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I currently live in Charlotte after having spent the past 9 years in Denver, Colorado and being originally from Philadelphia. Charlotte does strive to be a lot like Atlanta and they are succeeding in crime, traffic and litter. Charlotte has lost its identity in the process. I love the triangle area and want to move there sooner rather than later.
To start, let me quote a friend of mine who, when asked a question about how he liked Richmond, told me: "I didn't know it was possible to move North and South at the same time." This was from a native NY'er who moved to Richmond from Raleigh for job.
Now, on to this man's opinion about why I prefer Raleigh to Richmond:
1. Richmond and VA's commonwealth system of government prevents cities from annexing county land. The result has been much white flight from the city into the county to "escape" Richmond's poverty and crime. Of course, this overt institutional racism has only exacerbated Richmond's problems and caused tension (per my brother's report when he lived there before moving to Charlottesville).
2. Raleigh is more progressive and more open to a variety of people. The fact that Richmond was the capital of the conferderacy is still very palpable in the area....very old school. (also per my brother but I have felt it too when I was there)
3. Raleigh won't become an extended suburb of DC one day :-)
4. Raleigh is high tech and bio tech; Richmond is finance/banks and cigarettes. Both are state capitals but Raleigh is definitely more economically leading edge.
5. Raleigh is still a bit cheaper than Richmond.
6. Richmond has a high crime rate.
7. I can't speak to the schools....I don't know
Why I prefer Raleigh to Charlotte
1. Charlotte is the home of Nascar and the former HQ of Jim Bakker's PTL Club.
2. Charlotte has a higher crime rate.
3. Mecklenburg schools do not perform as well as Wake
4 Raleigh has a higher average education level of its citizens and a larger share of "creative class" professionals.
5. Raleigh and the Triangle are more influenced by university presence than Charlotte
6. Raleigh is closer to the beach
7. Raleigh is more casual while Charlotte is more coat and tie (this is a personal preference)
8. Charlotte abuts South Carolina (sorry...could resist this one)
9. North Carolina's motto is "To be, rather than to seem". Well, my impression of Charlotte is that it spends way too much time trying to "seem"...trying to be Atlanta. Most people in Raleigh will probably tell you that "being Raleigh" is what they want.
10. The Triangle is arguably the intellectual capital of the South. By almost all measures, the intellectual capital of the area ranks in the top tier with Seattle, San Francisco, Boston and Washington DC.
It is possible to move both north AND south... just move from Ft. Lauderdale to Jacksonville!
I took several courses in VA state government, so let's talk about this beast that is Virginia..
It isn't the commonwealth system of government that keeps Virginia municipalities from being able to annex surrounding unincorporated land. There really is no commonwealth system of government - it's just a fancy name for a state. What Virginia does have is a ridiculous law that keeps municipalities from annexing surrounding land. As a state with a largely rural base, rural lawmakers have always reigned supreme in the state legislature. They shamelessly enact laws designed to benefit rural counties and hurt cities. Partly due to racism as well, the ban on annexations was passed. In addition Virginia is one of the few states with a ban on new municipalities being incorporated. That means that new suburban development will always remain in a county, with no city or town governments being created. This is a phenomenon that results in huge counties (Fairfax County has over a million residents) with no city governments. The board of supervisors form of government is ill equipped to deal with urban issues, in my opinion. The last city incorporated in VA was Manassas Park, I believe this was in 1975.
Virginia also is the only state in which cities are independent of the counties they are located within. That means the City of Richmond is a politically independent entity from the County of Henrico; Fairfax City is independent of Fairfax County; etc. Some cities have special agreements with their surrounding counties to provide shared libraries, schools, etc. but all of them have their own courts, police force, and public works departments. To add to the confusion, some of the county seats are independent cities. For example, Fairfax County's courthouse is located within the Fairfax County Public Safety Complex, which is part of Fairfax County but is located in Fairfax City - a county complex located within a city that is surrounded by the county but is not a part of the county. Confusing?
Virginia also follows the Dillon Rule whereby the municipalities have no rights other than those specifically given them by the state. If a Virginia city wants to put up some type of street sign that is not specifically permitted by the politicians in Richmond, they have to go and ask permission. This is in contrast to states like Maryland or California where the municipalities have a great deal of leeway in making their own decisions.
Virginia has a number of other strange laws. We have the new "abuser fees" where a single "reckless driving" ticket can cost you thousands of dollars. Speaking of reckless driving tickets, you don't actually have to be driving recklessly to receive one. All you need to do is go as little as 10 over the limit, and you're a reckless driver according to state law. Any speed 80 or over is automatically reckless, and with some highways posted at 70 miles per hour, it's very easy to get caught by our highly efficient State Police. And don't expect to get let off with a warning either - VA State Police love to hand out tickets, and will do so for anything. Slammed into the guardrail after skidding on black ice, smashed your bumper and bent your axle? No problem, the officer will call a tow truck for you right after he writes your ticket for an expired inspection sticker that is only a few days overdue.
