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What do you guys think of a person who, when their beliefs are questioned in any way, resort to saying "Well, I'm not going to argue or debate you about it, it's just what I believe". For example, I was in a discussion with a person who said there are only two genders, male and female. I said "what about hermaphrodites, what gender are they?" and their response was basically "I'm not arguing about my beliefs, there's male and female and that's it, case closed." These people can't stand for their beliefs to be questioned in any way because "That's just what I believe."
I also think it's a weak cop out for someone who doesn't have any valid reasons to support their beliefs/arguments besides their emotions. I've had teachers like this before, they make a decree and say "I'm not going to debate you, it is the way it is." and as far as I'm concerned that makes you a weak person that's unable to stand up to scrutiny or defend their own argument, because they don't really have an argument. It's basically "It is what it is because I said so, and I don't have to defend myself or justify my beliefs, or ever question or even think about them, because all that matters is I have a right to my beliefs/thoughts, whether they be right or wrong". And that's totally the wrong way to go about life, if you go around thinking you already know everything, you'll never learn anything new or give any other view points a thought because, in your mind, you already have it all figured out, and don't need to defend yourself against criticism.
It is a rebellious nature in some, to adopt the abnormal, just to be different, to be noticed, but this adoption is not genuine ,it's lie.
True there are successful abnormal people but they are not celebrated for their abnormality but their over coming their abnormality.
My brother was born with out a left hand . As it is not reasonable for other people to attempt to identify with his success in life, by removing the same hand, he endeavored to live as normally as any other man ,not flaunt his design demanding special attention.
True healthy man wants to better himself, not worsen him self .
Those whom demand attention for their way, have no honor, but one that earns respect by good performance, has greater honor.
Whom would you hire , one whom is dishonest and boasts great skills with out proof. or one who's quality skills precede him?
If you are hiring some one to represent your multimillion dollar world wide business, should they be some one that represents them self with low self esteem ? What are you worth.
You choose what your worth, by the way you want to represent your self.
I'm typically one of those. As I see it, my views on politics and religion are my business, and I'm the one to decide if I'm willing to express those views or not. This forum is full of opinions that run the gamut. In the 10 years I have been on this forum, only once has an opinion been modified from other's.
I'm typically one of those. As I see it, my views on politics and religion are my business, and I'm the one to decide if I'm willing to express those views or not. This forum is full of opinions that run the gamut. In the 10 years I have been on this forum, only once has an opinion been modified from other's.
Yes, but I say if you are willing to express your views, you should be willing to defend them also. Don't speak up unless you are willing to back up what you say, IMO. If you're not willing to do that, then why bother even stating your opinion? Because people are going to scrutinize it. Honestly I like getting into peoples thought process and trying to figure out why they think the way that they do so that I can form better arguments as to why I don't believe whatever it is that we are discussing, if I happened to disagree with them. I'm also something of a contrarian, a devil's advocate, and I would rather stand up for an unpopular viewpoint than just go along with the majority. That's not to say that I simply go with whatever is unpopular, but I view the vast majority of people as drooling idiots, so the way I see it the most popular opinion can't be right, because most people can't even form a coherent thought, much less a cogent viewpoint on an issue. They are driven purely on emotional, gut reactions and logic and reason take no part in their decision making process.
If you don't mind me asking, what was the one thing that your mind was changed on based on someone else's opinion. I can't say I've had my entire thought process changed by someone else's opinion, but there have been plenty of times where they expressed a point in such a way that it made me amend and rethink my talking points when discussing that subject in the future. For example, if I had a point I thought was really good and they came up with a good counter to it, I would amend my argument in the future to make my opinion better, and not bring up that weak point again. But no, I've never had my opinion changed entirely or did a 180 on an issue based on someone else's thoughts/opinions, but many times they've made me stop and think about the way I was going about expressing them.
Last edited by jimmy12345678; 04-22-2017 at 01:56 PM..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy12345678
Yes, but I say if you are willing to express your views, you should be willing to defend them also. Don't speak up unless you are willing to back up what you say, IMO. If you're not willing to do that, then why bother even stating your opinion? Because people are going to scrutinize it. Honestly I like getting into peoples thought process and trying to figure out why they think the way that they do so that I can form better arguments as to why I don't believe whatever it is that we are discussing, if I happened to disagree with them. I'm also something of a contrarian, a devil's advocate, and I would rather stand up for an unpopular viewpoint than just go along with the majority. That's not to say that I simply go with whatever is unpopular, but I view the vast majority of people as drooling idiots, so the way I see it the most popular opinion can't be right, because most people can't even form a coherent thought, much less a cogent viewpoint on an issue. They are driven purely on emotional, gut reactions and logic and reason take no part in their decision making process.
