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I started to reply to an on-going thread on Inheritance from Estranged Mom but it was going a bit off-topic. Hence this new thread on estrangement between parents and their adult children.
Has there been a cultural change when it comes to estrangement? Traditionally, American culture values personal independence, however it appears to more heavily emphasized by younger millennials and gen z. Its almost like some view themselves as totally individual units with their primary responsibility being their 'mental health.' Any entity that threatens that mental health becomes an unacceptable stressor, not to be dealt with but avoided.
Marriage (and relationships with the in-laws) frequently have been a stressor for previous generations. Certainly being raised by a mentally ill parent can lead to estrangement, and none of this is new. Some choose as adults to struggle thru 'awkward' relationship with their parents, others not. (Caveat: not speaking here about physical or sexual abuse or parental rejection where the issue is one of deep trauma not "awkwardness.")
Beyond the above, what appears different today is the definition of parental 'offenses' that lead to going low contact or no contact expanded. For example, offenses include the parents having different societal views, perhaps not fully comprehending younger generation concepts of social justice. Any questioning of that then becomes intolerable 'racism.' The societal value of showing basic respect to elders is now replaced by judgment, with the younger generation now seemingly equal 'peers.' (Certainly this is seen in the schools, as teachers struggle to maintain control and the American tradition of questioning teachings replaced by demonstrations of disdain.)
Personally I've always defined myself as socially liberal but my daughter becomes uncomfortable if I'm not 'woke' enough. We have a connected, loving relationship but she's quite serious telling me that's how her generation thinks. We remain able to talk about culture and politics, and she sometimes revises her views based on my comments. (The young know absolutely nothing about history, I swear.) Importantly, I applaud her empathy and independent thought.
Another factor is that as parents become viewed almost as peers, any parental errors then are judged like one would in a seemingly difficult friend. Many on this forum applaud establishing personal boundaries not permitting oversteps by friends, and this now also applies to basically loving parents who step over some line they don't always fully grasp. We have seen threads on this forum of parents desperately trying not to 'offend' their adult children, as they parse their words and actions.
The decision to estrange is reinforced even applauded by peers, often thru social media. What I find chilling is the online groups permit no real discussion, must less dissension. If someone tells their story it can only be supported. No questions asked, must less other views suggested even gently. According to the group terms, estrangement groups are meant to be "safe spaces." While unqualified support may, in fact, be appropriate at times, the net effect is to create echo chambers.
I have three close connections (two familial) where there are estrangements. One conflict seems to stem from political/religious differences where the parental generation expresses their unacceptable their views too strongly seemingly attempting to impose them on their adult children, at least that's how the kids interpret it. One is associated with a mother who may, in fact, have a personality disorder. The other is somewhat of a mystery to me, an in-law relationship that was very strong until it fractured when the sole grandchild was born. No doubt each have their reasons.
Still, there is something new in the wind that's blowing into town ...
OP: Yes, I have noticed it. I'm a boomer - the generation currently being trashed, with no comprehension of our lived experiences.
I think what's driving it is selfishness and wanting to distance from any future caregiving. I think parents are being harshly judged due to the motivation of wanting to avoid any unpleasant future responsibilities.
Since estrangement is so positively held as a value, it's easy to justify if all of your friends are validating that choice.
Many parents are being demonized for small imperfections and actions that are disagreed with.
What's ironic is that a portion of these people glamorizing estrangement have small children - so they have no clue what's involved in raising kids to adulthood. They have somehow deemed themselves inherently superior to their parents - some will have rude awakenings when their own children cut ties with them for their harshly judged actions and imperfections.
Some of the adult kids doing the estrangements have personality disorders themselves, and yet have no problem pointing fingers back to their parents.
It's very sad and there is little respect for differences.
Honoring your father and mother, as I was taught in the Catholic religion, is not valued.
I had a difficult parent who did some awful things. I saw that she was well-cared for and treated her with the utmost respect that I could muster. I don't know what I would have done if diaper changing (hands-on care) was involved in her later years, but luckily, didn't have to deal with that issue (would have been nearly impossible for me to provide that care directly and I honestly don't know what I would have done).
Hopefully one or two in each generation will speak up for respect and the need for it and it's value in our culture.
Last edited by considerforamoment; 02-07-2024 at 03:57 PM..
OP: Yes, I have noticed it. I'm a boomer - the generation currently being trashed, with no comprehension of our lived experiences.
I think what's driving it is selfishness and wanting to distance from any future caregiving. I think parents are being harshly judged due to the motivation of wanting to avoid any unpleasant future responsibilities.
Since estrangement is so positively held as a value, it's easy to justify if all of your friends are validating that choice. <snip>.
