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I don't see anything wrong with what ann is saying about Rocky-Mount.
That town is like kinston...nothing but gangs, thugs..etc. down right dangerous! When you get away from Rocky-Mount, in areas like Nasheville, it is really nice.
All you have to is check the crime stats from Rocky Mount, it all speaks for itself.
I live in wilson, wilson is like heaven compared to that place. I have lived in Raleigh, Wilmington, New Bern, Greenville, and now wilson. So I am from the south. I just find nothing pleasant about Rocky Mount. I will not even go shopping there. It is just to bad that Rocky Mount is where most of my family lives on my mothers side....so I have to go there sometimes....
But I don't have a problem with someone likeing Rocky Mount. Everyone has their own opinion. But I rank Rocky Mount and Kinston up there as the worst towns in this state.
I was raised in Kinston for over 20 years though I was born in NY. I would not compare RM to Kinston(K Town). I lived in RM for 4 years and it is nothing like Kinston. I have lived in Northeast (NY), Dirty South (ATL), VA, and NC, and Midwest (IN) near Indianapolis. I have not been to the West yet. My best experiences were in RM. People that have negative comments about RM, venture out to different places beside your comfort zone and you see what I mean. What I mean venture out of your comfort zone, I mean the state of NC and surrounding area states. I am African American and I live in most places African Americans would not considered but because of my husband's job we had to. The last three places I live were not crime infested areas but we had our own challenges. My husband been stopped several times because he was driving a nice car in just one year. They tried to illegally search our car. We have been followed home by the police. We never experienced that in RM. People are not the nicest people in these areas. My son (who is an elementary student) and I have been called the N word twice in upstate NY where I currently live now. This is in NY in a college town at that!!!! I had to teach my son and daughter about racism at the early age of 5. That is sad. Try experiencing this day in and day out. You will literally go crazy. We never experienced that in RM. And the list goes on. One of my husband's colleague is on short term disabilty due to the stress of being here. She is African American. With all of that said, I will pick RM anyday. Of all the places I lived and visited, I like RM. We are planning to move to RM soon. I will say every place have there crimes and problems but you can not make that a prime factor. People say they want to live in a quote on quote good area but it comes with it own problems as I experienced.
this is very disturbing to read these posts, and to read this week in Forbes that Rocky Mount is one of the poorest cities in the country. I grew up in RM in the 1980s when it was a great place for kids. What happened. Particularly, what happened to nice neighborhoods like Meadowbrook, Englewood and Candlewood?
Rocky Mount is a part of Eastern North Carolina which is like Mississippi in terms of poor living statistics. The only city that is thriving is Eastern North Carolina is Greenville. And that's only because it's a college town with the state's 3rd largest public university and a super-regional medical industrial complex tied to that institution.
Rocky Mount was heavily dependent on 2 industries - Tobacco and Textiles. The tobacco industry was neutered because of its unfair trade practices and its obvious threat to public health which resulted in multi-billion dollar settlements in the 1990s that the industry is still paying for to this day. Textiles was killed off by massive divestment and relocation of factories to Mexico, Latin America, and Asians for cheap labor. Both industries employed low skill/no skill workers many high school dropouts or who earned what could be only loosely defined as a high school degree in today's world. Much of the work was "seasonal" so layoffs were common and un-employment has always been higher than the rest of North Carolina. Once those industries dried up it was hard to retrain these folks for the increasingly service-based economy. They have become a part of the underclass of un-employed and under-employed. And they pass their lot on to their children. The city and much of the South or Sunbelt had what we now know as short term success or a resurgence in the 1970s and 80s as manufacturing took advantage of the region's anti-union "right to work" law. But again cheap labor, low restrictions in Latin America and Asia quickly shot that bird.
Southern Cities can loosely be defined as White Wealthy/ Middle Class and Black Working Class/Urban Poor. Middle class whites live in the best parts of the city or in the suburbs. Poor and working class whites live in rural and semi-rural areas in affordable tract houses or double-wide trailers because otherwise they'd have to live side-by-side poor Blacks in the inner city. That's the two sides of White Flight.
