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Old 03-04-2017, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Southwestern OH
247 posts, read 361,592 times
Reputation: 513

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My apologies if this starts to become a rant. I just have a few things to get off my chest, and while my husband is a great sounding board, there is only so much he can do since he's right here in the situation with me.

My mother has recently come to live with us due to financial issues. Physically she's fine (well, able to be independent), but financially she is a wreck. Employment issues and being conned by the temporary employment industry are just the tip of the iceberg with her. It seems like even when she can get a good full-time, non-temp position, that company goes bankrupt and she has to start all over. As far as I can tell she's never had any sort of significant savings, never had a job with a 401K plan, nothing. She has spotty employment history because of being a stay at home mom when my siblings and I were younger, then a divorce, then she went back to school to try and get a better job to make better money. Now, when she should be a decade or so away from retirement, she has crippling student loan debt and hasn't held a steady job for more than a year at a time since getting her degree.

When her latest temp assignment ended, she wasn't able to find another or a full-time position where she was living. Long story short, she ended up coming to live with us instead of becoming homeless. At first the deal was that she was going to watch our kids to save us and we'd give her the "savings" in cost of daycare until we move in early summer. However, she quickly proved unreliable in that. She's a very emotional person who doesn't think very far ahead because it upsets her too much, and she almost moved out again over a pet she had to leave behind. However, that turned out okay and we were able to keep our daycare, and Mom stayed here with us, just not with us giving her money.

The biggest issue right now is her financial stability--or lack thereof. She had some utility bills left over from her rental that were in arrears when she moved in with us. I THOUGHT the plan was for her to use her returned deposit from the rental to pay those, but then she had car insurance issues (BTW, Progressive peeps aren't all nice like Flo, and some of hem are downright proven liars) and insisted on getting into a payment plan for the utilities until her tax returns. I'm SURE that some of it went towards Christmas and birthday presents she shouldn't have bought. I get the pride thing, but presents aren't as important as her financial stability in our book--stability she needs so that she can move out on her own again! Some also went toward gas, which we told her and told her we'd be willing to pay for.

Now her tax return is in, but there were car maintenance issues that came up, so a good chunk of it went towards that. She is paying off the utilities with it, but she'll be back down to less than $100 again because she just went out and bought a bunch of non-essential feel-good stuff.

I understand she's feeling deprived right now, deprived of her independence and the lifestyle she was used to but could barely afford--and it wasn't even that expensive of a lifestyle, but she lived paycheck to paycheck and down to the dang wire from what I can tell. I know it's weird for her to need to live with her child and that child's family. However, we are very, VERY financially secure, in the top 20% as far as household incomes go, and we can afford to help her until she can get back on her feet.

Other than her spending habits, though, the major contributor to her financial issues is how she goes about looking for jobs. She is SOOOO stubborn about looking in the career field that her degree is in. No matter how many times we send her articles or talk to her about how few college grads actually work in their field of study, she is bound and determined to be the exception--even here, where she wasn't even planning on staying. She just needs to make money SOMEHOW at this point. Something that she can save up so that in the off chance that she does get a job within a couple months of us moving, she'll actually have enough saved to have a deposit and first month's rent on an apartment, be able to pay her utilities and the moving company to pick up her stuff in the storage unit in her old city (that, by the way, my husband and I are paying for), and have enough to eat until she gets her first check there. We sat down today and made her really look at how much all of that will cost.

What I'm most worried about right now is what will happen if she does NOT get a job right away when we move. Thankfully she got a temp job this week (grrr...I'm really starting to hate temp agencies), but even with that and if she works max hours at it, we made her realize that she WON'T have enough saved if she spends absolutely nothing else between now and then. She's FINALLY starting to accept that she'll need a retail job or something for a few months to supplement, and even that may not be enough. But if she doesn't have a job to hop right into? Will she spend it all, or listen to us for ONCE?

Is anyone else having these sort of issues with their parents? How do/did you handle it? Whenever I hear the "useless Millennials living in their parents' basements" rants these days, I just think of my own situation and want to laugh so I won't burst into tears. It's so frustrating. I'm so worried about her, and I don't know how to make her see that living paycheck to paycheck is no way to continue for the rest of her life. She'll never be able to retire, and eventually we might end up in this situation again which isn't really optimal. I love my mom,but we don't mesh well or have a lot in common outside of DNA.