Both seem to be themes, yes. Prime times of estrangement are when parents become older or alternatively when their own kids are born. Maybe for some, once the college bills are paid and they're more centered around their age cohort, and its influences. Therapy plays a roll, and while it's a net positive the primary responsibility of the therapist is to the client - this then probably leads to more me-centered subsequent decision-making that doesn't take into full account other societal complexities.
For the first group, their parents now are deemed terrible and they can't imagine being involved in providing additional aid, even hearing of a medical issue or a logistical problem. These conversations are dull, dull, dull. Busy new parents have no time for any connection that isn't a net positive in their lives. It's not only single friends that get left by the wayside but parents.
Still, there's an underlying guilt due to societal expectations and that makes the situation uncomfortable. It's easier to cut ties citing the precedence of their mental health. A complaint is their own parents couldn't be 'bothered' to themselves seek therapy, often in the past to have been better parents from the beginning.
My grandmother was not an easy woman (my poor mother) although she was good to me. Still she gave my dad a hard time perhaps because he was from a lower socioeconomic class, at least I think for it was never too blatant but my dad sure disliked her. Maybe death by a thousand cuts.
After my mom's death my father continued to help his MIL, my grandmother, in any way possible - fixing things, driving her, just being someone she could call for help. My grandmother was so grateful and once said in some amazement: I really underestimated your dad, he has been so good to me. While their relationship was never fully repaired, it said something that my grandmother could grow to admit her error and that my dad could rise above his resentments to help someone who really was struggling.
Both were good examples - much more so than hearing from my dad how he had to maximize his mental health by leaving my grandmother stuck without a ride (no cabs in our small town).
The message that came from the Greatest Generation was strength. That said, I do think millennials / gen z are on to something: their willingness to look at the unacceptable, and to respond. The key is, of course, moderation and perhaps to apply some of their insights to their parents with the same empathy that they give to political movements etc.
Last edited by EveryLady; 02-07-2024 at 04:23 PM..
Good topic. We have 5 grown children between us, all married, 4 with children. The youngest/childless couple are the woke ones and yes, we have to be very careful when we talk with them because they can become very offended. We actually did have a fairly good conversation about why we saw things so differently due to where we each got our news.
The older 4 families are the opposite. They definitely don't follow these newer views. They have children going through school and sports and they own homes. Maybe that makes a difference. One quit her executive position because the company was going too woke. Two have pulled their children out of public schools.
You have to especially love the ones that disapprove of, or want nothing to do with their parents, but want or expect money to be given to them so they can have the lifestyle they want. I expect there are many estrangements that happen when the parents don't keep a steady cash flow going.
This is an excellent topic and one that is not often spoken about even amongst friends because there seems to be shame involved when adult children decide to distance themselves from their parents. I'm in my sixties and I have friends who are going through this also but it's not spoken about freely.
One thing I've noticed with some younger people is a need to feel like a victim of some sort, whether real or imagined. I know there are situations where parents have treated their children horrendously through abuse of all kinds, but I don't think the OP is talking about that type of estrangement.
Many younger people are incredibly self absorbed. To me, the proliferation of selfies is mind boggling and might have something to do with their disconnect from those who are not in their orbit - including their parents or older relatives. I have no answers but just wanted to say the topic is a good one for discussion.
I believe there is a shift in culture and I don't believe it's just millennials and Gen-Z that are making that shift. People are coming to realize that just because someone is a family member doesn't obligate them to maintain a relationship with that person.
People are setting boundaries with others who bring toxicity into their lives and if those boundaries aren't respected, they're taking action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG
Good topic. We have 5 grown children between us, all married, 4 with children. The youngest/childless couple are the woke ones and yes, we have to be very careful when we talk with them because they can become very offended. We actually did have a fairly good conversation about why we saw things so differently due to where we each got our news.
The older 4 families are the opposite. They definitely don't follow these newer views. They have children going through school and sports and they own homes. Maybe that makes a difference. One quit her executive position because the company was going too woke. Two have pulled their children out of public schools.
As the "woke" adult child of very conservative parents, I can tell you that it's very disheartening to see and hear how unaligned our basic values have become. My husband and I don't often bring up our opinions or views when spending time with my parents but inadvertently one or both will make a comment that is definitely cringeworthy and we'll deflect or ignore it and change the subject.
Frankly, if they were anyone other than my parents, they would not be people we'd spend time with and it deeply hurts me to even type that out.
I would challenge your opinion that your youngest and her husband have their views because they are childfree and don't own a home. There are plenty of folks who are parents and homeowners who share the same views as your youngest. I'll refrain from saying more as I don't want to derail the thread from the original topic.
Last edited by HokieFan; 02-08-2024 at 07:40 AM..
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