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You cannot determine that ANY treatments will save his life, cause no harm, bankrupt him financially, make his life a living hell with side effects, etc.
He is not mentally ill. He is simply doing something you disagree with.
I know people who have chosen not to seek treatment and lived many years. I know people who have sought treatment and were medically tortured until they died.
Its not mental illness. It's an informed decision based on personal preference.
The decision to intentionally no longer exist at the age of 30 with a stage 2 contained renal cancer is an example of mental illness. It’s called suicidal ideation. Treatment of this cancer is straightforward and quite successful. 75% survival after 5 years.
In fact, his cancer is not the real problem. His mental illness is what is going to kill him.
Here is his quote: “I also do not believe life is somewhat precious. Mine certainly isn't.”
This is pretty much the definition of a mentally ill outlook. Especially at 30 years old. This person desperately needs to see a mental health professional.
Once he addresses the mental illness he might regain the will to exist, and will then change his mind on treatment options for the cancer.
I agree. My first thought was that he reminds me of my husband. From the time we got married (mid 20's) he has always upheld his position that he wouldn't fight against all but the most treatable cancers (skin). He had all grandparents and a mother die of it. His first cousin fought it a few years ago. Genetics aren't on his side.
I have always respected his decision and his mindfulness and especially of his acceptance about the inevitable. We are lucky that we've not had to deal with this yet. But if you follow me in the personal finance forum you know that over the last ten years we have pretty much directed all our finances to set me up for his early passing.
I wish this forum had given OP a little more grace. He deserves nothing else...
He has a family who loves him. He *had* a girlfriend who loved him who he left heartbroken. He has a very curable cancer and is instead choosing a miserable death, and then crying about how his family won't support him. Will he expect his family to change his diaper as his organs start to shut down? Should they pay for the next year or two of increasingly decreased quality of life when he can't work or support himself? Should they provide round the clock care indefinitely to manage his pain? Should a parent or sibling *also* quit their job to take care of him? The OP isn't just making a choice to end his life, he's making a choice that will (probably) rope his family into a very painful, devastating, extended caregiving situation. That's what families (should) do when someone is ill, but this is a situation of choice rather than inevitability. He doesn't deserve grace for that.
Neither does your husband, for that matter. It is one thing if he's just a husband. Then he could be selfish, but that's your choice of who you married. It's a different situation to say that you wouldn't get treatment and plan for an early death when you have kids. Genetics might not be on his side, but medicine is and there are plenty of things that require more serious treatment than skin cancer that are still incredibly curable. To blanket say that he wouldn't get treatment for things like lymphoma, thyroid cancer, testicular cancer, kidney cancer, melanoma, or prostate cancer is something I simply can't wrap my head around - especially given your children.
I think it's doubtful that the OP was genuine, and since that poster is no longer around it's a moot point, but I think this entire thread is a good example of the danger of "black and white" thinking. As a two-time cancer survivor myself, I'm shocked at how many people who have never had any type of cancer are quick to take up a ridiculously hard-line stance: "If I got cancer, I would not seek any treatment! I would just accept my fate and enjoy the time I had left!"
I always supposed that these people would change their tune if they found out they had an early-stage tumor that could be easily removed surgically, or something relatively simple like that. Apparently many would not, and I can't imagine why, unless, like the OP, they are already mentally ill or suicidal.
My first cancer was diagnosed 11 years ago. I had surgery and three months of chemo, and was cured. I had a different cancer five years ago. Surgery, three more months of chemo, cured again. I live a 100% normal, healthy, active life and hardly think about the fact that I once had cancer. Of course, I could have chosen not to be treated, and in that case the first tumor would almost certainly have killed me by now, leaving my three children motherless.
It's one thing to be told you have stage 4 cancer and realistically have only a few months left, and refuse treatment. But how foolish to choose a long, lingering, painful decline from an disease that could have been cured. Of all things, "I will refuse treatment for any cancer!" is not the hill anyone sane should choose to (literally) die on.