Last edited by merewenc; 03-04-2017 at 10:34 PM..
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Garbage, NC
3,125 posts, read 3,009,957 times
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I have zero suggestions, but...*hugs.*

This sounds like a tough situation.
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Old 03-04-2017, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Southwestern OH
247 posts, read 361,592 times
Reputation: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkmax View Post
I have zero suggestions, but...*hugs.*

This sounds like a tough situation.
Thanks. It really is. I'm losing sleep over it--right now, in fact.

Compounded on all of this is the attempt to find a new home in our new state. Do we find one with enough room for Mom? Do we just go with our normal three bedrooms and hope actual couch surfing will make her more determined to move out quickly? Is that even what's best for her? And what's best for us? Right now our kids with a very large age gap are sharing a room, which isn't ideal AT ALL.
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:09 PM
 
7,743 posts, read 15,838,159 times
Reputation: 10451
Are you an only child?
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Old 03-04-2017, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Southwestern OH
247 posts, read 361,592 times
Reputation: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkpoe View Post
Are you an only child?
Nope. But I'm the oldest and the only financially savvy one out of us. My siblings...well, one claims not to be able to afford anything except the modest house he and his spouse are renting, their cars, and all the associated bills, plus student loans for degrees they never finish. He's a factory shift supervisor, and apparently they don't make much. My other sibling works as a waiter at two restaurants and can barely afford to split rent three ways with roommates. They really do seem to be more typical Millennials. Even when I was moving Mom out of her place, out of the four of us I arranged and paid for EVERYTHING. My husband I can afford it with absolutely no hardship, so we don't mind. At least she didn't end up on the street. But I'm pretty sure my siblings got their financial abilities--or lack thereof--from our parents.

Growing up, money was never discussed. When I started working in high school, I had to take it upon myself to figure out how to balance a checkbook and do minor budgeting. I was completely clueless how much anything in life would cost. I jumped on the chance to join the military because I figured that would give me time to figure all that adult-type stuff out with little worry as far as food and shelter went. Once I married my husband, we took financial classes offered by the military services and figured out real budgeting, creating rules and being strict with ourselves. I'm trying to teach my mother that now, but she looks at us like we're speaking a foreign language when we talk about having three (better six, but we're trying to start her small) months of total living expenses in savings in case of employment issues. The word budget seems to give her hives. She can't even fathom IRAs or retirement. And she's in her fifties. I just don't know what's going to happen to her.

She's not unintelligent, but she's incredibly impulsive and seems to live for self-gratification (especially emotional) above all else.
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,652 posts, read 60,572,966 times
Reputation: 101051
Quote:
Originally Posted by merewenc View Post
My apologies if this starts to become a rant. I just have a few things to get off my chest, and while my husband is a great sounding board, there is only so much he can do since he's right here in the situation with me.

My mother has recently come to live with us due to financial issues. Physically she's fine (well, able to be independent), but financially she is a wreck. Employment issues and being conned by the temporary employment industry are just the tip of the iceberg with her. It seems like even when she can get a good full-time, non-temp position, that company goes bankrupt and she has to start all over. As far as I can tell she's never had any sort of significant savings, never had a job with a 401K plan, nothing. She has spotty employment history because of being a stay at home mom when my siblings and I were younger, then a divorce, then she went back to school to try and get a better job to make better money. Now, when she should be a decade or so away from retirement, she has crippling student loan debt and hasn't held a steady job for more than a year at a time since getting her degree.

When her latest temp assignment ended, she wasn't able to find another or a full-time position where she was living. Long story short, she ended up coming to live with us instead of becoming homeless. At first the deal was that she was going to watch our kids to save us and we'd give her the "savings" in cost of daycare until we move in early summer. However, she quickly proved unreliable in that. She's a very emotional person who doesn't think very far ahead because it upsets her too much, and she almost moved out again over a pet she had to leave behind. However, that turned out okay and we were able to keep our daycare, and Mom stayed here with us, just not with us giving her money.

The biggest issue right now is her financial stability--or lack thereof. She had some utility bills left over from her rental that were in arrears when she moved in with us. I THOUGHT the plan was for her to use her returned deposit from the rental to pay those, but then she had car insurance issues (BTW, Progressive peeps aren't all nice like Flo, and some of hem are downright proven liars) and insisted on getting into a payment plan for the utilities until her tax returns. I'm SURE that some of it went towards Christmas and birthday presents she shouldn't have bought. I get the pride thing, but presents aren't as important as her financial stability in our book--stability she needs so that she can move out on her own again! Some also went toward gas, which we told her and told her we'd be willing to pay for.

