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Um you just twisted your words. I mentioned I knew people who go to Charlotte on the weekends (for nightlife), apparently you didn't comprehend that. I do not know anyone, or why anyone would go to Raleigh. Charlotte is fairly large enough to stand on it's own, as it has been. Raleigh however, relies on Durham and Chapel Hill to increase it's importance.
Plus, Charlotte attracts way more businessman and women that Raleigh ever could.
And about SouthPark the mall... For one, it's a mall, so if chain stores and restaurants aren't what you like, don't even bring it up. Two, it's one of the largest malls in the country, and sure beats any type of shopping Raleigh offers. Three, SouthPark is an entire neighborhood, which offers more than just chain stores and restaurants.
The fact that you claim SouthPark mall as Charlotte's trophy is hilarious. Raleigh has CrabTree Valley mall and SouthPoint mall (20 min drive from Raleigh, it takes 20 mins to drive from downtown Charlotte to SouthPark). SouthPark area lacks culture and personality. How do I even explain this?? It's very DRY.
I do give points to SouthPark for having the Whole Foods Market and Dean & Deluca (Charlotte should be proud of that). Sadly, the Whole Foods Market (two) in Raleigh blows the one in Charlotte. More variety!
Also a think about Richard Florida - seems he himself said you can't really judge a city solely by the very critera that some are - especially as those who somehow think Raleigh has but Charlotte does not.
Have you read the article you posted? I strictly speaking for the creative class when I say Raleigh is a better city than Charlotte. The article claims Raleigh and Austin as a creative class hot spot.
Richard Florida is revisiting the trickle down effect. That's a separate topic. It doesn't apply to Charlotte vs Raleigh debate here. If anything, Charlotte is way too conservative compared to Raleigh so it has other problems coming.
Look my point is simple. For the "creative class", Raleigh is a better city to live in. If you just want a 9-5 job, service industry jobs and not really part of the "creative/cultured/hip" class, then Charlotte is great.
Charlotte and Raleigh both have a long way to go to reach the status of a world class city. On a side note, being compared to DC is a compliment for a city. Being compared to Atlanta ... i'll leave it at that.
Here's some academic research. The best cities lists for "young professionals" and "families with children" list Raleigh in the top 5 among mid size cities. Charlotte is NO WHERE to be seen while Raleigh is considered among the best in the US.
Look my point is simple. For the "creative class", Raleigh is a better city to live in. If you just want a 9-5 job, service industry jobs and not really part of the "creative/cultured/hip" class, then Charlotte is great.
The truth is that one can find all classes of people within every city. There are bankers in Raleigh and there are the so-called "creative class" gays/lesbians in Charlotte. If you'd been keeping up with recent politics, you would know that Charlotte has two openly gay city council members now.
Quote: Maddalon also becomes the council’s second openly gay member. LaWana Mayfield became the first openly gay person to serve on the council when she was elected in 2011. Maddalon said it was a “non-issue” for the City Council members. “It just doesn’t seem to be relevant anymore,” he said. Plaza Midwood’s Billy Maddalon selected for City Council seat | CharlotteObserver.com
Also, the 28205 zip code in east Charlotte has more same sex households than any other zip code in the state. Much of Charlotte's Plaza Midwood and Noda neighborhoods are in this zip code.
Quote: In the state, Charlotte’s 28205 ZIP code had more same-sex couples than any other ZIP code statewide. Encompassing a large swath of East Charlotte — including Plaza-Midwood, NoDa, parts of Elizabeth and parts of the 7th St./Monroe and Central Ave. corridors — 28205 is home to dozens of LGBT-owned or -friendly businesses, bars, coffee shops, antique stores and neighborhoods. At one time, Charlotte’s gay bookstore, White Rabbit, and the Lesbian & Gay Community Center found themselves at home in Plaza-Midwood. qnotes’ offices are here, too. Large LGBT presence key to East Charlotte development | QNotes Gay Charlotte and LGBT Carolina News, Arts & Entertainment
Here are some neighborhoods in Charlotte that attract the so-called "creative class".
Here's some academic research. The best cities lists for "young professionals" and "families with children" list Raleigh in the top 5 among mid size cities. Charlotte is NO WHERE to be seen while Raleigh is considered among the best in the US.