So, Rocky Mount's decline is attributed to
1. The decline of the 2 industries (Tobacco and Textiles) it was dependent upon for prosperity (i.e. the lack of a diverse economy)
2. Low educational attainment of the population (makes it hard to attract industry)
3. High tax rates to counter the lack of industry which is counterproductive to attracting new industry.
4. The bad decision on the part of city leaders in the 1970s to invest in their own local government run electric utilities which has saddle the city with a $1 billion debt yielding some the highest utility rates in the nation. This makes it even more difficult to attract industry.
5. 1999's Hurricane Floyd and the 500-year Flood it brought with it. This destroyed large portions of the city. The long term recovery effort was not fast enough and only lead to further decline from any momentum the city gained. Ditto for Tarboro, Kinston, Goldsboro, and Wilson. Greenville survived and rebounded only because of the university.
6. Location in the eastern end of North Carolina's historical Black Belt. The city's large Black population (this group is always disproportionately effected by poverty, health disparities, and other social ills) skews the stats for the whole city which makes it hard to attract new industry)
7. Changes in US Dept. of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) policies on public housing and the shift to more section 8 housing (government subsidized housing voucher program) versus "projects." This is happening throughout the nation. The thinking is that spreading the poor throughout the community will destroy the "culture of poverty" and the cycle of poverty. It is social engineering that is not working. It has made it more difficult of law enforcement to control and "contain" crime. It means that a low income or privately owned income-based housing complex can be built next to a middle class subdivision with $200K homes. Or that a Section 8 single mother can rent a $800 a month 3 bedroom home in a good neighborhood for only $200 out of her pocket. Some poor women or families use it as step up towards getting themselves out the inner city and getting their kids out of the cycle. But most just bring their problems with them to these communities and in many cases bring those places down. You got some folks who have been on Section 8 for more than 20 years. That's hardly uplifting. And there are waiting lists 3 and 4 years long in most areas of the nation. Also, the foreclosure crisis has lead to a record number of property owners applying to get their houses approved for Section 8 housing in order to get tenants whose rent is pretty much guaranteed to cover that mortgage that's too big for their paycheck. You know, the no doc ARM loan they should have never been given to begin with.
Reference: American Murder Mystery - The Atlantic (July/August 2008)
American Murder Mystery: Why is Crime rising in so many American cities? The answer implicates one of the most celebrated anti-poverty programs of recent decades
8. The Great Recession we are currently in. (Nearly 14% unemployment for the city). I live in Raleigh and in the last 2 weeks I've seen more homeless people on the streets of this wealthy capitol city than I have in the ten years I've lived here. Unemployment was 2% here during the last boom. It's 8.4% today. Rock Mount's rate was near double digits during the boom!
To be fair, I don't think Rocky Mount is a Detroit or anywhere near as comparable to South Central LA, Chicago's South Side, NYC's Harlem or Richmond, Virginia's South Side. Between 8 to 10 people are murdered each year and the highest total in any year has been 14. Less than 10 years ago the city had an historic low of 2 murders in 1 year. But it must be noted that the murder stats a skewed because of a serial killer targeting Black female prostitutes that was recently apprehended.
The Olive Garden and Talbot's don't locate in ghettos. Nor does the prestigious Ford's Colony whose second location is in Rocky Mount (Williamsburg is the first). It's one of the few small cities with an endowed library (think Baltimore's Enoch Pratt Library). And for clarification, Rocky Mount only has a modest Black majority (56%) that has remain virtually static. The city is 41% white. Most of these whites live in good neighborhoods that are predominantly white and west of US Highway 301 (Wesleyan Boulevard) which is 4 lane divided road that is not pedestrian-friendly. It is the de-facto main street for the city and is the new dividing line that replaced the railroad tracks as the line of demarcation between the haves and the have-nots. The vast majority of the working class and low income folks live east of 301 and that where the majority of the crime is. The only whites living on the east side are those who are hanging on to the past, to what "once was." Or, to people that find "historic preservation" fashionable and want a 1920's era home on a large lot and don't mind being victimized on occasion by burglars. It's never had a Black mayor and the city council is balanced 50% white and 50% black. The Black represent the east side and the whites and white mayor represent the west side. It pretty much lacks racial diversity. It is a Black/White town.
