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I actually don't think that's true. I think you're setting up a straw man there. Most people don't compare cities that way in the South. That one guy you found in those comments might, but I think Richmond and Charleston do have a lot in common, actually. Richmond has a lot of history preserved, though, it's perhaps not quite as beautiful as Charleston by the water and all.
Winston-Salem and Birmingham are certainly different cities, like Buffalo and Newark are different, but they have many commonalities. I don't think Winston-Salemites seek to differentiate themselves from Alabamans because they don't want to be associated with them. In fact I think they share a lot of history with regard to Civil Rights.
I was talking more or less about the posters on the General U.S. forum on C-D (I've never see you participate in those forums, so I can understand why you wouldn't know this). In real life, I don't think people care nearly as much. But on C-D, "southern" generally means evil and "suburban" means pure evil. If you want to push somebody's buttons on C-D, just say that their city is suburban, and they will unleash their wrath.
We had Jesse Helms. It doesn't get any more southern than that.
Sorry but bigotry =/= Southern. There is no such thng as "Southern politics"--look at Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, etc. All of them have political views that Jesse Helms would have loved ove, yet none are remotely "Southern".
I was talking more or less about the posters on the General U.S. forum on C-D (I've never see you participate in those forums, so I can understand why you wouldn't know this). In real life, I don't think people care nearly as much. But on C-D, "southern" generally means evil and "suburban" means pure evil. If you want to push somebody's buttons on C-D, just say that their city is suburban, and they will unleash their wrath.
So, now you admit that you started this entire thread based on some comments not even in the NC forum, by those who believe "Southern" means "evil"? And even you don't believe this is true?
I'm still wondering why you started this thread, especially since you want to argue with every answers someone offers.
Probably it has to do with varying interpretations of "Southern". Is it meant geographically? Culturally? Politically (not that there is a common political mindset in the South)?
For me, "Southern" refers to manners, politeness, a Southern accent, graciousness, quirky relatives, a slower way of living and talking, etc. Not that all of these things (except the accent) don't exist other places, but when you talk about "Southern literature", for example, people generally know the kinds of traits being addressed. Flannery O'Connor, Faulkner, Lee Smith, Jill McCorkle, etc. There is the term "a fine Southern Lady" which most people generally know the meaning of (for one example). Unfortunately, the media still perpetuates the stereotypes of Deliverance, Dukes of Hazzard, etc. Julia Sugarbaker on "Designing Women" was one of the few popular media representation of the kind of person whom we all know is quite prevalent here, and was even when the South had a mugh higher percentage of natives than now (not surprisingly, she was created by an actual Southern woman, Linda Bloodworth-Thomason from Arkansas, rather than a NY or Hollywood executive who's never set foot in the region).
"Southern" does NOT equate to racism (blacks in the South are "Southern", too), calling the Civil War "The war of Northern Aggression" (which is right up there with Granny Clampett as far as ridiculuos stereotypes that people from other regions maintain about Southerners). Not to say that racism did not and does not exist here, but as even the OP recognizes, harsh racism still exists everywhere, even in Northern cities. Being overly religious is more prevalent in the South, but also in areas such as the Midwest and of course Utah.
But without a standard definition of what is meant by "Southern", it is impossible to discuss how "Southern" NC or any other place is. You might mention that to the posters in the other forum that sent you here.
PS, I do definitely think there is derision between, say New Yorkers and New Englanders, at least ones I've known. And Westerners vs Californians or even Northern Californians vs Southern Californians. Probably even Wisconsin-Midwesterners and Ohio-Midwesterners. An "us vs them" mentality has always been a part of human nature (probably a survival instinct) and the current political climate has amplified that even more.
So, now you admit that you started this entire thread based on some comments not even in the NC forum, by those who believe "Southern" means "evil"? And even you don't believe this is true?
I don't have to "admit" anything because I never concealed anything. I provided a quote and the link. I only asked how someone could live in North Carolina and be oblivious to the fact that it is a southern state. Of course, I could repeat this another 51 times, but you would come back ask the same questions 51 times over again.
I think it really boils down to an urban vs rural type thing. People are saying NC isn't as Southern anymore because it's getting more urban. Heavy urbanization, and all that comes along with that (industry, influx of [im]migrants, density, mass transit, etc.) used to be much more characteristic of the North than the South in the pre-war era. The only city in the South in that era that could hang with the larger cities of the North was New Orleans, and while New Orleans was every bit as cosmopolitan as the Northern cities (the only difference being that New Orleans had more Caribbean influence culturally than European influence), it was the exception. Charleston, Richmond, Savannah, Louisville, etc. were sizable cities to a point, but they were never as large as Philly, Boston, NYC, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, etc. So now with increased urbanization and the development of a more cosmopolitan flair, Southerns states that are undergoing this are being booted out of the Southern category, which is a shame. Since part of what it means to be Southern is history and geography, I think a better way to think about it is that what it means to be Southern is evolving in the post-war era.
What does that mean? Is it 80% Southern and 20% Northern? What is New York State?
80% Southern is about right. That's the percentage of North Carolinians that consider themselves southern on surveys. The other 20% are not northern, necessarily. For instance many first generation residents who were born in the 80s to northern/midwestern parents may not consider themselves southern, despite living here their whole lives. They wouldn't consider themselves northern either.
My children were born in the 80s and don't have accents. I am a native NC girl with a piedmont southern accent and they have been around my family so my kids understand the phrases, sayings, and ways; but they themselves speak more of a standard American English. And if they are around others with heavy accents, the kids understand the others and respond appropriately.
But my children themselves have no accent that I can tell.
North Carolina is most certainly Southern. I am from New England. The whole area screams southern in the way folks drive, the inconsistent food service, religion, accent, etc. Now if you hang out with the Lake Norman crowd you would think the whole area was NY.
I don't have to "admit" anything because I never concealed anything. I provided a quote and the link. I only asked how someone could live in North Carolina and be oblivious to the fact that it is a southern state. Of course, I could repeat this another 51 times, but you would come back ask the same questions 51 times over again.
Your question was "North Carolina was never Southern?" Answer: It has always been southern. There never has been a debate.
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