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Old 03-06-2013, 02:42 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,729,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recip View Post
The bottom line is that no matter how practical and violent-crime-reducing the legalization of marijuana may be, the Tarheel Taliban in power cannot be seen as soft on moral issues.
Link me to the studies that state marijuana reduces violent crime. Note that I haven't taken a position on the main argument but I'd say trying to justify moving something from Schedule I to the general public should rely on statements of fact backed up by empirical evidence. Otherwise you are just going to insult those that you want to change their minds, IE the GA.

Also see, Sleep Apnea.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:41 PM
 
3,065 posts, read 8,872,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
I guess cut and paste is too difficult for some to back up a claim.
I guess Google is too difficult for some to refute a claim
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:49 PM
 
5,150 posts, read 7,729,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macjr82 View Post
I guess Google is too difficult for some to refute a claim

I guess so since no one will post facts. Too much weed I suppose. I'd have to vote against it after seeing this thread.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:41 AM
 
106 posts, read 316,769 times
Reputation: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
Link me to the studies that state marijuana reduces violent crime. Note that I haven't taken a position on the main argument but I'd say trying to justify moving something from Schedule I to the general public should rely on statements of fact backed up by empirical evidence. Otherwise you are just going to insult those that you want to change their minds, IE the GA.

Also see, Sleep Apnea.
I don't know that marijuana reduces violent crime, but then again I did not say that. I said the legalization of marijuana would reduce violent crime. This is because the PROHIBITION of marijuana is the factor in violent crime.

Marijuana is the most popular illegal drug out there. If we legalized its production, sale, and use, there is no question that violent crime related to the illegal drug trade would go down notably.

Add to that the billions we would save on enforcement and prisons and it gets better. Add to that the additional tax revenues that would come from sales being legal and it gets even better.

I have no personal interest in smoking marijuana, but I know it is relatively harmless, LOTS of otherwise law-abiding people smoke it, and we spend a lot of law enforcement money trying to stop all that. LOTS if people die from marijuana- not from using it but from participation in its illegal trade. Seems like a waste of life and MY money to me.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:04 PM
 
160 posts, read 234,373 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recip View Post
I don't know that marijuana reduces violent crime, but then again I did not say that. I said the legalization of marijuana would reduce violent crime. This is because the PROHIBITION of marijuana is the factor in violent crime.

Marijuana is the most popular illegal drug out there. If we legalized its production, sale, and use, there is no question that violent crime related to the illegal drug trade would go down notably.

Add to that the billions we would save on enforcement and prisons and it gets better. Add to that the additional tax revenues that would come from sales being legal and it gets even better.

I have no personal interest in smoking marijuana, but I know it is relatively harmless, LOTS of otherwise law-abiding people smoke it, and we spend a lot of law enforcement money trying to stop all that. LOTS if people die from marijuana- not from using it but from participation in its illegal trade. Seems like a waste of life and MY money to me.
Were Marijuana the only illegal drug - perhaps making it legal would stop the drug trade. However, it's not the only illegal drug. You want to end the drug trade, then you've got to make the others legal too - cocaine, heroin, meth, the...

You're still going to spend the billions fighting the drug war anyways.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:37 PM
 
106 posts, read 316,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkman View Post
Were Marijuana the only illegal drug - perhaps making it legal would stop the drug trade. However, it's not the only illegal drug. You want to end the drug trade, then you've got to make the others legal too - cocaine, heroin, meth, the...

You're still going to spend the billions fighting the drug war anyways.
I am talking about REDUCING violent crime and having more money by legalizing a relatively harmless product.

According to the federal government, over half of illegal drug users ONLY use marijuana. At least per person, we could instantly cut drug crime in half by legalizing a natural plant that is not addictive, impossible to overdose on, and generally much less harmful to society than than alcohol (which we already tried to outlaw).

Most of our marijuana comes through Mexico where thousands die each year at the hands of the cartels thanks to OUR "war on drugs." Why would even one person in Mexico, much less the U.S. die over the U.S. bound illegal marijuana trade if it became legal here?

If nothing else we'd have MORE resources to deal with meth, crack, etc. if we leave marijuana alone.

Nobody discounts the public health issues surrounding alcohol abuse, but we still decided to make it legal because its use is so widespread and accepted and that prohibition had disastrous consequences. We should be practical and treat marijuana the same way.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:18 PM
 
1,094 posts, read 2,962,549 times
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If marijuana was legalized, think about the money we would save on a) prosecuting marijuana users b) incarcerating users c) and the police man hours looking for marijuana users. Think about how many marijuana users are in jail on the "Three Strike" rule. How much room would we free up in our jails for real criminals if the weed smokers were let go?

