Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Before what we call civilization came to be and when people still lived naturally in small groups or villages, the whole community contributed to the raising of each child. Older children would help look after younger ones. If one of the children's nurturing elders failed them, there were many others to take their place. They knew there would always be someone would would willingly and happily look after them. There was a much greater sense of security in that, than having only two parents and no one else. Especially true, if one or both of those parents was negligent in those roles.
In some modern neighborhoods and also in extended families, this tradition is sometimes continued. I was lucky to have a large, neighboring family nearby, to which I became close. They filled-in some gaps that were left untended in my biological family. After all these decades, we still regard each other as family.
A good reference on this is Margaret Mead's "Coming of Age in Samoa". She spent several years living among the Samoans, at a time when civilization had barely begun to touch and affect them and observed these methods of raising children.
It's especially interesting how a young woman, who often had her first child at about age 14 or 15, was not saddled with all the work of caring for her children. She would spend some time with them each day and then was free to continue being a teenager, while many others took care of them. If she had an older brother, he would often become the major guardian of her children, during their early years. Everyone became better and more compassionate persons, from their involvement with the children, when they were still very young, themselves. Child-rearing was not a difficult burden for anyone, but rather a normal and accepted part of everyone's life, even if they had no children of their own.
This was our natural heritage and the way most of our ancestors were, for the first 99% of our last million years of existence.
Last edited by Steve McDonald; 03-05-2017 at 01:02 AM..
I am talking about posts in this forum, NOT child abuse. I obviously have upset a lot of people, and I'm sorry for that. My mother wasn't perfect, nor am I, but I wasn't abused, and I don't blame her for any mistakes I make.
My post was directed at those who blame their mother for not being perfect. For wanting to live their own lives and find satisfaction in something besides raising kids. The number 1 mental illness in women is depression, and in most cases it's brought on by circumstances beyond their control, whether it be poverty, loneliness, abusive relationships of their own, or poor health.
What happens here when a mother complains about her adult kids? She is blamed for not raising them well and labeled an enabler. Every.single.time. Yet, when an adult complains about a parent, almost always the mother, the support bandwagon pulls up. It's off kilter.
If somebody is posting on the relationships forum then the presumption is that they want a relationship, just not the one they currently have. That requires recognizing that adults are responsible for their own actions and reactions, and it's time to stop blaming your mother for everything in your life.
I stand by my previous posts. They were never intended to disparage abuse survivors.
Either you actually did mean to disparage abuse survivors, and are back-pedaling, or you do not understand the "Mommie Dearest" reference, put your foot in your mouth, and will not admit to that.
You still do not understand. No one is using anything as a crutch. They are simply learning to deal with the hand that they were dealt. You don't just wake up one morning and everything is brilliant. It's a long, long road to figure out what is normal and what isn't, as Kathryn so eloquently put it. It CAN take a long time, well in to adulthood, and you, nor anyone else, has any right to tell anyone who did go through it, how long it takes them to figure out who they are, what is normal, and how to change how they interpret and react. Everyone takes their own time. Some cases are so severe, that is DOES scar people for the rest of their life. Any psychologist will tell you that.
This is not a matter of: "I didn't have the perfect life, I blame my mother for everything", this is a matter of people who have gone through extremely traumatic events at a time in their life when they had no way to defend nor protect themselves. The very people who were supposed to protect them are the ones who traumatized them.
You also fail to comprehend that as time goes on, some memories come back. Sometimes it's a matter of simply going about your life when it happens. As an example, I distinctly remember one for me. I was sitting on the bus on the way to work. I wasn't thinking about or "dwelling" (as people like to say) on the past. I wasn't really thinking much at all...just was on the bus on the way to yet another day at work. We passed by a shop (like machine shop) and although I had passed by this same shop many times, this particular day that I'm talking about, there was a scent in the air that I did not recognize but DID recognize. I didn't know what it was, but I knew that it was something I had smelled in my past because it immediately flipped me back to a scene (in my mind) from when I was a kid.
It was oxygen.
The scene was when our house was lit on fire. I don't remember much of it, just that there was a fire, there was pain, there was an ambulance, and there was that scent of oxygen.
You can't deal with everything if some things come back at random times throughout your life because of something that (God I hate this word now since so many have destroyed it with overuse for every little thing) triggered that memory.
Asking new ways to think of something is not someone "blaming everything" on a crap parent.
People get to talk about their good memories, but if there's a bad one, no one wants to allow that. They claim it's "dwelling" on the past, or they should "get over it" or they "use it as an excuse". Well, too bad. People who have endured some of the things that other posters have posted on here get to talk about their experiences despite who gets all upset about that and wants to tell them how wrong they are for doing so.
There is a difference between "Mommie Dearest" types and "my mom didn't buy me ice skates for my 5th birthday". You don't want to endure a Mommie Dearest type...and even if you watched that movie, Crawford was hardly a mere "difficult to deal with" mom. She was abusive to her daughter. Abuse is not just physical, by the way. The thread asked about the "Mommie Dearest" types, not a mom who works too much, or a mom who didn't give a kid what they wanted, or a mom who didn't spend time with their kid.