I debated even replying to you because no matter what anyone says you make an end run around their point without addressing facts. I mean look at this last post - you post Richard Florida as proof of something about Raleigh when several of us have already provided links where Richard Florida himself basically said don't make any broad assumptions about the health of a city based on his ideas of a creative class.
At least you stopped trying to make Raleigh seem like it was a better city because it had a 4-5 hour drive to Washington DC Though I have a sneaky suspicion that you still think that when you speak of how great Raleigh is (which I don't deny Raleigh is a great city) you liberally (ha ha - I'm making a pun - did you get it?) pull in Chapel Hill, Durham, and Cary which I'm afraid your high level of education still doesn't allow you to understand are their own cities. If you want to start a thread entitled The entire Triangle region (and Washington D.C., apparently) against Charlotte - go ahead - but that's not this thread.
At the end of the day all you have is your personal belief that Raleigh is the better city - and you know what - that's just spiffy. But where you continually fail is trying to prove that point for anyone but yourself. You try to speak for others, you claim to be the voice of the liberal elite of a certain age, but at the bottom of the barrel of your depth of understanding is but you echoing out only your personal experiences and feelings.
But let's look at the numbers - which has attracted, and continues to attract the most people: The City of Charlotte. Now believe it, or not, a large segment of those (if not most of the yearly influx) is *GASPS* young educated professionals.
Yet we don't just crow about that here because we recognize that cities are more than young professionals. We also attract families, immigrants, middle age people, and by golly - even non-college graduate workers - because you know what? - Major cities need all those populations to grow and thrive.
So go ahead and focus all of your arguments on the fiction that Raleigh is better than Charlotte solely because you believe it is the only choice (along with your definition of Raleigh as all of the Triangle) for young college educated professionals in the state. Outside of the census data proving you wrong, the rest of us will just chuckle because we all know that the only thing you are doing is a disservice to your chosen city by making it seem like nothing more than a college town.
The truth is that one can find all classes of people within every city. There are bankers in Raleigh and there are the so-called "creative class" gays/lesbians in Charlotte. If you'd been keeping up with recent politics, you would know that Charlotte has two openly gay city council members now.
I would also like to point out that Charlotte's Pride event is the largest in the state (both Carolinas, actually) and this year will include a parade. It also is the HQ of QNotes, the state's LGBT paper, two LGBT travel and nightlife guides: Pocket Rocket (monthly pub of clubs available in most LGBT establishments) and Visit Gay Charlotte - an online resource that boasts the largest calendar of events for LGBTs in the state.
It's funny that Charlotte is given this reputation as not attracting liberal young college educated people when it has the most LGBT establishments, media, and organizations in the state. [sarcasm] How can that be if according to Johann we are a city of uneducated, middle age and elderly, non-professionals [/sarcasm]
I guess it means one of two things: Either Johan66 is wrong about only Raleigh attracting the young educated and elite, or maybe, just maybe, every other population that is excluded from Johann's theories has the ability to be open minded and supporting of the endeavors and ideas that is trumped in the "creative class".
The fact that you claim SouthPark mall as Charlotte's trophy is hilarious. Raleigh has CrabTree Valley mall and SouthPoint mall (20 min drive from Raleigh, it takes 20 mins to drive from downtown Charlotte to SouthPark). SouthPark area lacks culture and personality. How do I even explain this?? It's very DRY.
I do give points to SouthPark for having the Whole Foods Market and Dean & Deluca (Charlotte should be proud of that). Sadly, the Whole Foods Market (two) in Raleigh blows the one in Charlotte. More variety!
The fact you have to take away the obvious from SouthPark, and Charlotte in general is enough to prove Charlotte is obviously in a higher tier.
Crabtree or Southpoint do no offer the same level of stores or restaurants SouthPark does. SouthPark's personality is luxurious. What's Crabtree and Southpoint's personality? Sprawl.
The Whole Foods in Charlotte is much bigger, cleaner, and offers morethan either of the two Raleigh stores, not to mention neither of the Raleigh stores have anything like the tasting loft or the cooking school that the Charlotte store has.
You probably don't even live in NC and are going by Google maps.
My point was that for the "creative class", Raleigh has more to offer. Also, Raleigh is more liberal than Charlotte so I think the "non creative class" is better off in Raleigh.
And MY point is that the "creative class" isn't all that it's cracked up to be; it's certainly not any sort of urban savior and its overall influence is pretty limited. It's more niched and doesn't have the economic impact that more traditional industries do. And how does Raleigh being more liberal translate into the "non-creative class" being better off in Raleigh?