Now her tax return is in, but there were car maintenance issues that came up, so a good chunk of it went towards that. She is paying off the utilities with it, but she'll be back down to less than $100 again because she just went out and bought a bunch of non-essential feel-good stuff.

I understand she's feeling deprived right now, deprived of her independence and the lifestyle she was used to but could barely afford--and it wasn't even that expensive of a lifestyle, but she lived paycheck to paycheck and down to the dang wire from what I can tell. I know it's weird for her to need to live with her child and that child's family. However, we are very, VERY financially secure, in the top 20% as far as household incomes go, and we can afford to help her until she can get back on her feet.

Other than her spending habits, though, the major contributor to her financial issues is how she goes about looking for jobs. She is SOOOO stubborn about looking in the career field that her degree is in. No matter how many times we send her articles or talk to her about how few college grads actually work in their field of study, she is bound and determined to be the exception--even here, where she wasn't even planning on staying. She just needs to make money SOMEHOW at this point. Something that she can save up so that in the off chance that she does get a job within a couple months of us moving, she'll actually have enough saved to have a deposit and first month's rent on an apartment, be able to pay her utilities and the moving company to pick up her stuff in the storage unit in her old city (that, by the way, my husband and I are paying for), and have enough to eat until she gets her first check there. We sat down today and made her really look at how much all of that will cost.

What I'm most worried about right now is what will happen if she does NOT get a job right away when we move. Thankfully she got a temp job this week (grrr...I'm really starting to hate temp agencies), but even with that and if she works max hours at it, we made her realize that she WON'T have enough saved if she spends absolutely nothing else between now and then. She's FINALLY starting to accept that she'll need a retail job or something for a few months to supplement, and even that may not be enough. But if she doesn't have a job to hop right into? Will she spend it all, or listen to us for ONCE?

Is anyone else having these sort of issues with their parents? How do/did you handle it? Whenever I hear the "useless Millennials living in their parents' basements" rants these days, I just think of my own situation and want to laugh so I won't burst into tears. It's so frustrating. I'm so worried about her, and I don't know how to make her see that living paycheck to paycheck is no way to continue for the rest of her life. She'll never be able to retire, and eventually we might end up in this situation again which isn't really optimal. I love my mom,but we don't mesh well or have a lot in common outside of DNA.
I'm your mom's age. Your mom is a mess.

You can't change her. You have learned that you can't teach her about budgeting. She is not listening to you. She is using you. Sad but true.

You are not responsible for your mom. My gosh, I try to imagine dumping myself on my kids (who are probably your age) and I can't even fathom it. SHE should be helping YOU out (if she wants to) at this stage of the game, not the other way around!

You need to present her with an exit plan and stick to it. She lives paycheck to paycheck, that's true but that's a form of budgeting - she's always "made it" from paycheck to paycheck so she can just continue to live that way. This is the first thing you need to understand - she is NOT going to change that way of running her financial life.

Don't hate temp agencies - where would she be without them? Here's a hint about those sorts of places - if a worker is a good worker, that worker often ends up getting hired by the company they were placed at. at the end of the "gig." Your mom is basically never hired. That's because she's not a very good worker. A good employee would never have the sketchy job history your mom has, spanning decades.

I don't see how your mom has been "conned by temp agencies." She's not paying them - the employer is paying them. They are finding her jobs which apparently she can't find on her own. Thank goodness for those temp agencies and their continued patience with someone who sounds like a less than ideal employee.

Staffing companies (some are temp agencies and others are permanent placement companies) also do professional placement - but they won't waste time on employees who they know are going to let down their customer companies.

So now your mom is just hanging out, "trying to find a job" and not even watching your kids to save you money. WOW. I have to say, I think this was intentional on her part. I don't think she ever really planned on watching your kids full time.

You are moving in the summer. Perfect opportunity to launch Mom into her own place. Give her a three month plan (or whatever, till the date you're leaving). Tell her that she is NOT coming with you. She is all drag and no lift at all. She is not to sleep on your sofa. She is certainly not going to get her own room. No. She is not coming with you.