The city has actually added approximately 2,000 people since 2000 which is remarkable after it saw a natural disaster related decline in 1999. However much of that increase is due to the city taking advantage of NC's liberal annexation policies which promotes "health cities."
So, although it's on Forbes' List of Poorest Cities, things are not as bad as it seems. There is a method to the madness and reason for the stats.
Link to the towns reaction:
Rocky Mount named one of America's most impoverished cities - News | (http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/rocky-mount-named-one-of-americas-most-impoverished-cities-906863.html - broken link)
Rocky Mount is a part of Eastern North Carolina which is like Mississippi in terms of poor living statistics. The only city that is thriving is Eastern North Carolina is Greenville. And that's only because it's a college town with the state's 3rd largest public university and a super-regional medical industrial complex tied to that institution.
Rocky Mount was heavily dependent on 2 industries - Tobacco and Textiles. The tobacco industry was neutered because of its unfair trade practices and its obvious threat to public health which resulted in multi-billion dollar settlements in the 1990s that the industry is still paying for to this day. Textiles was killed off by massive divestment and relocation of factories to Mexico, Latin America, and Asians for cheap labor. Both industries employed low skill/no skill workers many high school dropouts or who earned what could be only loosely defined as a high school degree in today's world. Much of the work was "seasonal" so layoffs were common and un-employment has always been higher than the rest of North Carolina. Once those industries dried up it was hard to retrain these folks for the increasingly service-based economy. They have become a part of the underclass of un-employed and under-employed. And they pass their lot on to their children. The city and much of the South or Sunbelt had what we now know as short term success or a resurgence in the 1970s and 80s as manufacturing took advantage of the region's anti-union "right to work" law. But again cheap labor, low restrictions in Latin America and Asia quickly shot that bird.
Southern Cities can loosely be defined as White Wealthy/ Middle Class and Black Working Class/Urban Poor. Middle class whites live in the best parts of the city or in the suburbs. Poor and working class whites live in rural and semi-rural areas in affordable tract houses or double-wide trailers because otherwise they'd have to live side-by-side poor Blacks in the inner city. That's the two sides of White Flight.
So, Rocky Mount's decline is attributed to
1. The decline of the 2 industries (Tobacco and Textiles) it was dependent upon for prosperity (i.e. the lack of a diverse economy)
2. Low educational attainment of the population (makes it hard to attract industry)
3. High tax rates to counter the lack of industry which is counterproductive to attracting new industry.
4. The bad decision on the part of city leaders in the 1970s to invest in their own local government run electric utilities which has saddle the city with a $1 billion debt yielding some the highest utility rates in the nation. This makes it even more difficult to attract industry.
5. 1999's Hurricane Floyd and the 500-year Flood it brought with it. This destroyed large portions of the city. The long term recovery effort was not fast enough and only lead to further decline from any momentum the city gained. Ditto for Tarboro, Kinston, Goldsboro, and Wilson. Greenville survived and rebounded only because of the university.
