Charlotte vs. Raleigh? (Greensboro, Jacksonville, Chapel Hill: meeting, surprise, necessary)
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I understand y'all posted about a weak hotel and a bjs. Somthing nobody cares about. Next time do us a favor and post about something interesting. Let's start there.
One of your fellow charlatans jumped all over me about the Ale House. Atleast it's the flagship. I actually met the owner Friday by the way. He was checking things out.
Remember this is Raleigh vs Charlotte not a local development thread. No one is interested in spring hill suites. Sorry. Where's tdm51 when you need him. Weak guys. He would even have to admit that. If he was not bias lol
I didn't mention any developments. Not top golf, not Carolina ale house, not Kane, not Springhill, etc. I responded to your response to it.
And if you say downtown Raleigh compared to uptown is not valid because it doesn't include Midtown Raleigh, then it'd be natural to include SouthEnd Charlotte and everyway you slice it, Charlotte is bigger. Not better, bigger. The triangle also has downtown Durham which Metrolina has no comparable 2ndary city.
I'd agree Speinghill isn't really noteworthy of this thread nor is BJ's unless being talked about in a broader sense such as a discussion on retail or a rundown on developments, etc.
I didn't mention any developments. Not top golf, not Carolina ale house, not Kane, not Springhill, etc. I responded to your response to it.
And if you say downtown Raleigh compared to uptown is not valid because it doesn't include Midtown Raleigh, then it'd be natural to include SouthEnd Charlotte and everyway you slice it, Charlotte is bigger. Not better, bigger. The triangle also has downtown Durham which Metrolina has no comparable 2ndary city.
I'd agree Speinghill isn't really noteworthy of this thread nor is BJ's unless being talked about in a broader sense such as a discussion on retail or a rundown on developments, etc.
You always include South End anyway. Not a big deal. In the discussions we have it's only natural to include MT Raleigh. In any "Urban Development" discussion. We usually include other areas anyway. In Raleigh that would include Cameron Village,Hillsborough St and Centennial Campus. When including all surrounding area I don't know about the bigger claim. Taller yes.
I like to give you a hard time because you are one of the "another level" people. One who is under the delusion that Charlotte is somehow above the rest of N.C.. I think it's especially funny when you make that claim in regards to development. A claim you have made on more than one occasion. Always being proven wrong but you keep on trying. The reason I always have an answer is simple. Both cities are growing at the same pace. So it's only natural that development patterns will be similar. At this point the Park is not a real factor. Because most of the growth is concentrated DT or MT Raleigh. Or a surrounding area. That's why when you or any other Charlotte poster post about a new development I say I'm not impressed. Not because it's not a cool project(most of the time). It's because everything I've seen thus far. I can name a project of similar size and scope in Raleigh. Period. I will admit that 42 story one was impressive. Even that one has a match now. Being it's really only 32 new stories. I think 2-20 stories would match up quite nicely.
I will admit I like giving y'all a had time. It's all in fun though. It's easy because y'all come from this superiority angle. That is easy to poke holes in and have fun with. Example last week tdm51 made a smart comment about the view from Fahrenheit uptown. Something about Raleigh not having anything like that. Obviously he needed to do so research. Same with the Bohemian. It's called google.
Also the AC Hotel. That's always a good one. Why would they build such a hotel at "a mall" in Raleigh before our obviously superior UPTOWN? That one always seems to strike a nerve. I thought it was funny how one of you put up the renderings of the uptown version. Even though we had already seen them on multiple occasions. Knowing it's not about to start. Spring is a ways off guys. That was the general start time. Last I heard it's still winter?
There are other that seem to burn you guys up. Top Golf is another example.
But most notably Raleigh Union Station. That one gets the blood going. Especially since the State took money away from Gateway to fully fund it. The problem is Gateway is too grand and there are too many moving parts at this point. IMO.
I did a many occasions concede the point on public transit. The only issue is the traffic there is terrible. While here the public transit is not good. Traffic on the other hand is good in comparison. Once again depends on preference.
By the way I do enjoy all the info about Uptown development and growth. I think Charlotte will turn out to be better than Atlanta in the long run also. Most of the stuff we discuss I visit on my trips down to get a first hand look. Charlotte is a cool city on another level no. Cool all the same.
You always include South End anyway. Not a big deal. In the discussions we have it's only natural to include MT Raleigh. In any "Urban Development" discussion. We usually include other areas anyway. In Raleigh that would include Cameron Village,Hillsborough St and Centennial Campus. When including all surrounding area I don't know about the bigger claim. Taller yes.
