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Until you can prove that God does not exist and people of the same sex can reproduce and repopulate the world, the majority, (Christian majority), will not concede to your cause.
Many heterosexuals cannot "reproduce and repopulate the world," - either for biological reasons or, in some cases, because they simply do not want to. Is there something wrong with those people as well? Shoukd they be treated differently because of their inability to repopulate?
And since you are speaking of, "the world," you do realize that Christianity is not the religion with the most followers in the world - other religions have much larger numbers of followers / believers.
As for god's existence (it makes no sense in this thread but here goes)...I love that argument. Why don't you prove that he does? That's right - faith does not need proof. But assuming there is a god and he made the world....then he must have made gay people - that can't have been a mistake because if it was, then that means god is not infallable...which circles back to an entire theological discussion....
But let's ground this discussion and bring it back to the point at hand. You have certain religious beliefs that I do not share. However, I would never advocate taking away your rights to practice your religion and believe what you choose to believe. The fact that you have such a belief system does not affect my personal life or my family or my marriage. How does allowing other people to live their lives according to different belifs and values directly threaten or affect your life or that of your family?
Your really reaching. You'll not find anyone more patriotic than I am! The constitution will not save my soul!
No it won't, and neither will the preacher man or his bible. Not saying you are a bad person, just the reality that you, and I, and the cockroach looking for a snack in your kitchen are merely different species that have evolved on this little rock, and not a single soul to be found.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racewire20
In America today, as a human being, American citizen, what rights does a gay person not have that I do? Marriage? To be so liberal, why does that matter? They have the right to work, the right to vote, they have the right to be who they want to be and say what they want to say. So please educate me. If Christianity is not an issue or deciding factor, why do gays want the blessing of god to be together as one?
Sorry if I hurt you feelings. It was not intended. I feel I have been quite clear where I stand, yet the replies would indicate otherwise. Refere to first response in this post.
Agreed. Could you please point me in the direction of the post where I said that gays weren't worthy of legal recognition. I've got nothing against a government issued license for a civil union. Marriage has a different meaning to me!
You did not hurt my feelings, but you were rude & insulting.
You did not deny gays the right to a church wedding. Episcopalians have been doing gay marriages for decades. You did not deny the right to a civil marriage. That was already against the law. You did, however deny the right to a civil union, recognition of commonlaw marriages from other states (Oops, that's heterosexuals) and you denied recognition of domestic partnerships. Domestic partnerships can be heterosexual or homosexual, & include elderly who can not marry because of social security laws.
If you supported Amendment One, you supported gays not having legal recognition. The amendment not only banned gay marriage, but also all civil unions besides one man and one woman.
Ok, here's the deal. Have it reworded, don't bundle it, and throw it up for another vote.
In reality, my 1st thoughts were the republican party engineered the whole amendment the way it was to force Obama to side, (for gay marriage) like he did, because they will use it full on come election time. I guarantee it! Think what you may, but gays are a minority (don't read into that!) this issue will be a huge deciding factor come November.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tober138
Then no one should be judging anyone - let people live their lives however they want, which includes being straight, gay, asexual, polyamourous...whatever. Leave em alone and let god sort em out later.
Yes, I'm good with that!
What they do show is that there is a segment of the population who not only thinks homosexuality is wrong, but that is also openly hostile towards that segment of the population that is gay. And, unfortunately, this is is a subgroup of those individuals who supported amendment 1 and are ranting and raving about such nebulous things as, "the sanctity of marriage".
Actually, a lot of us heterosexual people have a lot of disdain as well. The reason for said disdain is because they are essentially forcing their religios beliefs upon everyone. If they feel that homosexuality and homosexual unions are not "right" per their religious beliefs...that's fine. They can therefore not engage in homosexual relations, and otherwise live their own lives according to their principles and beliefs. But why do they have to enforce their belief system on everyone else in the state? No one is stopping them for doing what they believe is "right" - but why can they not live their lives and not be so concerned about how other people live theirs? Unless their faith is so week they need the validation that comes from the passage of such legislation.
I have no respect for our current government, and I sure as heck do not need them to validate my beliefs. I have my beliefs, others have theirs. This is a democratic society, and we vote on things. Unfortunately, this one did not go well for some. Not totally my fault, but it is my duty and privilege to vote as I see fit. Don't hate the player, hate the game!
So the "believers" (to use your term) then DO care what others do, if they have to validate their own beliefs through the law of the land. If they didn't care what others do, then they would not have a need to enforce their religious beliefs on others through legislation.
Truly, I really don't mind. What I do mind is, putting it in front of my kids. In a way, you are forcing alternative ideals on a majority of people that may not want it in the mainstream! Why do I have to be forced to explain this to them? If it is made mainstream, then the next step will be incorporating it in schools. Why? It is undoubtably an alternative lifestyle, and should be considered in an alternative way. I'm not saying that they should not be afforded the same benefits as heterosexual, but I am saying that as a minority they must adhere to the majorities wishes. This country has bent over backwards to make sure the little man's feelings are not hurt with all the political correctness, but i think the people have had enough. I truly believe a backlash is brewing (again, do not read too much into this), against all the BS that average person has to deal with just to satisfy the chest beating minority groups.
In today's America, we all are free to be what we want to be, to do what we want to do and the only limiting factor is themselves. If someone today claims that they are being held back. It's their own fault and nothing more than an excuse for their own shortcomings!