Then think about how many jobs could be created by the factories growing, cultivating, packaging and selling weed. We're missing out on a literal cash crop here, and I don't smoke or drink and see the benefits.

Which then brings me to the medicinal benefits of it. It reduces inflammation and has been shown to help and control numerous health conditions. Helps cancer patients be able to eat, helps with fibro and other inflammatory diseases, glaucoma, etc etc. Although, that could be why big pharma has been involved in trying to keep weed illegal. There's a thought for ya, huh?!

But I say legalize it, and tax the hell out of it!
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:27 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,575,378 times
Reputation: 43650
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkman View Post
Were Marijuana the only illegal drug - perhaps making it legal would stop the drug trade.
However, it's not the only illegal drug.
One fight at a time. OK?

As regards MJ... the objective there would be to eliminate need for contact with the criminal
element in order to get it. That one aspect alone will do wonders.

Even without any taxation from sales the savings from prosecution will be BILLIONS.

Quote:
You want to end the drug trade, then you've got to make the others legal too
- cocaine, heroin, meth, the...
Well, how about if we start by just re-medicalizing the pharmaceutical products?

Actual doctors, actual prescriptions, actual pharmacies...
with real control over product quality, dosages and most importantly... the costs.
Not even Pfizer or Bayer will have the legal price much beyond what Viagra costs.

Yeah, I think that about covers it.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Danville, VA - 3rd Capital of the Confederacy!
203 posts, read 411,101 times
Reputation: 334
Thumbs down "Annoyed" or "Harassed" ... Stam and his Gang are still a Public Disgrace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCharlotte View Post
Why did you put the word "annoyed" in quotes? You aren't quoting anyone.
Mea culpa. I guess actually the word I did quote in my post #14 in this thread was the same word the OP had used in the subheading of his post #1 in this thread, which was the word "annoyed."

I guess what I should have actually done was quote Rep. Stam's use of the term "harassed", as was quoted in the "NC Capital Blog" article cited by the OP as follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatoneguy4 View Post
... Rep. Paul "Skip" Stam, R-Wake ... said lawmakers were being "harassed" with phone calls and emails about medical marijuana. ... Medical marijuana advocates reportedly heavily outnumbered the single opponent who appeared at the hearing, but lawmakers were apparently unmoved by the showing of support.
So "annoyed" or "harassed" ... what the hell. Did it make any difference what words we use when we see legislators who obviously don't give a damn what their constituents think -- or want?

If all those lawmakers feel that "harassed" by their constituents, they should summarily resign their offices en masse and report to the nearest mental institution for lobotomization.

In any case, GCharlotte, I hereby sincerely offer my most profound and extremely humble apologies for misusing a word and/or misquoting the OP, and promise to be more careful in the future.

HOWEVER, in any case, no matter which word you prefer, I still stand by my original observation that, by the uncaring attitudes demonstrated with respect to their constituents, "Skip" Stam and the rest of his gang have thereby proven themselves to be unfit to hold public office. Maybe poor old Skippy and his buddies just all got stoned ... and they missed it.

Best regards,
Dan
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:05 AM
 
160 posts, read 234,373 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
One fight at a time. OK?

As regards MJ... the objective there would be to eliminate need for contact with the criminal
element in order to get it. That one aspect alone will do wonders.

Even without any taxation from sales the savings from prosecution will be BILLIONS.


Well, how about if we start by just re-medicalizing the pharmaceutical products?

Actual doctors, actual prescriptions, actual pharmacies...
with real control over product quality, dosages and most importantly... the costs.
Not even Pfizer or Bayer will have the legal price much beyond what Viagra costs.

Yeah, I think that about covers it.
Sounds like you're just trying to rationalize it away.

I suspect that the reduction in drug crime will not be as large as you believe. The drug dealers & cartels are not idealists, they're businesses run by criminals. They'll find something else to push.

As an "average Joe" in this discussion, the arguments of "increased taxation" and "it's just too hard to prosecute" don't win me over. As a society, we're running around trying to get healthier - just look at all the anti-smoking efforts and other healthy eating campaigns going on. That's not to mention all the energy we spend dealing with people hooked on prescription drugs. If marijuana is as harmless as you say, then why are people so driven to get their hands on it that they risk jail and in turn support the illicit drug trade. It just seems like it's something that we're probably generally better off without.
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