6. Location in the eastern end of North Carolina's historical Black Belt. The city's large Black population (this group is always disproportionately effected by poverty, health disparities, and other social ills) skews the stats for the whole city which makes it hard to attract new industry)
7. Changes in US Dept. of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) policies on public housing and the shift to more section 8 housing (government subsidized housing voucher program) versus "projects." This is happening throughout the nation. The thinking is that spreading the poor throughout the community will destroy the "culture of poverty" and the cycle of poverty. It is social engineering that is not working. It has made it more difficult of law enforcement to control and "contain" crime. It means that a low income or privately owned income-based housing complex can be built next to a middle class subdivision with $200K homes. Or that a Section 8 single mother can rent a $800 a month 3 bedroom home in a good neighborhood for only $200 out of her pocket. Some poor women or families use it as step up towards getting themselves out the inner city and getting their kids out of the cycle. But most just bring their problems with them to these communities and in many cases bring those places down. You got some folks who have been on Section 8 for more than 20 years. That's hardly uplifting. And there are waiting lists 3 and 4 years long in most areas of the nation. Also, the foreclosure crisis has lead to a record number of property owners applying to get their houses approved for Section 8 housing in order to get tenants whose rent is pretty much guaranteed to cover that mortgage that's too big for their paycheck. You know, the no doc ARM loan they should have never been given to begin with.
Reference: American Murder Mystery - The Atlantic (July/August 2008)
American Murder Mystery: Why is Crime rising in so many American cities? The answer implicates one of the most celebrated anti-poverty programs of recent decades
8. The Great Recession we are currently in. (Nearly 14% unemployment for the city). I live in Raleigh and in the last 2 weeks I've seen more homeless people on the streets of this wealthy capitol city than I have in the ten years I've lived here. Unemployment was 2% here during the last boom. It's 8.4% today. Rock Mount's rate was near double digits during the boom!
To be fair, I don't think Rocky Mount is a Detroit or anywhere near as comparable to South Central LA, Chicago's South Side, NYC's Harlem or Richmond, Virginia's South Side. Between 8 to 10 people are murdered each year and the highest total in any year has been 14. Less than 10 years ago the city had an historic low of 2 murders in 1 year. But it must be noted that the murder stats a skewed because of a serial killer targeting Black female prostitutes that was recently apprehended.
The Olive Garden and Talbot's don't locate in ghettos. Nor does the prestigious Ford's Colony whose second location is in Rocky Mount (Williamsburg is the first). It's one of the few small cities with an endowed library (think Baltimore's Enoch Pratt Library). And for clarification, Rocky Mount only has a modest Black majority (56%) that has remain virtually static. The city is 41% white. Most of these whites live in good neighborhoods that are predominantly white and west of US Highway 301 (Wesleyan Boulevard) which is 4 lane divided road that is not pedestrian-friendly. It is the de-facto main street for the city and is the new dividing line that replaced the railroad tracks as the line of demarcation between the haves and the have-nots. The vast majority of the working class and low income folks live east of 301 and that where the majority of the crime is. The only whites living on the east side are those who are hanging on to the past, to what "once was." Or, to people that find "historic preservation" fashionable and want a 1920's era home on a large lot and don't mind being victimized on occasion by burglars. It's never had a Black mayor and the city council is balanced 50% white and 50% black. The Black represent the east side and the whites and white mayor represent the west side. It pretty much lacks racial diversity. It is a Black/White town.
The city has actually added approximately 2,000 people since 2000 which is remarkable after it saw a natural disaster related decline in 1999. However much of that increase is due to the city taking advantage of NC's liberal annexation policies which promotes "health cities."
So, although it's on Forbes' List of Poorest Cities, things are not as bad as it seems. There is a method to the madness and reason for the stats.
Link to the towns reaction:
Rocky Mount named one of America's most impoverished cities - News | (http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/rocky-mount-named-one-of-americas-most-impoverished-cities-906863.html - broken link)
Great post. But Greenville is not the only eastern NC town thriving. I would add Wilson, New Bern, Havelock, and Wilmington to that list.
I live in Wilson right now....and I can tell you for sure Wilson is doing great right now....during a recession! New Bern has incredible growth going on downtown right now...although they did lose some projects during the recession.