This is what you wrote:
This is NOT a "Mommie Dearest" type mom. Your reply had nothing to do with abusive mothers.
And I AM a...how did you put it...ah, a "true childhood abuse" person. And I AM posting here. No, I'm not homeless, no I'm not poorly educated, no I'm not unemployed. No, I'm not "struggling to survive". My "mom" WAS a pain in the butt. She was also a pain in the arms, the face, the head, the legs, as was the sperm donor. They both went to jail. They didn't go to jail because they decided it was time for me to "live my own life". They went to jail for abusing the hell out of their kid. Me.
First, I am so sorry that happened to you.
Your last paragraph is spot-on. Many abuse victims go on to lead great lives. But we also still suffer - and we need to process what happened to us. If that means that a forum is the only way to do that, then we will.
Abuse victims should not be silenced. Shame and silence allow this horrible disease to fester. So, we shall post. And if that bothers some - keep scrolling.
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,487 posts, read 3,338,908 times
Reputation: 9913
I personally feel that those who are abused and go the route of drugs, prostitution etc.. are the ones that use the abuse as a crutch. They are not strong enough to break the cycle.
Those of us that have become successful in breaking the cycle do not use the abuse as a crutch. In fact, it is just the opposite.
Telling our life story helps to let others, and ourselves, know that we are not the only ones going through this. Compared to some, my experiences are not severe but it still doesn't mean I wasn't abused.
We all choose which role we will take in life. My older sister chose the victim role. She is a drug addict, liar, schemer, soul sucker. She is the one that uses the abuse as a crutch. As in the only reason she is that way is because she was abused.
Maybe I am stronger than her? I just know that when I was going through that, I kept telling myself that I would not be like my bio mom. It was a struggle at times to control an urge to lose control. My kids knew when they had pushed it too far when my voice would lower (I was not going to be a screamer!) and I would tell them to go to their room...Now!
We survivors, that are posting, are the ones NOT using the abuse as a 'crutch'.
You still do not understand. No one is using anything as a crutch. They are simply learning to deal with the hand that they were dealt. You don't just wake up one morning and everything is brilliant. It's a long, long road to figure out what is normal and what isn't, as Kathryn so eloquently put it. It CAN take a long time, well in to adulthood, and you, nor anyone else, has any right to tell anyone who did go through it, how long it takes them to figure out who they are, what is normal, and how to change how they interpret and react. Everyone takes their own time. Some cases are so severe, that is DOES scar people for the rest of their life. Any psychologist will tell you that.
This is not a matter of: "I didn't have the perfect life, I blame my mother for everything", this is a matter of people who have gone through extremely traumatic events at a time in their life when they had no way to defend nor protect themselves. The very people who were supposed to protect them are the ones who traumatized them.
You also fail to comprehend that as time goes on, some memories come back. Sometimes it's a matter of simply going about your life when it happens. As an example, I distinctly remember one for me. I was sitting on the bus on the way to work. I wasn't thinking about or "dwelling" (as people like to say) on the past. I wasn't really thinking much at all...just was on the bus on the way to yet another day at work. We passed by a shop (like machine shop) and although I had passed by this same shop many times, this particular day that I'm talking about, there was a scent in the air that I did not recognize but DID recognize. I didn't know what it was, but I knew that it was something I had smelled in my past because it immediately flipped me back to a scene (in my mind) from when I was a kid.
It was oxygen.
The scene was when our house was lit on fire. I don't remember much of it, just that there was a fire, there was pain, there was an ambulance, and there was that scent of oxygen.
You can't deal with everything if some things come back at random times throughout your life because of something that (God I hate this word now since so many have destroyed it with overuse for every little thing) triggered that memory.
Asking new ways to think of something is not someone "blaming everything" on a crap parent.
People get to talk about their good memories, but if there's a bad one, no one wants to allow that. They claim it's "dwelling" on the past, or they should "get over it" or they "use it as an excuse". Well, too bad. People who have endured some of the things that other posters have posted on here get to talk about their experiences despite who gets all upset about that and wants to tell them how wrong they are for doing so.
There is a difference between "Mommie Dearest" types and "my mom didn't buy me ice skates for my 5th birthday". You don't want to endure a Mommie Dearest type...and even if you watched that movie, Crawford was hardly a mere "difficult to deal with" mom. She was abusive to her daughter. Abuse is not just physical, by the way. The thread asked about the "Mommie Dearest" types, not a mom who works too much, or a mom who didn't give a kid what they wanted, or a mom who didn't spend time with their kid.
This is what you wrote:
This is NOT a "Mommie Dearest" type mom. Your reply had nothing to do with abusive mothers.
And I AM a...how did you put it...ah, a "true childhood abuse" person. And I AM posting here. No, I'm not homeless, no I'm not poorly educated, no I'm not unemployed. No, I'm not "struggling to survive". My "mom" WAS a pain in the butt. She was also a pain in the arms, the face, the head, the legs, as was the sperm donor. They both went to jail. They didn't go to jail because they decided it was time for me to "live my own life". They went to jail for abusing the hell out of their kid. Me.