Well you have a segment of the population who are being denied certain rights and who are being told by the state that they are an inferior class of citizen. How do you expect them to react
I personally know a handful of gays, and I have never treated them as a second class citizens. Don't make more of this than it really is!
I do not quite get this statement, if only because being straight does not automatically make one "normal".
Ok, normal, by definition, probably was not the right word. How about mainstream?
But that aside - you are not comfortable with homosexuality - that's fine. That is something where you and I could simply have a difference of opinion. But why is it not enough to live your life that way - don't date people of your own geneder, don't associate with homosexuals if you care not to. But how would the defeat of Amendment 1 made that more difficult for you to do? It would not have affected your ability to live your life the way you choose, and to believe the things you believe, one bit.
No it wouldn't affect me at all. I would have gone against my beliefs to voted differently. Can you not repect that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tober138
Many heterosexuals cannot "reproduce and repopulate the world," - either for biological reasons or, in some cases, because they simply do not want to. Is there something wrong with those people as well? Shoukd they be treated differently because of their inability to repopulate?
Come on, really? Want me to make a case that the world is flat? I'm really weighing logic. These questions are purely in a quest for insight. You'll have to make a better case than that.
And since you are speaking of, "the world," you do realize that Christianity is not the religion with the most followers in the world - other religions have much larger numbers of followers / believers.
And what is their stance on the issue? However, this vote was in the US, and Christianity is the predominate religion in tis country.
As for god's existence (it makes no sense in this thread but here goes)...I love that argument. Why don't you prove that he does? That's right - faith does not need proof. But assuming there is a god and he made the world....then he must have made gay people - that can't have been a mistake because if it was, then that means god is not infallable...which circles back to an entire theological discussion....
But let's ground this discussion and bring it back to the point at hand. You have certain religious beliefs that I do not share. However, I would never advocate taking away your rights to practice your religion and believe what you choose to believe. The fact that you have such a belief system does not affect my personal life or my family or my marriage. How does allowing other people to live their lives according to different belifs and values directly threaten or affect your life or that of your family?
Sometimes, you just have to believe! Can you see air, no but you breath it. Can you see the wind, no but you can feel it's power. Can you see gravity, no but step off a tall building. Just because I cannot see all forces around me, does not mean they do not affect me. I am sorry you do not believe. That is your right. It's your choice.
True, god is incapable of making mistakes. People are born two ways, male and female. I cannot explain the cause of their decision. However it is a decision. God gives us the freedom to make choices and life is full of choices, some good, some bad. Some right, some wrong, but in the end,we must own our decisions outright.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native
No it won't, and neither will the preacher man or his bible. Not saying you are a bad person, just the reality that you, and I, and the cockroach looking for a snack in your kitchen are merely different species that have evolved on this little rock, and not a single soul to be found.
You know, you may very well be right, but what a sad thought. I do find comfort in, if he doesn't exist, it will just be lights out. If he doesn't exist, it will suck to be you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
You did not hurt my feelings, but you were rude & insulting.
You did not deny gays the right to a church wedding. Episcopalians have been doing gay marriages for decades. You did not deny the right to a civil marriage. That was already against the law. You did, however deny the right to a civil union, recognition of commonlaw marriages from other states (Oops, that's heterosexuals) and you denied recognition of domestic partnerships. Domestic partnerships can be heterosexual or homosexual, & include elderly who can not marry because of social security laws.
You know, you may very well be right, but what a sad thought. I do find comfort in, if he doesn't exist, it will just be lights out. If he doesn't exist, it will suck to be you!
Ah yes, play the Pascal's Wager card.
If you choose to spend eternity groveling at the egomaniac god you envision, more power to you. Reason and just plain old common sense tells me that ain't in the cards and I shan't wast my time thinking about it.
If you choose to spend eternity groveling at the egomaniac god you envision, more power to you. Reason and just plain old common sense tells me that ain't in the cards and I shan't wast my time thinking about it.
What are you so scared of? That is just a reaction to irrational fear, the only true hold religion has on those that can't think beyond the fear most have been taught from cradle to grave.
In America today, as a human being, American citizen, what rights does a gay person not have that I do? Marriage? To be so liberal, why does that matter? They have the right to work, the right to vote, they have the right to be who they want to be and say what they want to say. So please educate me. If Christianity is not an issue or deciding factor, why do gays want the blessing of god to be together as one?
The issue of same-sex marriage IS NOT about "wanting the blessing of god to be together as one"! It is about LEGAL, CIVIL protections. Gay people who want religious unions already have them in certain churches who bless them, but this carries no legal weight to protect the partners in the event of death or hospitalization. I don't know anybody who believes that any church should be forced to marry two people it doesn't want to--but they do believe that two people should be able to go to the courthouse or city hall and get a CIVIL marriage to get the same protections legally-married couples get instantly as soon as they say "I do". And before you say "Well I don't have a problem with that", well, your Amendment One has now banned any such recognition, so either you are lying or you were too ignorant about what you voted for to pay attention to the vastly overreaching nature of this bill, which went way beyond "marriage".
It's about CIVIL marriages, not religion.
Quote:
Ok, here's the deal. Have it reworded, don't bundle it, and throw it up for another vote.
Too late now--it is part of the constitution. If you wanted it reworded, the proper vote was "against". Then you could have written your legislators and told them to simplify the wording next time, and put it back on the ballot again if they wanted. But it's too late now--ignorance and misunderstanding of what people were voting for has caused NC to now have one of the most oppressive, overreaching, big government laws in the USA, permanently enshrined into our constitution.
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