remember it two people to create a disagreement!
Unfortunately you are stuck with her, but you don't have to be best friends.
This sounds great, but the OP has said the mother is a narcissist. They know exactly what they're doing, it's intentional. It was intentional that the mother chose to drop that bombshell on the day the OP had a memorial service to attend, they must be the center of attention, even if it means negative attention.
You're not going to get "oh my, I had no idea I sounded like that, please forgive me" when you playback the tape.
What you will get is narcissistic rage, they will explode "HOW DARE you tape me, get out of here".
Trying to reason with a narcissist is about as likely as going to the airport and expecting a cruise ship to arrive, it isn't going to happen.
You either have to go low contact or no contact for your own sanity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gouligann
I don't think your mother will change no matter what you say or do or in what form (email, phone, in person) that you do it.
That is her personality and you cannot change a person's personality.
Exactly. I will add narcissism is a personality disorder.
You know, I am not seeing how you can talk reasonably to your mother about this. I am not sure you can get her to maintain boundaries, and I am not sure she will ever respect you the way you deserve.
I am glad you are thinking of using therapy to learn how to deal with her. But I also think you can distance yourself from her. You do not have to talk to her very often, or even visit her more than once every other year or so. You do not owe her explanations. You do not owe her occasions where she can show you off to to others. You do owe her a certain amount of respect.
I think you should distance yourself. Don't call her often, and don't talk very long when she calls. If she gets emotional with you, hang up. Since she is bawling you out on social media, unfriend her. If she uses texting or email, send a simple note to her every so often, but don't go further.
You have to protect yourself from personal toxicity. And you need to recognize that your mom did not build a loving and trusting relationship with you when she had a chance.
Your mom sounds much like mine. Up to and INCLUDING the thing about my dad supposedly not being my dad.
I believed that for over 30 years, and found out after my dad died that it was not true. My brother found out about it and told my dad years ago - and my dad didn't care. I was still his daughter as far as he was concerned. It saddens me that I didn't find out it was a lie so I could tell him he was actually my biological father after all before he died.
I wonder if she isn't lying, as my mother did. If I were you I would try to get a genetic sample and have it tested - say taking some hair from his comb. I don't know whether telling him your mother threw this at you out of the blue would be a bad thing. I do know I would not have willingly told my own father what my mother claimed. My brother did it because he was trying to drive a wedge, but my dad was not that kind of guy, fortunately.
The way I handled my own mother was to be patient and as kind as possible - but not to seek her out. She was toxic and I didn't want her around my own child.
It's a tough situation, but I'm not sure she's any more manipulative than the norm for mothers. And do keep in mind that she clearly cares about you - something that many people wish for with their mothers.
I wouldn't email her. What I'd do is start thinking about writing her an actual letter, one that will make your points, but so kindly and so lovingly that you'll convince her. And then you'll enclose that in a lovely Mother's Day card in April.
OP whatever you do, don't do this. Your mom is a narcissist, she won't change no matter what, I know because my mom is the same and I finally cut her off a year ago after her behavior my entire life and I'm so happy now. I'm 34.
This person who posted above this clearly thinks that just talking to her will make her see the light, nope, that's not how narcissists work because they are NOT reasonable people. They want what they want and don't care about anyone else. When I'd tell my mom things about how she'd hurt me she'd LAUGH. She acted like it was funny! Or like I was over-reacting, etc. It was infuriating when you are trying to explain to someone how they hurt you and they'd act like you were the problem and not them.
If your mother ever asks you to have a closer relationship or expresses she wishes you were closer you say "I'm comfortable with our relationship the way it is, thanks."
You sound like you need to scale back OP. Don't see her around her friends, I had to stop doing that with my narcissistic mother, she just wanted to parade me around like some dog and pony show to make it seem like her and I were BEST friends when that was not the case AT ALL. I was just too polite to correct her in front of her friends, but she knew the truth.
I highly recommend the website daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com and the books "toxic parents" and "The wizard of oz and other narcissists.
One thing that stood out to me OP is that you say she follows boundaries but you have to constantly reset them. You are gaslighting yourself, if she followed boundaries you wouldn't have to keep resetting them. She wouldn't keep pushing them if she respected you.
My mom is the classic engulfing narcissist. She viewed me as an extension of her and even acted like my disabled husband (who she hated but she'd hate anyone I was with) should be her permanent handyman/surrogate husband. As a child she put me in a place of parentification, I did way too much for her. She had a terrible relationship with my father and used me as her crutch when I should have not been privy to all that information, specially as a young child.I pushed her to divorce my abusive father when I was in college when I should have not even said anything but that I didn't want to hear it anymore. I was way too enmeshed with her and didn't realize it until I hit 30 years old.
That's when I started to pull away, phone calls went from daily to once a week, 20 minutes tops, on my drive home. I would talk about very superficial things, nothing important. We'd see her once every month or so for a meal, that was it. She'd invite me to go to her friend's, I said no, her friends are not my friends and their children aren't my friends either. She just wanted it to look like we were such good pals! At my babyshower (that her and my sister hosted) she invited all her friends and I was not happy with it, that's when I pulled back even more and told her she'd never be allowed to invite anyone to anything of mine or my children's again.
It all came to a head when I thought that she was respecting boundaries but she got into a huge fight with my husband when she came over to our home and I was not home and basically I had to tell her that's it, that I was done and to not contact me anymore. She was angry that she didn't have a key to my home, that she couldn't come over whenever she wanted, etc. All the time I thought she was trainable she was just building up resentment AND blaming my husband. She threw things in my home and scared my one year old son then tried to deny what happened EVEN THOUGH my brother was also there and corroborated with my husband on what happened. To me it was my childhood all over again and I told her that I'm done with her behavior. I thought her divorcing my dad stopped that abuse but I guess I was wrong (she'd throw things around in fits of anger when I was growing up).
I say have a minimal relationship if you don't want to cut her off, but don't discuss it with her unless she asks and use my response above. If she doesn't like it oh well, that's not really your problem. If she starts getting upset you say "I can see this is upsetting you, I'll go now (or get off the phone now if it's on a call) until you can calm yourself and pull yourself back together, bye mom." And then I'd cease contact by way of at least a one month time out and even tell her "I need space from you after your outburst."
Good luck OP.
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