Virginia is the only state that bans radar detectors. The ban is unconstitutional but VA courts never let the appeals make it past the state supreme court - they are always dismissed. That way, it can never make it to the U.S. Supreme Court and have the VA law overturned.
Love theocratic laws? Virginia is the place for you. We have a higher age of consent than most states - 18 versus 16 in most states, so teenage lovers can be thrown in jail at the whim of our unelected judges. Yes, our judges are not elected like in most states. They are appointed by the legislature.
Virginia is one of only two states - the other being Utah - that completely bans adult entertainment establishments (aka strip clubs). Whatever your views on the naked human body, the spirit of our constitution requires that we allow people to make their personal choices on topics such as these. The kind lawmakers of Virginia have made the decision for us, so we are left with establishments that require their female entertainers to wear little stickers over their nipples.
Other Virginia gems - per capita a higher rate of executions (aka capital punishment) than even Texas, making Virginia the #1 state for capital punishment per capita. We have a highly racist justice system slanted against blacks and some of the most brutal state prisons with cruel and unusual punishment. Don't believe me? Google "Red Onion Prison" and read about it for yourself.
Of course Virginia isn't all bad and there are certainly good points to this state, however if you have no family ties to the area, the Raleigh area is far superior in so many ways and it doesn't even make sense to consider Virginia. The only part of the state worth living in is Northern Virginia, just outside of D.C., which is a very diverse, highly educated and affluent area but unfortunately we suffer from extreme traffic congestion and ****-poor decisions by state government that leave us with a highly inadequate infrastructure. FYI, Northern Virginia has almost nothing in common with the rest of the state and is very politically liberal as opposed to the rest of Virginia.
It is possible to move both north AND south... just move from Ft. Lauderdale to Jacksonville!
I took several courses in VA state government, so let's talk about this beast that is Virginia..
It isn't the commonwealth system of government that keeps Virginia municipalities from being able to annex surrounding unincorporated land. There really is no commonwealth system of government - it's just a fancy name for a state. What Virginia does have is a ridiculous law that keeps municipalities from annexing surrounding land. As a state with a largely rural base, rural lawmakers have always reigned supreme in the state legislature. They shamelessly enact laws designed to benefit rural counties and hurt cities. Partly due to racism as well, the ban on annexations was passed. In addition Virginia is one of the few states with a ban on new municipalities being incorporated. That means that new suburban development will always remain in a county, with no city or town governments being created. This is a phenomenon that results in huge counties (Fairfax County has over a million residents) with no city governments. The board of supervisors form of government is ill equipped to deal with urban issues, in my opinion. The last city incorporated in VA was Manassas Park, I believe this was in 1975.
Virginia also is the only state in which cities are independent of the counties they are located within. That means the City of Richmond is a politically independent entity from the County of Henrico; Fairfax City is independent of Fairfax County; etc. Some cities have special agreements with their surrounding counties to provide shared libraries, schools, etc. but all of them have their own courts, police force, and public works departments. To add to the confusion, some of the county seats are independent cities. For example, Fairfax County's courthouse is located within the Fairfax County Public Safety Complex, which is part of Fairfax County but is located in Fairfax City - a county complex located within a city that is surrounded by the county but is not a part of the county. Confusing?
Virginia also follows the Dillon Rule whereby the municipalities have no rights other than those specifically given them by the state. If a Virginia city wants to put up some type of street sign that is not specifically permitted by the politicians in Richmond, they have to go and ask permission. This is in contrast to states like Maryland or California where the municipalities have a great deal of leeway in making their own decisions.
Virginia has a number of other strange laws. We have the new "abuser fees" where a single "reckless driving" ticket can cost you thousands of dollars. Speaking of reckless driving tickets, you don't actually have to be driving recklessly to receive one. All you need to do is go as little as 10 over the limit, and you're a reckless driver according to state law. Any speed 80 or over is automatically reckless, and with some highways posted at 70 miles per hour, it's very easy to get caught by our highly efficient State Police. And don't expect to get let off with a warning either - VA State Police love to hand out tickets, and will do so for anything. Slammed into the guardrail after skidding on black ice, smashed your bumper and bent your axle? No problem, the officer will call a tow truck for you right after he writes your ticket for an expired inspection sticker that is only a few days overdue.
Virginia is the only state that bans radar detectors. The ban is unconstitutional but VA courts never let the appeals make it past the state supreme court - they are always dismissed. That way, it can never make it to the U.S. Supreme Court and have the VA law overturned.
Love theocratic laws? Virginia is the place for you. We have a higher age of consent than most states - 18 versus 16 in most states, so teenage lovers can be thrown in jail at the whim of our unelected judges. Yes, our judges are not elected like in most states. They are appointed by the legislature.