I think it's doubtful that the OP was genuine, and since that poster is no longer around it's a moot point, but I think this entire thread is a good example of the danger of "black and white" thinking. As a two-time cancer survivor myself, I'm shocked at how many people who have never had any type of cancer are quick to take up a ridiculously hard-line stance: "If I got cancer, I would not seek any treatment! I would just accept my fate and enjoy the time I had left!"
I always supposed that these people would change their tune if they found out they had an early-stage tumor that could be easily removed surgically, or something relatively simple like that. Apparently many would not, and I can't imagine why, unless, like the OP, they are already mentally ill or suicidal.
My first cancer was diagnosed 11 years ago. I had surgery and three months of chemo, and was cured. I had a different cancer five years ago. Surgery, three more months of chemo, cured again. I live a 100% normal, healthy, active life and hardly think about the fact that I once had cancer. Of course, I could have chosen not to be treated, and in that case the first tumor would almost certainly have killed me by now, leaving my three children motherless.
It's one thing to be told you have stage 4 cancer and realistically have only a few months left, and refuse treatment. But how foolish to choose a long, lingering, painful decline from an disease that could have been cured. Of all things, "I will refuse treatment for any cancer!" is not the hill anyone sane should choose to (literally) die on.
Same. I was diagnosed with Stage IV Hodgkin's lymphoma when I was 23. I had been misdiagnosed for 5 years, so I can speak to what it feels like to slowly die as your tumors crush your organs. At my diagnosis, my oncologist (the chief of oncology and a Harvard Med/Dana Farber trained physician) told me he had never seen someone whose cancer had spread *that* much. I should have died 2 or 3 years before my diagnosis and at diagnosis, I had a tumor the size of a grapefruit hanging out in my chest crushing my lungs and heart. I lived with constant anxiety because of my racing heart and had a hard time taking a deep breath (both blamed on anxiety and the cold weather that winter). I had tumors on my long bones and up my spine causing blinding pain in my legs and back. It was atrocious and I'm shocked I lived that way - due to my age and gender, my symptoms had been blamed on being "busty" and depressed as a college student. What got me diagnosed was when a tumor popped up in my underarm, causing it to be convex rather than concave.
My cancer at stage IV was considered 85% curable with 6 to 8 months of chemo. After my first chemo, my tumors perceptibly shrunk. 5 days after the first chemo, I could take a full breath for the first time. After the 2nd treatment, all of my back pain ceased. By 4 months of treatment, I was considered cancer-free. I got two more months of treatment just to be sure we got it all, and then done.
And yet people constantly asked me how much time I had left and seemed shocked when I said 50 to 60 years.
There are some cancers that still have poor outcomes, absolutely. And if you are older, treatment is harder to recover from. But more people are living full lives after treatment than ever thanks to medical advances not only in treatment, but in long term care.
When I hear people say they wouldn't seek treatment for cancer - as if cancer is one illness rather than hundreds of different diseases - I just think they're wildly childish.
I'm 30. It's Stage 2 at the moment and it's mildly aggressive. The tumour is about 8 cm long right now. I'm going through a "mild phase" where there aren't much symptoms apart from fatigue, occasional strong pain and blood in the urine.
The doctor says that once it gets to Stage 3 (when it gets to the lymph nodes), it will all unfold at a very fast rate.
I actually had to find another doctor since the first one didn't want me as a patient because I refused treatment. I'm grateful that happened because this is one actually knows how to be a doctor and is 100% better in every respect.
Personally I think you are too young to just throw in the towel. Can the oncologists do something other than chemo? Maybe surgically remove the tumor?