If you don't mind me asking, what was the one thing that your mind was changed on based on someone else's opinion. I can't say I've had my entire thought process changed by someone else's opinion, but there have been plenty of times where they expressed a point in such a way that it made me amend and rethink my talking points when discussing that subject in the future. For example, if I had a point I thought was really good and they came up with a good counter to it, I would amend my argument in the future to make my opinion better, and not bring up that weak point again. But no, I've never had my opinion changed entirely or did a 180 on an issue based on someone else's thoughts/opinions, but many times they've made me stop and think about the way I was going about expressing them.
Then what's the point in arguing or debating anything with you? It might just possibly be that whomever is saying the thread title to you, knows it would be pointless to even try to change your mind.
You're saying that the only thing arguing has done for you is show you a weakness in your arguments and it only makes you find a stronger way of not opening your mind to change.
Oh, I won't be arguing this with you as I know it won't make a difference.
Then what's the point in arguing or debating anything with you? It might just possibly be that whomever is saying the thread title to you, knows it would be pointless to even try to change your mind.
You're saying that the only thing arguing has done for you is show you a weakness in your arguments and it only makes you find a stronger way of not opening your mind to change.
Oh, I won't be arguing this with you as I know it won't make a difference.
I'm not saying I'm not open-minded, quite the contrary, I'm just saying that no one person I've talked to IRL has significantly changed my opinion on something through argument/discussion. Most of the changes I've made as far as the way I think/what I believe has been through my own research on a given subject, whether that be reading articles online, watching a YouTube video, reading a book, listening to stand up comedy, etc.
For example, up until I was about 14 or 15, while I was never particularly religious, I did believe in some sort of god as an explanation of the universe. But through researching religion and reading lots of material on it, I came around to becoming more skeptical, and now I'm an atheist. This is one example of many things I've changed my mind about over the years, but no conversation about religion I had with people in my personal life changed my mind about it. It was of my own volition.
Also, I'm willing to hear anyone's opinion out at any time whatsoever, and won't stifle the conversation or dance around questions when certain subjects are brought up, like the people I'm talking about will. I'll listen to whatever you have to say regarding what you believe, and I'm fully willing to tell you exactly what I think about it, and maybe we can come to some consensus, or just agree to disagree. But either way I think that is better than certain subjects being "unmentionable" or "we don't talk about that" or "I'm not going to defend my beliefs or listen to what you have to say, I just believe what I believe".
I won't debate politics with you. Doing so is a waste of time usually.
I won't argue with you about religion for the same reason.
It is useless to argue or debate about deep seated beliefs, in almost all cases. The person who tells you he or she is simply convinced there are only two genders is telling you that their personal belief is just that--a personal belief--that is not going to change. So in a way, someone who tells you this is doing you a favor. It is useless to waste their time and yours trying to debate this.
If you like to exchange ideas with people and learn about their beliefs and life experiences, then I am all for that. But people who do that are not commonly encountered. People with strong beliefs who are emotionally invested in those beliefs will likely not be interested in debating with you unless they want to change your mind.
1. There are some things that are black-and-white to various people. To this person, gender is one of those.
2. There are some people that like to argue over anything. Tell them the sky is blue, and they will argue that it is really grey. Tell them something is black, and they will insist it could be a shade of white . . . and on and on. People like this are tiresome. Perhaps your friend is one of those who simply doesn't like to argue over what, to him, is crystal clear.
3. You seem to think debate leads to enlightenment. Oftentimes, "debate" is simply another way of trying to belittle another person for their beliefs.
4. You seem to feel that you are more "enlightened" and that by debating with this person, you can enlarge his horizons. Just because someone likes to argue, doesn't mean they are always right.
There's value is talking to someone about their beliefs to try to understand why they think the way they do. It is a delicate thing, to respectfully discuss something that you may not necessarily agree with. It becomes almost an exercise in futility when you are debating someone in order to change their beliefs.
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