I like to give you a hard time because you are one of the "another level" people. One who is under the delusion that Charlotte is somehow above the rest of N.C.. I think it's especially funny when you make that claim in regards to development. A claim you have made on more than one occasion. Always being proven wrong but you keep on trying. The reason I always have an answer is simple. Both cities are growing at the same pace. So it's only natural that development patterns will be similar. At this point the Park is not a real factor. Because most of the growth is concentrated DT or MT Raleigh. Or a surrounding area. That's why when you or any other Charlotte poster post about a new development I say I'm not impressed. Not because it's not a cool project(most of the time). It's because everything I've seen thus far. I can name a project of similar size and scope in Raleigh. Period. I will admit that 42 story one was impressive. Even that one has a match now. Being it's really only 32 new stories. I think 2-20 stories would match up quite nicely.
I will admit I like giving y'all a had time. It's all in fun though. It's easy because y'all come from this superiority angle. That is easy to poke holes in and have fun with. Example last week tdm51 made a smart comment about the view from Fahrenheit uptown. Something about Raleigh not having anything like that. Obviously he needed to do so research. Same with the Bohemian. It's called google.
Also the AC Hotel. That's always a good one. Why would they build such a hotel at "a mall" in Raleigh before our obviously superior UPTOWN? That one always seems to strike a nerve. I thought it was funny how one of you put up the renderings of the uptown version. Even though we had already seen them on multiple occasions. Knowing it's not about to start. Spring is a ways off guys. That was the general start time. Last I heard it's still winter?
There are other that seem to burn you guys up. Top Golf is another example.
But most notably Raleigh Union Station. That one gets the blood going. Especially since the State took money away from Gateway to fully fund it. The problem is Gateway is too grand and there are too many moving parts at this point. IMO.
I did a many occasions concede the point on public transit. The only issue is the traffic there is terrible. While here the public transit is not good. Traffic on the other hand is good in comparison. Once again depends on preference.
By the way I do enjoy all the info about Uptown development and growth. I think Charlotte will turn out to be better than Atlanta in the long run also. Most of the stuff we discuss I visit on my trips down to get a first hand look. Charlotte is a cool city on another level no. Cool all the same.
The past 2 years I've worked in both downtowns (Raleigh & Charlotte) quite a bit and soon to be in the RDU area as I stated earlier. Downtown Raleigh has maintained more history but uptown Charlotte is on another level, vibe and all.
And Raleigh's so-called midtown (North Hills) is cool but isn't connected to downtown like Southend and Uptown. Uptown Charlotte is on another level compared to any other city in NC. That doesn't mean downtown Raleigh isn't on the move, which it is. I do prefer downtown Raleigh for that very reason, slower paced, and kind of a throw back...well, I like downtown Durham better than downtown Raleigh because it's even easier to navigate, although much more is happening in downtown Raleigh.
The past 2 years I've worked in both downtowns (Raleigh & Charlotte) quite a bit and soon to be in the RDU area as I stated earlier. Downtown Raleigh has maintained more history but uptown Charlotte is on another level, vibe and all.
And Raleigh's so-called midtown (North Hills) is cool but isn't connected to downtown like Southend and Uptown. Uptown Charlotte is on another level compared to any other city in NC. That doesn't mean downtown Raleigh isn't on the move, which it is. I do prefer downtown Raleigh for that very reason, slower paced, and kind of a throw back...well, I like downtown Durham better than downtown Raleigh because it's even easier to navigate, although much more is happening in downtown Raleigh.
So called Midtown? Just for the record North Hills is in Midtown. It's not Midtown? So you know.
As I stated earlier it's all about preference. Some like one some like the other. It's ok.
Another level of what? I always wonder when people make such statements. Please explain?
That's just a Small part of SouthEnd. It's a High density, transit oriented neighborhood. Lots of local and quirky places, Some larger chain places (Lowe's, Office Depot, soon to be Publix. All urban format stores).
What exactly is "Midtown Raleigh"??? I google it and All I see is Birkdale Huntersville looking development... and exactly what does that have to do in context with the urban vibrancy of the downtown Raleigh area? Unless I'm mistaken, it's late and I have zero clue about "Midtown" and how it's Raleigh's supposed SouthEnd.....
That's just a Small part of SouthEnd. It's a High density, transit oriented neighborhood. Lots of local and quirky places, Some larger chain places (Lowe's, Office Depot, soon to be Publix. All urban format stores).
What exactly is "Midtown Raleigh"??? I google it and All I see is Birkdale Huntersville looking development... and exactly what does that have to do in context with the urban vibrancy of the downtown Raleigh area? Unless I'm mistaken, it's late and I have zero clue about "Midtown" and how it's Raleigh's supposed SouthEnd.....
