My understanding/belief of parent and adult child relationships.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by bobityboo

From my own experience, kids dont become 'reasonable' until they are at least 26 and in some countries, maybe older.

Exactly how do you define or understand "reasonable"? And how did you arrive at 26? From my experience, some folks, adult or otherwise, NEVER become reasonable while some are reasonable at 9.

I needed therapy to get through my step-son's teenage years,

Please tell us more. What happened there?

but as always, I like to think that life is a reflection of what is going on inside ourselves. If someone is 'bugging' me all the time, then the cause can be found inside of me and they are doing me a favour by bringing focus to that aspect of myself which needs work...

I agree! Yet most folks just point the finger at others and NEVER DO the work!

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by ocpaul20

jimrich, you sound very angry about all this and from what you tell us, I am not surprised you have this reaction. However, it is your life now which is being affected and which becomes less happy because of your disappointment at your parents. Can you see you are still carrying this anger at your parents around with you? If you look around you, you might find that this anger will affect your relationships with other people, people who you possibly love. It might even drive them away from you.

Ultimately, we have to sort out our own emotional issues as no-one else can MAKE us upset. We cannot blame others for the way we feel.

As an example, if you read a good book and you feel anger, sadness, happiness, etc it is not the book which has made us feel this way, it is ourselves. This is why we cannot blame others for the way we feel and the resolution of this is to understand ourself better.

Reading this may make you angry with me too, but thats OK. Sometimes we cannot accept things until we have moved on further with our life. There is a 'right time' for all information.

Do you have and comments or opinions on the thread's topic?
It would make more sense and mean more to everyone for you to stay on the topic of this thread rather than go off on a pointless tangent to bash another member or the member's opinions.

[gouligann]

Being a friend of your parents or parents being your friend is not a given just because they gave birth to you and raised you.

My husband and I feel very fortunate that our two adult boys and our one daughter in law are very close to us and we all enjoy spending social time together. I don't think it is luck, I think it is being compatible and not demanding of their time. We don't put pressure on them to spend time with us. We all have the option to make the choice of spending time together or not. If they are busy when we ask, that's fine, if we're busy when they ask, that's fine too.

Now, with that being said, the same should be with siblings but in my family, it's not... I have three brothers. Although they live out of town, 6 hours away, my one brother, (4 years older than me) and his wife are very close friends with us and we love to spend time with them. They are undemanding, but socializing with them is fun when we get the chance.

My other two brothers: twins, 8 years older than me. We rarely socialized with either of them in our younger years of marriage. This occurred naturally through the years because of the age gap and different interests and friends.

Now, years later, one of the twins is becoming more and more inept at social skills, and he's lost a lot of decent people out of his life because of his demanding, often rude behaviour that is getting worse as time goes by. He has now turned to us and his other twin to be the main part of his social life because he is lonely. (his wife passed two years ago)

I feel that just because he is my sibling, doesn't mean I have to be a close friend of his and spend a lot of time with him. He just doesn't get it. He just assumes that because I'm his sister, that I'm also his friend. (BTW, there is an element of mild to medium mental problems so I take that into consideration), but even so... he pouts when I tell him we're busy when he wants to do things together. He (rudely in my opinion)asks to be invited over for supper. He wants to get together far more than my husband and I consider normal for a brother/sister relationship. I have a hard time saying no, but I do say no. The more I'd give in to his demands of our time, the more he'd take and demand.

I'm caught in the middle. I can't just dump him because he IS my brother, but I wish he'd be more comfortable being alone and not being so demanding of my time. I hate feeling obligated to spending much time with him, yet on the other hand I feel sorry for him. He socializes with his twin, but his twin's wife rarely allows him into their house because she can't stand him. I wish it was different, but I understand and accept that. (They've had words through the years)

My take on this: A forced or demanding friendship with a family member is NOT a friendship IMO.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by gouligann

I'm caught in the middle. I can't just dump him because he IS my brother, but I wish he'd be more comfortable being alone and not being so demanding of my time.

I don't get it! If there was someone in my life that I did not want there, I'd dump them in a flash! It would be him or me and he'd be GONE. I might not come right out and say "get lost" but I'd make sure the annoying "brother" never crosses paths with my spouse or I again. I guess I can say that because us kids were NOT conditioned to lovingly accept each other by our very inadequate parents and we never found a way to finally accept each other so there is no permanent sibling bond in our family. But even if there was such a bond, I would not put my beloved wife through the trauma of a troublesome family member.

Originally Posted by gouligann

My take on this: A forced or demanding friendship with a family member is NOT a friendship IMO.

Same here and neither my spouse nor I will put up with it! Let the "pest" wise up or hit the road!