That being said when I was dx with breast cancer I refused chemo & radiation. I opted for the bilateral mastectomy with reconstruction. My oncologist was not happy with me so I found another one. I was 56 at the time and my surgery was 8 years ago. I am now 64 and if my cancer returned I would opt out of any further treatment and just go to Hospice when my time came. My husband died of lung cancer and the chemo ravaged his body. After seeing that I said it was never going to be me. But that is my own personal feelings. There are people on here who survived cancer with the help of chemo. That is their choice and I'm happy for them.
You actually sound depressed to me and I hope you will at least consider talking to a psychologist if you haven't already.
As an aside, I really appreciate reading the personal stories of cancer survivors here. You fought and as a result, you have been given many good years that would have been missed if you had decided life wasn't worth living due to the diagnosis of a horrible disease.
Saibot's right - these people are very qualified to talk vs. those who are speaking speculatively and really don't know what it's like.
Thanks for sharing and bringing to light what should be considered when faced with such decision, especially if the odds are still in your favor.
The truth is that regardless of what you do, the end result all leads to the same thing. For me personally, I have so much to live for and that wouldn't change.
Personally I think you are too young to just throw in the towel. Can the oncologists do something other than chemo? Maybe surgically remove the tumor?
That being said when I was dx with breast cancer I refused chemo & radiation. I opted for the bilateral mastectomy with reconstruction. My oncologist was not happy with me so I found another one. I was 56 at the time and my surgery was 8 years ago. I am now 64 and if my cancer returned I would opt out of any further treatment and just go to Hospice when my time came. My husband died of lung cancer and the chemo ravaged his body. After seeing that I said it was never going to be me. But that is my own personal feelings. There are people on here who survived cancer with the help of chemo. That is their choice and I'm happy for them.
You actually sound depressed to me and I hope you will at least consider talking to a psychologist if you haven't already.
Treatment for stage II kidney cancer is typically removing the impacted kidney. No chemo or radiation.
Kidney cancer has a very high survival rate. (snip)
If you were my family or a friend, I'd be giving you a hard time too. And if your choice was to refuse treatment, my choice would be to remove myself from the situation. It would be like witnessing a suicide but not trying to intervene.
For the record, I'm an 8 year survivor of stage IV cancer and have been considered cured for the past 3 years. Many of my friends are also cancer survivors, including people who have survived kidney cancer. (snip)
Go charolastra00!! May you make 10, 15, or (all) years, dude. Or dudette, as we sometimes said in the 1980s!
Had to wrestle with this one. Is this different from preventing a suicide...that's a tough legal and moral question. I think "they" can lock you up if you threaten suicide and wave a pistol around, at least awhile. Can't lock up anyone foregoing treatment for a cancer even with the promising survival rates mentioned.
The suicide I knew didn't seem to think how much his loss affected others. He was probably deeply ill at that point, in such pain it didn't matter, but I wish it would have. To this day I remember the good times with Nate, but at the end he exited with an unexpected bang, quite literally, and that taints it due to the wreckage left behind.
Being how I am, on the one hand I'd suggest OP take a quick trip to an assisted suicide state, or place (country), and go through the process. Faster, cleaner, if part of the process is reasonably asserting one is of sound mind if not body. My Conservative ways wrestle with this, but my rational mind says this should be an option. I'd skate out from under the loved ones, probably with a long note and no forwarding address, 100% of assets liquidated to cash, and a pretty clear couple week or couple month plan to sail off into the sunset in some pretty place like Astoria or Beaverton (three seasons, fourth not so much). Do so with a smile, in a lawn chair, watching the sun set over the Pacific ("peaceful") Ocean, with an IV in your hand. Last Will and Testament to spring upon my demise, right into Probate.
OR, I'd try and sit OP down for a good talking-to myself, were I friend. I'd remind them that others would be harmed emotionally by such a departure from hope. I'd try and bargain them into at least a consultation, acknowledging that yes I am a Rationalist and their fate is their own...maybe they'd sway me over to the "Oregon Trip" side soon enough.
If the OP was trolling she/he/whatever did a fine job at it. The arguments continue despite the absence and status change of the OP.
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