Virginia is one of only two states - the other being Utah - that completely bans adult entertainment establishments (aka strip clubs). Whatever your views on the naked human body, the spirit of our constitution requires that we allow people to make their personal choices on topics such as these. The kind lawmakers of Virginia have made the decision for us, so we are left with establishments that require their female entertainers to wear little stickers over their nipples.
Other Virginia gems - per capita a higher rate of executions (aka capital punishment) than even Texas, making Virginia the #1 state for capital punishment per capita. We have a highly racist justice system slanted against blacks and some of the most brutal state prisons with cruel and unusual punishment. Don't believe me? Google "Red Onion Prison" and read about it for yourself.
Of course Virginia isn't all bad and there are certainly good points to this state, however if you have no family ties to the area, the Raleigh area is far superior in so many ways and it doesn't even make sense to consider Virginia. The only part of the state worth living in is Northern Virginia, just outside of D.C., which is a very diverse, highly educated and affluent area but unfortunately we suffer from extreme traffic congestion and ****-poor decisions by state government that leave us with a highly inadequate infrastructure. FYI, Northern Virginia has almost nothing in common with the rest of the state and is very politically liberal as opposed to the rest of Virginia.
Wow Tarp, very interesting and informative. Thanks for clearing up the issue regarding the annexation laws. I appreciate knowing all the details. I had no idea that VA prevents new cities from being incorporated. What a ridiculous law! I also concur on many of your other points regarding Virginia but was affraid I would be offensive or slammed for airing them. Given that I have not lived in VA, I didn't think it would be appropriate to go there.
Location: Between a nook-a-ler reactor and a dump, North Cackalacky
283 posts, read 1,259,603 times
Reputation: 135
I'm curious how the tidewater/southside counties ceased to exist in favor of the cities such as Suffolk, Norfolk, Chesapeake, Va Beach, Hampton, Newport News, etc? I understand there used to be counties?
I lived in Richmond for 8 years. I could not wait to leave. Richmond is a much more socially vibrant area, the Fan and Church Hill are great neighborhoods, Carytown is fantastic, Shockoe and the area around VCU used to be a lot of fun. Richmond is a city whereas Raleigh is more like one giant suburb. Of course with that urbanism comes many of the urban problems, and that is what made Richmond such a great place from which to flee. Traffic, parking, crime, city government were awful.
Richmond is the only place where I had both African-American people and white people (blue-blood Virginians by Gawd) tell me they were glad to see me leave.
Of course, if you're in Mechanicsville or Midlothian or whatever other ex-urb and don't actually go into the city, ignore this. Suburbia is suburbia is suburbia..........
Since this is the Triangle forum -- I can say that Charlotte does not appeal to me at all Maybe the Atlanta analogy is a good one. Charlotte seems to have more big city problems -- crime, etc.
I don't do well in rural areas. I need sidewalks and grocery stores nearby. But I don't like larger cities for family living. I think the Triangle will be a good fit for me.
Raleigh is not it!!!!!! i have lived here for 8 years!
Charlotte has always felt very different from the rest of NC to me (lifelong resident). It wants to be Atlanta in the worst way. It seems all about the banking industry and pro sports, whereas Raleigh is much more diversified with tech, drug co's, banks etc plus much more a "college town" feel (at least up till the last 10 years).
Ugh. Why would any city want to be Atlanta? bleh! Plus, Atlanta wants to be Los Angeles... And why would any city want to be Los Angeles?
I was in Charlotte today and LOVED it. (But maybe that's because I'm a single professional, used to NY/LA, with a dash of the south.)
I too am from New York, and am trying to figure where is better to live in the State of North Carolina. I too visited Raleigh, Charlotte, and Greensboro areas last year June and was somewhat in love with the Chapel Hill area. While in Charlotte, I stayed at the Blake hotel and did not get to see much, so I can not make a fair assessment of Charlotte. One thing I did remember that impressed me was after my 2 year old daughter was sick (101 temperature) and we took her to the emergency room 2-3 minutes from the hotel; I dropped my daughter and wife off at the door of the emergency room so that I could park the car. By the time I parked the car and walked back to the emergency room, my daughter was already triaged and in a room waiting to see the doctor. I know for a fact that if that was NY we would still be waiting to be triaged by a nurse. That was impressive!
On the other hand, since I now have both 3 year old and 5 year old girls, education is extremely important. I was born in the Caribbean where things are more Floridian in pace and weather etc., but lived in New York since 1985 and still can not stand the place. I loved Atlanta after the Olympics too, but NC now seems to be where my focus is because of similar types of attributes.
In addition, after seeing this about Charlotte I said to myself Hmmm In Pictures: America's Most Miserable Cities - Forbes.com
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Raleigh over Charlotte
Maybe the Atlanta analogy is a good one. Charlotte seems to have more big city problems -- crime, etc.