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by jimrich

I was both a friend and in love with my parents at the beginning but they, not I, put a stop to that a about age 5-6 when they suddenly decided that their kids needed some DISCIPLINE and then they became our worst enemies! After they began knocking some sense into our heads, the "friendship" was over and it never returned - even after growing up! I would have and could have been "friends" with my parents but the damages were already done and I did not


After therapy, I came to know, through HONESTY, that my parents did NOT always do their best. Just like me and everyone I know, my parents SOMETIMES did their best and SOMETIMES not. They wanted me to believe they did their best but HONESTY shows me that they DID NOT!


I know it's just semantics but, I would have wanted FRIENDLY parents rather than the mean, negligent, abusive Tyrants I had for parents. Of course they were not my "Friends"! I trusted, loved and liked my friends but rarely my unfriendly parents! My parents could have been my BEST FRIENDS but they chose to be my enemies so I found "friends" elsewhere. IMO, a parent can be both a friend and a parent but that would take some very deep training and a conscience which our parent NEVER HAD!


In my case, the "circumstances" were that they would not and could not ALLOW IT!
I now know that, IF ONLY my parents had allowed it, I could have and would still be their friend - perhaps their BEST FRIEND.


I am sorry to read this but completely understand that your dad, not you, may have destroyed the relationship there.

The key phrase in my post is "best she knew how." I give my mother a little slack because essentially she had to deal with a child who was kind of a troublemaker without any family around and a father who could have cared less. There weren't the resources or assistance back then for single parents that there is today. Add in trying to keep the lights on and it wasn't an easy road for her and all she could lean on is what she knew. She learned some wrong things and did those wrong things to me. I forgive her because of the conditions she had without much help but at the same time, she is not going to be some I extend a lot of trust to to be in my very packed inner circle.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by The Dissenter

The key phrase in my post is "best she knew how." I give my mother a little slack because essentially she had to deal with a child who was kind of a troublemaker without any family around and a father who could have cared less. There weren't the resources or assistance back then for single parents that there is today. Add in trying to keep the lights on and it wasn't an easy road for her and all she could lean on is what she knew. She learned some wrong things and did those wrong things to me. I forgive her because of the conditions she had without much help but at the same time, she is not going to be some I extend a lot of trust to to be in my very packed inner circle.

Were you really a "troublemaker"? Why were you a "troublemaker" Who influenced, conditioned and HELPED you become a "troublemaker"? and were you more of a "troublemaker" than those who helped you become one such as your own parents?
You seem very willing to take the blame and accuse your self while giving your mother a "little slack" and lots of excuses for her behavior. Why is this? Is or was your mother MORE DESERVING of slack and excuses than you - when you were a child?????? I don't know why you want to carry the burden for what happened to you but I can and will say that my brother and I became "troublemakers" AFTER our very inadequate parents and a few other influential adults CONDITIONED US to become troublemakers. We were both good, respectful, kind, HONEST and "normal" kids up to about 6-8 after which we, just like you and all the other unhappy kids we ever knew, became TROUBLEMAKERS - all because of crumby parenting! OK, throw in some unidentified genetic factors but the whole point is that we, just like you, were PROGRAMMED to become "troublemakers" by the powerful and influential adults and older kids around us.
So, IMO, you may have become a troublemaker but that was the direct and unavoidable consequences of LOUSY PARENTING!! So please stops taking the blame for being the child VICTIM of inadequate parenting and patents. All troublemakers are MADE THAT WAY by the bad behavior of influential others, in my opinion and experience.
Make excuses for and forgive your parent(s) if you like but also FORGIVE and, most of all, UNDERSTAND your self as the disadvantaged child you once were. I sincerely hope that you are a better parent than the one(s) you once had.

[clearlevel]

Your parents took care of you when you were a baby. Your mother didn't abort you. Your mother had to suffer hours upon hours of pain and blood and sweat and saliva through pregnancy and birth. Your father worked to feed you, clothe you and protect you. Using their intellect and their understanding they guided you through this world. Your parents were the first "friends" you ever had and were happy to see you when you were just born. One thing is for sure, you didn't come into this world on your own. Somebody had compassion and helped you. Your parents had a lot of love to take care of your pooping, puking self. Your parents had to sacrifice and give up their dreams just to carry you around when you were completely helpless and could have died if left alone even for a few hours. You were the burden and the annoying one, not them. You owe your parents a debt you'll never be able to pay back. You don't cheat on someone that loves you in a relationship. You don't disrespect someone that helps you out. Hence, you don't give your parents anything but the utmost kindness and appreciation. I don't care how bad you parents may have treated you, or how annoying they can be or abusive they can become (everyone has different challenges), you still can't walk away from and you must pay your respects. Without them and your mom specifically, you would not exist. Everything you do and are belongs to your parents. They influenced you in the greatest sense for better and worse. Life is complex, but you should always respect, and see with great love, your parents, especially your mother, even if they've been bad to you.

