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Sure, everyone should be able to do that, in an ideal world.
The section I quoted deals with this situation exactly. He's a long-term guest who is staying with someone who is involved in a family conflict. If he knew about the conflict, which we now know he doesn't, then he should remove himself briefly from the situation so the family members can sort it out.
It's not that complicated for people who will stop their knees from jerking and think about it.
You're right, it's not complicated. The niece needs to get over herself and stop trying to dictate the guests at someone else's home. What does your etiquette book say about that?
And a family Christmas celebration is not the time for family members to sort out any conflicts going on. The OP did the right thing by getting it all sorted out prior to Christmas and not involving her guest in what was going on.
Sure, everyone should be able to do that, in an ideal world.
The section I quoted deals with this situation exactly. He's a long-term guest who is staying with someone who is involved in a family conflict. If he knew about the conflict, which we now know he doesn't, then he should remove himself briefly from the situation so the family members can sort it out.
It's not that complicated for people who will stop their knees from jerking and think about it.
I agree, a polite house guest excuses themselves from family conflicts to give their host some time and privacy to sort the conflict out. It doesn't quite apply to this situation now that we know more details, but I'm surprised how many people are arguing the point BirdieBelle is making.
That being said, Christmas is a unique holiday. Yes it's a time of love, etc, but there's also certain traditions that go with it.
Visiting with family, and exchanging gifts goes beyond just sharing a meal. It can feel very awkward to have a non-family member there, watching the whole thing without being included. I'd feel bad if everyone is opening gifts while the non-family guest is just sitting there. But I'd also feel weird if I was obligated to buy that person gifts since I didn't know him.
I'd side with OP totally if this was just Thanksgiving.
The "book I've been reading" was written by Miss Manners herself, Judith Martin, her Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior, and page 275 addresses this situation specifically:
Long-term houseguests, such as this old flame, should excuse themselves in times of family strife, like this one, so they can work out the conflict and celebrate as they are comfortable.
The OP and I have already sorted this out between us. Hopefully you can reconcile your feelings about it as well.
First of all, he's not a long-term house guest, as the OP states he drove up last week. Secondly, I would hardly call a family Christmas dinner a "time of family strife". At least it's not supposed to be! It's a happy time, and a time for coming together, not excluding people from the celebration. That's awful and cruel. Good manners is never making your guest feel uncomfortable. I can't imagine Miss Manners wanting you to make your guest feel unwanted and like they are intruding in your home. Miss Manners is talking about when there is an argument in the living room, it's a good idea for guests and those not involved to make themselves scarce until the yelling stops.
You're right, it's not complicated. The niece needs to get over herself and stop trying to dictate the guests at someone else's home. What does your etiquette book say about that?
And a family Christmas celebration is not the time for family members to sort out any conflicts going on. The OP did the right thing by getting it all sorted out prior to Christmas and not involving her guest in what was going on.
But do we know the niece did that (the bold)? OP doesn't say that her niece or sister demanded she send her friend home! The OP says the niece had a different take on Christmas morning - that it was to be about family with OP guessing she was uncomfortable about the gift giving. The OP announced the visit, the niece with apparently her mom going along then provided her take - they had to say something since OP was expecting them. Now I personally wouldn't have had a problem but then I'm not the niece or sister.
In the end each family member appears to have prioritized. That the sister and niece were to go over the next day for Chinese suggests they are not trying to torpedo the overall visit or make matters difficult for OP.
But for not going along with OP's plans some (not OP although she suggests the niece is difficult with her sister emotionally fragile) call the niece "mentally ill" with a "personality disorder." Frankly, absent more information that strikes me as kind of harsh and judgmental. For all those who discuss inviting others to dinner (which I think wonderful) not too many speak of having those same guests appear in the morning to open gifts with folks perhaps still in their Christmas jammies.
Perhaps the sister and niece were fine in the end staying at home that day. Does anyone suggest they should have made a 'command appearance' per OP's wishes? If the niece really is mentally ill and the sister terribly fragile, OP might have "soothed" them - if and only if she wanted to - by perhaps excusing herself for an hour from her guest (since he's staying for some time) and run over to indulge them in gift-giving - that is, if the homes are located in close proximity? That's not clear.
But absent no apparent drama, it all appears to have worked out fine.
Last edited by EveryLady; 12-26-2019 at 04:56 PM..
First of all, he's not a long-term house guest, as the OP states he drove up last week.
Miss Manners defines "long term" as 3+ days. So yeah, he is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow
Secondly, I would hardly call a family Christmas dinner a "time of family strife". At least it's not supposed to be!
**sigh**
You read the thread, correct?
Ideally, no, it's NOT supposed to be a time of strife. But in the OP's case it is, since her niece and sister refused to come over if the man friend was there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow
It's a happy time, and a time for coming together, not excluding people from the celebration. That's awful and cruel. Good manners is never making your guest feel uncomfortable. I can't imagine Miss Manners wanting you to make your guest feel unwanted and like they are intruding in your home. Miss Manners is talking about when there is an argument in the living room, it's a good idea for guests and those not involved to make themselves scarce until the yelling stops.
No, she isn't.
I can see that you just read what you want to see. I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it anymore.
I think it’s one of the rudest things I’ve ever heard of and would never ask a guest to leave the room so the family could celebrate. Absolutely ridiculous.
Did you read the link? I don't think it has much to do with the scenario described by the OP.
My birthday falls within a week of Christmas. I have a very small family and not many friends so for the past 7 years since I've been divorced I've spent my birthday and usually Christmas eve alone.
Earlier this year I reconnected with a man that I hadn't seen in 4 years. We dated for a while but he moved. We stayed in touch through the years. He DROVE last week to come see me. It's been a wonderful visit. Enter into the picture my 21 year old niece and her mother (my sister). They don't want to come over to my house for Christmas day because my visitor will still be with me. They say Christmas is all about family and they're not comfortable with a stranger. I say he's a guest in my house and that I disagree, I think the holidays should be all about sharing and togetherness regardless of family. Besides, I can't tell my guest to leave.
I could really use my C-D family's input here. Am I the jerk?
That's their prerogative.
The question then becomes how is this handled between the two sisters?
In my case I politely explained to my brother and sister my wife and I wouldn't coming.
But with the OP... her sister made it clear why she didn't want to come. If this ends with one or both sisters very upset it shows how fragile their relationship is.
Although I'm not close to my brother or sisters I do enjoy seeing them every so often. Just not on the Holidays in a living room filled with strangers. Which doesn't make either me or my siblings the bad guy.
"So, Sam, I know I invited you here for Christmas, but my sis and niece are coming for dinner, so I'll need you to sit outside in your car until we're done. I guess you could go hang out at the local truck stop since it's the only place open on Christmas, but I'm sure you won't mind. See you in about six hours."
When I went to my sisters home and two of the women already there came over and started talking about the Japanese garden they put together in their backyard. Meanwhile my sister is in the kitchen for a few hours and my two nieces decide to take off until dinner time.
So my wife and I are stuck chatting with strangers.
Of course my sister thinks this is just great and yes the women were nice.
But f-it.
I'm not doing that again.
John, with people like this you don't wait to be told you ASK THEM.
Upfront on the phone, "BTW who is coming, we want to know so whatever we bring to celebrate with(food or drink) there will be enough".
I had a relative who would do what yours did, I learned to ask in advance "how many people and who they were", and they would blurt it out.
Granted mine was just a car ride away. But going forward ask and if they won't say or are too vague, than you can decide to go or not.
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