Then stick to that.

I would help her transition, even if it meant giving her money for a deposit on a rental and utilities. Then that's it. Period. GET HER OUT NOW or you will never get her out.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Southwestern OH
247 posts, read 361,592 times
Reputation: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I'm your mom's age. Your mom is a mess.

You can't change her. You have learned that you can't teach her about budgeting. She is not listening to you. She is using you. Sad but true.

You are not responsible for your mom. My gosh, I try to imagine dumping myself on my kids (who are probably your age) and I can't even fathom it. SHE should be helping YOU out (if she wants to) at this stage of the game, not the other way around!
To be fair to her, we insisted she come live with us. I pretty much gave her no choice because the other choice was us giving her $1K a month to pay all her bills until she was able to find another temp job, and there were no interviews coming in. That's because her other "plan" was to move in with her boyfriend whose 12-year-old child tried to kill her. Not even joking. The kid went to juvie for it. There are so many messed up things in her life, and I know a lot of it is from her own poor decision making in lack of impulse control. But you're right, she shoudn't need this right now. She's aware of it; she just isn't willing to go "beneath" her college-graduate self to do what is necessary.

Quote:
You need to present her with an exit plan and stick to it. She lives paycheck to paycheck, that's true but that's a form of budgeting - she's always "made it" from paycheck to paycheck so she can just continue to live that way. This is the first thing you need to understand - she is NOT going to change that way of running her financial life.
I do agree with this for sure. It's just so frustrating because I don't want to see my mother out on the street at some point. She's basically going to need to work until she dies because twelve years out of the workforce to raise kids, working ten years, and then taking off another four to finish her degree when being a part time student didn't work has left her with very little SS contributions. Add her student loans on top of it...I just don't know how to help her. We HAVE told her this is basically the last help she's getting from us.

Quote:
Don't hate temp agencies - where would she be without them? Here's a hint about those sorts of places - if a worker is a good worker, that worker often ends up getting hired by the company they were placed at. at the end of the "gig." Your mom is basically never hired. That's because she's not a very good worker. A good employee would never have the sketchy job history your mom has, spanning decades.

I don't see how your mom has been "conned by temp agencies." She's not paying them - the employer is paying them. They are finding her jobs which apparently she can't find on her own. Thank goodness for those temp agencies and their continued patience with someone who sounds like a less than ideal employee.

Staffing companies (some are temp agencies and others are permanent placement companies) also do professional placement - but they won't waste time on employees who they know are going to let down their customer companies.
Yeah, my husband and I have discussed this a little. She actually did get hired on permanently twice--those were the companies that then went bankrupt only a little over a year later. It didn't help that she was doing this in an area of the country that has a VERY poor job market, wasn't willing to move, AND she was being so darn stubborn about sticking to her degree field. She just wouldn't accept that having ANY degree in some jobs, like admin assistant or something similar, is worth more than the jobs she was applying for that didn't pay all that great but were related to her degree. Like I said, she lets her emotions and "wants" rule her way too much.

Quote:
So now your mom is just hanging out, "trying to find a job" and not even watching your kids to save you money. WOW. I have to say, I think this was intentional on her part. I don't think she ever really planned on watching your kids full time.
I honestly don't think it was intentional on her part, although the kid thing was something we insisted on because I truly thought that it would be better for her to NOT work for income that has to be reported in the state we're currently in. Taxes here are stupidly high, so what little she will make won't be much more than we were going to pay her, tax free, in the first place. And she did well for us for a couple months, but this thing with her pet that she insisted on trying to find a "foster" for...well, that's a WHOLE other story. But suffice it to say that she was about to bail right at Christmas time, and there was a big blow-up. She actually has found at least a part time job now, so hopefully she'll get another one and be able to save up enough that she can move out on her own when we leave. The problem is that to get an apartment or even a room somewhere back in the state we're returning to (but a different part than where she lived with a much better job market), she'll need some type of employment. It's a frustrating catch 22.

Quote:
You are moving in the summer. Perfect opportunity to launch Mom into her own place. Give her a three month plan (or whatever, till the date you're leaving). Tell her that she is NOT coming with you. She is all drag and no lift at all. She is not to sleep on your sofa. She is certainly not going to get her own room. No. She is not coming with you.

Then stick to that.