As an adult, you obviously have your own life and can do what you want. There are some freedoms that you've gained. You should also avoid arguing about things, since you won't always get along and it's not really necessary. You may not always be able to get along, but you should try to show your respect to your parents. In Buddhism, they talk about how children can best honor their parents by helping them have some comfort, because they deserve to hear good things. You may not be able to always agree with everything, but at the very least you should be nice to them. That's all you really have to do with them at this point, at the least.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by clearlevel

Your parents took care of you when you were a baby. Your mother didn't abort you. Your mother had to suffer hours upon hours of pain and blood and sweat and saliva through pregnancy and birth.

I'm very sorry that your parents went through all of that, OUCH! ....but SO WHAT?

Your father worked to feed you, clothe you and protect you.

Your father was a wonderful man for you, but, SO WHAT?

Using their intellect and their understanding they guided you through this world.

They apparently did a wonderful job of raising you. Tell us more about YOUR PARENTS.

Your parents were the first "friends" you ever had and were happy to see you when you were just born.

Well, I'm very happy for your and your loving parents and wish that mine had been like yours were. Please Tell us more about your family.

One thing is for sure, you didn't come into this world on your own.
Somebody had compassion and helped you.

Yep, someone "helped" you get here and - SO WHAT?

Your parents had a lot of love to take care of your pooping, puking self.

You must have been rough on your poor, sorry, humiliated parents with all your pooping/puking, etc. behaviors - OUCH! But, SO WHAT?

Your parents had to sacrifice and give up their dreams just to carry you around when you were completely helpless and could have died if left alone even for a few hours.

LOL, it's a wonder that your poor, unhappy and burdened parents did not dump you by the road or give you away rather than sacrifice and give up things on your undeseving behalf. I'd have tossed you away rather than suffer like you poor parents had to! Are you a parent now and, if so, are you having to sacrifice and give up things to keep some pooping/puking child alive? OUCH!

You were the burden and the annoying one, not them.

You must have been awfully annoying and a burden for your poor, abused parents!

You owe your parents a debt you'll never be able to pay back.

But you can at least try to pay back the debt you own them for putting them through such misery while keeping you alive!

You don't cheat on someone that loves you in a relationship.

No you don't and I sincerely hope that you have not done that to your long suffering parents!

You don't disrespect someone that helps you out.

Especially someone who sacrificed and gave up their dreams just to keep you alive!

Hence, you don't give your parents anything but the utmost kindness and appreciation.

You should give them what they DESERVE, if you have the courage and self respect.

I don't care how bad you parents may have treated you, or how annoying they can be or abusive they can become (everyone has different challenges), you still can't walk away from and you must pay your respects.

You need to have the self respect and courage to speak the truth and give others what they either deserve or have earned!

Without them and your mom specifically, you would not exist.

LOL, many humans have been known to survive without any parents but, SO WHAT???

Life is complex, but you should always respect, and see with great love, your parents, especially your mother, even if they've been bad to you.

You should ALWAYS give them what they have earned. They are no better than you or anybody else.

That's all you really have to do with them at this point, at the least.

Yes, assuming that your parents are still alive. All you really have to do is HONESTLY speak for your self.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by The Dissenter

The key phrase in my post is "best she knew how." I give my mother a little slack because essentially she had to deal with a child who was kind of a troublemaker without any family around and a father who could have cared less. There weren't the resources or assistance back then for single parents that there is today. Add in trying to keep the lights on and it wasn't an easy road for her and all she could lean on is what she knew. She learned some wrong things and did those wrong things to me. I forgive her because of the conditions she had without much help but at the same time, she is not going to be some I extend a lot of trust to to be in my very packed inner circle.

Sorry but this post really gets to me!
I keep wondering about what you had to DEAL WITH.
IMO, as a kid, you had to DEAL WITH a mom (and maybe dad) who helped or allowed you to become a "troublemaker" - just like what my brother and I had to "deal with". I want to know what all happened to influence you to become a "troublemaker" and why you have so many EXCUSES for your parents yet NONE FOR YOUR SELF!
I do not know you or your family but I probably could find tons of EXCUSES for you to become a troublemaker so why are the parents the only ones allowed to be EXCUSED for what they did or did not do????
Our parents had 1000s of EXCUSES for their (good and bad) behaviors and I can offer a few 1000 EXCUSES for the behaviors of us kids. We all had LOTS OF EXCUSES for our behaviors but somehow only the parents are allowed to claim any EXCUSES or REASONS for what they do/did while there is NO EXCUSE for what kids do! When my brother and I messed up, there was NO EXCUSE FOR IT ..... so we were automatically PUNISHED!
I submit that it wasn't an "easy road" for you and all you could "lean on" was what little "you knew" with no "assistance" or "resources" and that there were LOTS OF EXCUSES for how and why you became a "troublemaker" and I'd like to see your EXCUSES posted here right along with all the EXCUSES given to your parents.
Parents are no better than kids, IMO. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone has their EXCUSES, IMO.