Nice pic. The view of uptown is cool in the background. All I see other than that is "cookie cutter" apartments. Along with a old water tower with a light on it.
I'm not sure how this came to be a comparison of Midtown and southend. I include MT in my comparisons of the 2 cities because it's clearly relevant. Why dose that place bother you guys so much? I never said it was Raleigh's southend by the way. If you can find a quote of me saying such a thing. I would love to see it.
It's a cool place that is growing very fast. Lots of people seem to like the area. Nothing more. Oh you're right about one thing. You have ZERO CLUE.
I'll answer the question anyway. What dose MT Raleigh have. That an easy one. Lots of nice chain restaurants, 5 soon to be 6 hotels.AC Hotel will be 6 maybe 7.cosco, Target,office depot,Kroger,Harris Teeter,Trader Joes,total wine,golds gym(if the haven't changed the name),Captrust tower 1,tower 2(UC), coming soon Tower 3,a movie theater, bowling alley, an Ampathitheater, Duke Raleigh hospital. All within about a 1.5 mike area. I could go on but it's late.
For some reason you seem to think its a disadvantage for MT to be separate from DT. it's quite the opposite. It has allowed lots of new development. Without the destruction of historic neighborhoods around DT Raleigh along with historic buildings in DT. Something your picture obviously shows didn't happen there.
Some people don't like the area though. They call it soulless and heartless. Coincidently the same knock a lot of people have on Uptown lol.
Have you even been to the area. If not it's probably best to visit before you make comments about a place. Just saying. By the way I have been to south end on many occasions. Last time was on a visit to Midnight Diner.
Almost forgot MT has nothing to do with DT's "urban vibrancy". Actually the area seems to do just fine in that area,on its own. At least that's what Marriott thinks. I only bring Marriott up because they specifically say,they build these specific hotels in these types of areas. So I think I'll take their word for it on this one. Wouldn't you?
Midtown Raleigh is 4.6 miles away from downtown Raleigh. How does that have anything to do downtown Raleigh? What is counting a place 4 to 5 miles away have any thing to do with downtown other than it is it is in the city of Raleigh. I do agree that mid-town Raleigh is bigger than some cities downtown. It is a nice development and it looks great from the Beltline, and There is no other development like this in North Carolina.
South Park malls is about 5 miles from uptown Charlotte and it is not counted as part of uptown.
A road is what divides South End, Midtown and Elizabeth neighborhood from uptown , but they are included in "center city facts and reports" by the Chamber of Commerce and Charlotte Center City Partners. Elizabeth neighborhood is next to uptown and is join by a street car. Uptown Charlotte is absorbing the surrounding neighborhoods. The term center city is now being used more today.
There are plans to put a cover over I277 between uptown and South End.
Raleigh will expand its downtown some day when it runs out of space.
Midtown Raleigh is 4.6 miles away from downtown Raleigh. How does that have anything to do downtown Raleigh? What is counting a place 4 to 5 miles away have any thing to do with downtown other than it is it is in the city of Raleigh. I do agree that mid-town Raleigh is bigger than some cities downtown. It is a nice development and it looks great from the Beltline, and There is no other development like this in North Carolina.
South Park malls is about 5 miles from uptown Charlotte and it is not counted as part of uptown.
A road is what divides South End & Midtown and Elizabeth neighborhood from uptown , but they are included in "center city facts and reports" by the Chamber of Commerce and Charlotte Center City Partners. Elizabeth neighborhood is next to uptown and is join by a street car. Uptown Charlotte is absorbing the surrounding neighborhoods. The term center city is now being used more to day.
There are plans to put a cover over I277 between uptown and South End.
Raleigh will expand its downtown some day when it runs out of space.
I hope you realize that you are talking to a wall.
That being said, Midtown Raleigh is where I usually stay in the area. Its a nice area.
It is in no way linked to downtown. The SouthPark analogy works very well, as the areas to me seem similar(ish-- i realize the have quite a few differences).
SouthEnd is an extension of uptown. I make the walk regularly between both.
SouthEnd is more of a warehouse type area, with alot of unique restaurants, shops, galleries and alot of apartments (alot of cookie cutter ones granted). Its definetly not similar to Midtown Raleigh, not in a "its better" type of way.. the two just are not similar at all.
Both cities CBD are seeing renewed interest & growth& that's great for both. Charlotte does have a advantage in it's center city is the primary office,hotel& entertainment district. South End is a area that I would say is seeing growth on a another level. South End is on the verge of becoming a edge city similar to South Park& Ballentyne except it will be a true urban neighborhood.
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