Quote:
Raleigh has better upward income mobility than Charlotte for the bottom income folks, as per latest research from Harvard and UC Berkeley.
Raleigh's is "better" it's still in the tank along with Charlotte's. The difference is quite negligible really.
"Climbing the income ladder occurs less often in the Southeast and industrial Midwest, the data shows, with the odds notably low in Atlanta, Charlotte, Memphis, Raleigh, Indianapolis, Cincinnati and Columbus."
Charlotte and Raleigh both have a long way to go to reach the status of a world class city. On a side note, being compared to DC is a compliment for a city. Being compared to Atlanta ... i'll leave it at that.
DC is great, but its largest industry is government and everything else flows out of that. The high tech sector in the DC region consists of tons of defense contractors that feed at the federal teat and government-backed institutes that rely on federal dollars to stay afloat. And that's pretty much where the similarities begin and end for DC and Raleigh. They can more or less rest on their laurels because they both have built-in industry that's really not going anywhere.
And being compared to Atlanta is a compliment as well. Atlanta really and truly has no inherent reasons for being as large, influential, and powerful as it is. As an early rail hub, state capital, and with a great collection of colleges and universities, it really should be similar in size and stature to Charlotte and the Triangle. However, the city has enjoyed amazingly progressive local civic and business leadership since its founding that has turned it into the de facto powerhouse of the Southeast, complete with HRT, cultural institutions, a great array of dining and shopping destinations, and the like. And although you're probably loathe to admit it, Raleigh has more in common with Atlanta than you might think. If anything, Raleigh and DC are compared more simply due to close proximity.
I just find it amazing that you're so biased here that you fail to see that there's more than one way for a city to be successful. Furthermore, traditional industries have done much, MUCH more to propel more folks into the middle class than the "creative class" industries ever will.
DC is great, but its largest industry is government and everything else flows out of that. The high tech sector in the DC region consists of tons of defense contractors that feed at the federal teat and government-backed institutes that rely on federal dollars to stay afloat. And that's pretty much where the similarities begin and end for DC and Raleigh. They can more or less rest on their laurels because they both have built-in industry that's really not going anywhere.
And being compared to Atlanta is a compliment as well. Atlanta really and truly has no inherent reasons for being as large, influential, and powerful as it is. As an early rail hub, state capital, and with a great collection of colleges and universities, it really should be similar in size and stature to Charlotte and the Triangle. However, the city has enjoyed amazingly progressive local civic and business leadership since its founding that has turned it into the de facto powerhouse of the Southeast, complete with HRT, cultural institutions, a great array of dining and shopping destinations, and the like. And although you're probably loathe to admit it, Raleigh has more in common with Atlanta than you might think. If anything, Raleigh and DC are compared more simply due to close proximity.
I just find it amazing that you're so biased here that you fail to see that there's more than one way for a city to be successful. Furthermore, traditional industries have done much, MUCH more to propel more folks into the middle class than the "creative class" industries ever will.
I think I am arguing for apples, and you are arguing for oranges. I am not here to measure a city in terms of the categories and aspects you are measuring. I agree with your post above (your point is oranges, and my point is apple).
Here's my point. For the "creative class", Raleigh is a better place than Charlotte. Raleigh is similar to DC that it was recently called out as a "creative class" hotspot along with DC, Seattle, Austin, San Francisco, Toronto.
Charlotte and Atlanta are not (yet) creative class hotspots. Just for the subset of people called the creative class, Raleigh is better than Charlotte and DC is better than Atlanta.
I am not intelligent enough to get into people's minds and empathize subjective experiences to be able to tell which city is better for whom (although sociologists and economists think Raleigh is generally a top city among its peers for singles and families).
I do not care about Atlanta's GDP, growth, etc. I am talking only of what the city offers to a modern, progressive, hip "creative class".
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Though I have a sneaky suspicion that you still think that when you speak of how great Raleigh is (which I don't deny Raleigh is a great city) you liberally (ha ha - I'm making a pun - did you get it?) pull in Chapel Hill, Durham, and Cary which I'm afraid your high level of education still doesn't allow you to understand are their own cities. If you want to start a thread entitled The entire Triangle region (and Washington D.C., apparently) against Charlotte - go ahead - but that's not this thread.