I would help her transition, even if it meant giving her money for a deposit on a rental and utilities. Then that's it. Period. GET HER OUT NOW or you will never get her out.
The big part will be getting a job. She actually had an offer here for a full time position and considered it, but it would cost $3K more than she'd make in the next three months to have three months of rent (they require two-months deposit here plus first month's rent), enough for utilities, and enough to move her stuff from the storage units seven and a half hours away down here. That's some of what we figured out with her yesterday. So now she's going to start applying in the cities around where we're moving to. Meanwhile, she'll have the part time job she already landed here as well as apply for another one in retail (FINALLY, which she should have done in January) to make enough to hopefully move back out on her own at the same time that we move.

If she can get hired and have a job waiting for her to start when we get there, that would be optimal. I'm hoping it will work out, but if not, what kind of place would rent to her with no job? Should I suggest that she just apply for two part time jobs there to start out with and keep applying to full time positions while she waits? That will narrow down the city she looks in--right now, she's going to apply in three that are all within about an hour and a half of each other, but she can barely stand the idea of a thirty minute commute, let alone an hour and a half. (Neither can I!)
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:14 AM
 
18,345 posts, read 18,963,331 times
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as mentioned you won't change her personality or her work habits. all you can do is be supportive of her and keep your families needs in mind. perhaps it is time for her to rent a room from someone and apply for welfare. something for her has to change or this is how she will live indefinitely.
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,056,304 times
Reputation: 51113
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
(snip)

So now your mom is just hanging out, "trying to find a job" and not even watching your kids to save you money. WOW. I have to say, I think this was intentional on her part. I don't think she ever really planned on watching your kids full time.

You are moving in the summer. Perfect opportunity to launch Mom into her own place. Give her a three month plan (or whatever, till the date you're leaving). Tell her that she is NOT coming with you. She is all drag and no lift at all. She is not to sleep on your sofa. She is certainly not going to get her own room. No. She is not coming with you.

Then stick to that.

I would help her transition, even if it meant giving her money for a deposit on a rental and utilities. Then that's it. Period. GET HER OUT NOW or you will never get her out.
I agree. Do not allow Mom to move with you. Do NOT even consider for a second getting a bedroom for Mom. In fact, I wouldn't even keep a full size couch in your house. Let Mom know that if she decides to "come with you" over your vigorous objections, or comes to visit for "an extended vacation" she's be sleeping on the floor in the hallway or maybe the dining room on a crappy air mattress.

Of course, if there were extenuating circumstances, such as your mother has cancer or a serious illness, you can cut her some slack but the way it appears from your post, if Mom moves in now, expect that she will be with you and you will be supporting her for the next 45 years (when she passes away in her sleep in her bedroom in your house).
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Old 03-05-2017, 09:29 AM
 
7,743 posts, read 15,838,159 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merewenc View Post
She's not unintelligent, but she's incredibly impulsive and seems to live for self-gratification (especially emotional) above all else.
Impusive and self gratification do go hand in hand. Here's a couple other terms to describe your mother: unteachable, unwilling. All these traits are not good to have as they make life difficult. I'm also going to assume there's another trait floating around that even you haven't fully weaned out. This martyrdom mentality, I see a lot of victimhood and blaming and vilifying ("emotional", temp agencies, insurance co/agents). OP, you're clearly a fixer type and I'm asumming it's also because you're the oldest, you're used to taking care of everyone and making excuses for everyone involved.

Start looking at this objectively and realize a lot of it falls your mom. She's not a victim, she makes bad decisions and reaps the consequences. The family should be involved with (mostly equal) contributions. You should not be stuck with with your mother 100%, I'm sure they can come up with ideas that could help her situation. If they expect you to give money and continue to enable your mother, then you've got a bad/unhealthy family dynamic.

It's hard to come up with a plan of action, knowing your mother will not meet her end of the deal. I agree with previous posters, you're not going to want to bring her with you wherever you move to. It'll end badly with you having to fork over a lot more just to get it done. If someone's unwilling to change and be proactive about their situation, then nothing good will happen. It should be surprising that she's unwilling to get a second job, a retail job... But it's really not. She haven't had to need that second job because you're there, "helping" her and fretting about what's going to happen to her. You've done just about all the help you can, she needs to be more involved and proactive. If she asks for help with the deposit and some utilities, go for it but don't make it into a habit.
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