Yes, I was raised by two great parents who put their children's interests ahead of their own. And I believed that the overwhelming majority of mothers were, if not great, at least similar to mine. Some of these stories here... wow!
Like I said: disillusioned.
I get where you're coming from because I did not know that my childhood was abnormal until I started seeing the way my friends lived. I can only think of one other friend who had a difficult childhood, but it wasn't anything like what I grew up with. I was fortunate enough to be able to be adopted by my friends families so I had some since of what a loving family was. Some kids I'm sure don't even get that. I saw some child abuse cases when I was in health care and it was all I could do not to go up and punch those rectums in the nose. I watched one precious ten year old die of an asthma attack because his parents ran out of his medicine and were too busy drinking beer at a party to be bothered with him until he collapsed and an ambulance was called. Don't even ask me what my Hindu friends told me about how female babies are terminated after being born in India. Unfortunately, humans are not always good, civilized, and worthy of being called human beings.
(Thank you for the rep "You poor thing" for my earlier post. That was very kind, but I survived and thrived in spite of my parents. I have a great life )
Here's a person who goes through the effort of carrying around a life inside the womb, painfully gives birth, changes diapers, feeds, and raises a child. Such a person must be a nurturer; and after all of that turns on the child. Not saying that I'm so ignorant as to believe that such people don't exist; it's just that they exist in far greater numbers than I realized.
Color me disillusioned.
Yes, happens more often than you'd think.
A lot of women become pregnant and never wanted to be a mother in the first place. Having to raise a child is a lot of unasked for and unwanted work for them, and I've seen a lot of mothers grow to resent their children because of it. You know, because it's the child's fault they got pregnant.
I know for my wife and I, we've been married 6 years, together for 10... we have a 3 yr old. We didn't argue about too much before kids, we both had good jobs, didn't stress about money, etc. In short, we had a very strong relationship and we were on really good financial footing before having kids. After kids... wow. We argue a LOT more. Stress levels are much higher for both of us. It's a strain, even for households that have their act together. We both love our child very much, but I can easily see how a less cohesive couple, or a single mom, could get to the point where they resent or hate their own child. It's sad. Our entire lives revolve around our child, and that is just an undeniable fact that I think a whole lot of parents out there do not envision when they decide to have a kid. If they haven't come to terms with that before getting pregnant, it's a really rude awakening when they find out firsthand.
Before what we call civilization came to be and when people still lived naturally in small groups or villages, the whole community contributed to the raising of each child. Older children would help look after younger ones. If one of the children's nurturing elders failed them, there were many others to take their place. They knew there would always be someone would would willingly and happily look after them. There was a much greater sense of security in that, than having only two parents and no one else. Especially true, if one or both of those parents was negligent in those roles.
In some modern neighborhoods and also in extended families, this tradition is sometimes continued. I was lucky to have a large, neighboring family nearby, to which I became close. They filled-in some gaps that were left untended in my biological family. After all these decades, we still regard each other as family.
A good reference on this is Margaret Mead's "Coming of Age in Samoa". She spent several years living among the Samoans, at a time when civilization had barely begun to touch and affect them and observed these methods of raising children.
It's especially interesting how a young woman, who often had her first child at about age 14 or 15, was not saddled with all the work of caring for her children. She would spend some time with them each day and then was free to continue being a teenager, while many others took care of them. If she had an older brother, he would often become the major guardian of her children, during their early years. Everyone became better and more compassionate persons, from their involvement with the children, when they were still very young, themselves. Child-rearing was not a difficult burden for anyone, but rather a normal and accepted part of everyone's life, even if they had no children of their own.
This was our natural heritage and the way most of our ancestors were, for the first 99% of our last million years of existence.
In cultures where mothers wear their children on their back as they go through the chores of the day, babies don't even cry. They never reach the point of needing to cry to alert a parent to their needs. When the baby begins to shift inside the baby-carrier cloth on the mom's back, the mom knows the baby's about to have a bowel movement, so she takes the child out of the cloth, and takes it to an appropriate place. When the baby begins to fuss gently, the mother knows it's hungry, so she feeds it.
Not only are instances of all-out crying rare, but the phenomenon called "colic" in the West, where babies go beyond mere crying to howling, doubling-down on their efforts to be heard and get their needs met in an environment of neglectful parents and perhaps older siblings, is non-existent. A culture that blames infants for being difficult ("colicky") in the face of parental neglect is scary. This is where later behavior problems, and failure to bond and develop trust with parents, begin.
U have met several adults who, imo, are a bit nutty. In all cases they inform me of what a witch their Mother was. I think it is easier to blame someone than face responsibility for poor choices etc. So I generally take Mommie dearest posts with a grain of salt.
U have met several adults who, imo, are a bit nutty. In all cases they inform me of what a witch their Mother was. I think it is easier to blame someone than face responsibility for poor choices etc. So I generally take Mommie dearest posts with a grain of salt.
Were your parents abusive?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