I was raised in Kinston for over 20 years though I was born in NY. I would not compare RM to Kinston(K Town). I lived in RM for 4 years and it is nothing like Kinston. I have lived in Northeast (NY), Dirty South (ATL), VA, and NC, and Midwest (IN) near Indianapolis. I have not been to the West yet. My best experiences were in RM. People that have negative comments about RM, venture out to different places beside your comfort zone and you see what I mean. What I mean venture out of your comfort zone, I mean the state of NC and surrounding area states. I am African American and I live in most places African Americans would not considered but because of my husband's job we had to. The last three places I live were not crime infested areas but we had our own challenges. My husband been stopped several times because he was driving a nice car in just one year. They tried to illegally search our car. We have been followed home by the police. We never experienced that in RM. People are not the nicest people in these areas. My son (who is an elementary student) and I have been called the N word twice in upstate NY where I currently live now. This is in NY in a college town at that!!!! I had to teach my son and daughter about racism at the early age of 5. That is sad. Try experiencing this day in and day out. You will literally go crazy. We never experienced that in RM. And the list goes on. One of my husband's colleague is on short term disabilty due to the stress of being here. She is African American. With all of that said, I will pick RM anyday. Of all the places I lived and visited, I like RM. We are planning to move to RM soon. I will say every place have there crimes and problems but you can not make that a prime factor. People say they want to live in a quote on quote good area but it comes with it own problems as I experienced.
Yeah. I have a black friend who is a chef. He moved out to Wyoming to some resort for a job. He said he has been called the N word several times since being there. He grew up in wilson and said he has never been called that here. He also said that the people who called him that acted like they had not even said it....like it was no big deal. Guess it has something to do with near zero black population in those areas. ??????
Great post. But Greenville is not the only eastern NC town thriving. I would add Wilson, New Bern, Havelock, and Wilmington to that list.
I live in Wilson right now....and I can tell you for sure Wilson is doing great right now....during a recession! New Bern has incredible growth going on downtown right now...although they did lose some projects during the recession.
Thanks. I've traveled to most of the major towns in the state. I read the online editions of most the states daily newspapers. I also keep up with economic trends. Our state as a whole is starting to lose out to our top 2 competitors, Virginia and Georgia. Much of this has to do with tax policies that are perceived as not business friendly. And incentives is not the answer, as we've learned the hard way with the Dell plant fiasco in Winston-Salem.
New Bern has a small but wonderful historic district. It's downtown is relatively small, yet thriving. It needs to redevelop that very old low income housing project adjacent to downtown that is located on prime waterfront property to call it a 100% successful revitalization project. Quite a lot of crack heads and idle citizens walking around. Craven County (New Bern and Havelock) has two things going for it, a large Marine Corps Air Station and proximity to the ocean (Morehead City and Atlantic Beach). US70 is a major thruway for beach goers. However, the towns and county are not exactly thriving for those outside of the military industrial complex and tourism. By your criteria, Jacksonville, NC is thriving. But it's entire economy is centered around the Camp Lejune Marine Corps Base.
Eastern North Carolina is loosely defined as points east of I-95 and north of US Highway 70. However, this is not a hard boundary. As you should be very well aware from living there, it's boundaries bleed a good deal south of US 70 and somewhat west of I-95. Wilmington, Jacksonville, and Fayetteville are consider a part of the Southeastern Region of the state. That might not have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but the region has push for a somewhat separate identity from Eastern North Carolina. Jacksonville being on the north side of that region continues to have a somewhat dual identity. But at this point, you can't count Wilmington as a part of Eastern North Carolina anymore than you can Fayetteville.
Perhaps Wilson is doing great for you which is great. Unfortunately, the same does not hold true for many people in that town. You are looking at Wilson from the inside out. From the outside looking in, Wilson and Rocky Mount are nearly identical statistically. Both have populations under 60,000. Both have large Black populations and for Wilson a significant Hispanic population. They have high taxes and utility rates. Wilson suffered less damage from Hurricane Floyd, but was still heavily impacted by the storm. Crime is a major issue. Both have low educational attainment which is a result of economies once centered on Tobacco and Textiles. Wilson continues to have a significant portion of it's economy and workforce tied to tobacco which is absurd. It also has relatively high unemployment in good and bad times. The two bright sides for Wilson is BB&T which has major operations there and employs nearly 2,000 people from my understanding, and Bridgestone which employs over 2,000 people. I know people who commute from Wake County for employment at the BB&T Operations Center which is soon to become a NOC (Network Operations Center) with mostly good paying IT jobs that will unfortunately not employ many locals because they lack the skill set. One of my neighbors commutes to Bridgestone and he says the plant has people commuting from like a 50 mile radius (Kinston, Roanoke Rapids). He said unfortunately the Japanese have restructure the plant. The wages and benefits for all new hires after 2007 is no where near what the old timers there get. Such a wage structure change from a large employer usually has negative long term consequences. My wife works for the state and she says they have quite a few people, at least where she works, commuting from Wilson. So, I guess Wilson is somewhat becoming a commuter town for Raleigh.
Wilson also has great barbecue and hasn't done enough to promote that fact like Lexington which has a huge bbq festival every year.
True, Havelock's economy might be centered around the base, but is that a bad thing, when Cherry Point is the largest and highing paying employer in eastern NC and growing larger with the two additional hornet squadrons moving to the base, creating more jobs and more tax revenue? The medical field is also an area of growth in the area with the large number of retirees and older transplants moving to the area. i own a house in Havelock with has grown about 50% in value since I bought it in 2004 and have had no problem renting out due to the presence of the base. In the last several years, more & more business are being opened in havelock on the coat tails of Walmart and in anticipation of the population boom. New businesses have opened and are flourishing in the wildwood area outside MHC. Speaking of tourism, the down economy has actually been a boon to MHC an dthe crytal coast, as people are vactioning closer to home vice going all the way to florida and people looking for an alternative to the myrtle beach. The seafood festival in MHC a few weeks ago had the highest attendance in years.
In summary, I think you're selling short Carteret and Craven county when you say they're economy is built aorund the military and tourism when those are both growing and viable industries in the area. Moreso right now than tech in the triangle and banking in Charlotte.
I think you're mostly incorrect about Jacksonville being part of the SE, it's more closely associated economically and culturally with eastern region. I'd consider it more the southern boundary of eastern NC, than the northern boundary of SE NC. People in Jacksonville are more likely to travel up 24 to EI/atlantic beach to go to the beach rather than go to wilmington or other even closer beaches south of J'ville. Prior to growth retail in craven/carteret, locals were more apt to shoot down 17 or 24 to go to jacksonville to shop vice going to Greenville. Speaking of Greenville, it's really a separate area. i know alot people who don't even consider it coastal carolina. Greenville is more closely asscoiated with lenoir, greene, and beaufort counties.
New Bern has a small but wonderful historic district. It's downtown is relatively small, yet thriving. It needs to redevelop that very old low income housing project adjacent to downtown that is located on prime waterfront property to call it a 100% successful revitalization project. Quite a lot of crack heads and idle citizens walking around.
That neighborhood is next to mine ...and all of us agree it needs to be developed. I don't necessarily see it as a problem because of who lives there, but more because it is a waste of potential tax revenue and further development. Waterfront public housing does not make good economic sense - never mind the structures are fairly decrepit and the buildings closest to the river have water issues. However (I've heard about 10 different stories and who knows which is true) - there is actually a lease issue associated with the property. Some say it is up in 5 years, other 10, others never... The latest story I heard was 5 years. We'll see!
Exactly right, Billjr.. By the way, the only reason I dropped by this thread is because I have always liked Rocky Mount and I saw it in the title. I'd love to go back to Rocky Mount!
Pretty laughable post. Rocky Mount is around 70 percent black now. Even a lot of the western side is african american now.
Well he did cite the US freaking census as his source so I'm a little more inclined to go with his stats.
Thanks for the great post assassins_creed, nice to see some well reasoned thoughts on here.
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I'd love to go back to Rocky Mount! 
