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Old 04-16-2015, 01:10 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
43 posts, read 54,155 times
Reputation: 57

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I'd love to get some viewpoints on what people think of the following:

North Carolina seems to be experiencing a very significant growth spurt with an influx of people from both the north and the south (and other locations). From what I'm learning, housing prices are being driven up, especially in the Cary/triangle area. Significant revitalization projects are going on in various cities, and there are so many brand spanking new neighborhoods I visited in Charlotte and the triangle area that they literally looked like they had all been built in the past 1-3 years (some very affluent). The tech sector seems to be booming and based on the now 4 different job offers in the tech sector my husband has had, the salaries are very robust (higher than for the same positions in the DC area, the bay area, and Texas). Forbes listed Raleigh as the best place for business and tech careers in 2014, and I have the sense from my visit that it is reinventing itself and will become a pretty big player as a place to live and work. (Raleigh Leads The Best Places For Business And Careers 2014 - Forbes)

Several people I spoke to on my visit were concerned that they were getting priced out of their neighborhoods and homes were growing too expensive due to the influx of wealthier northerners driving up house prices.

I've also been exploring other articles on NC, and the subject off low income/poverty seems to keep rearing it's head repeatedly. For example, several NC cities made the list of the top 15 cities in the US where poverty has been expanding the fastest (e.g. 15 Cities Where Poverty Is Soaring - Business Insider).

So, my question is this. Based on these factors, and based on historically looking at where similar socioeconomic landscapes have played out in other states, what do you think the immediate future (next 5-10 years+) holds for North Carolina in it's state of evolvement? How do you think things will play out? I'd love a lesson in understanding "probable outcomes" from those of you who have a good understanding of the pulse of North Carolina and who also have an understanding of what these trends have led to in other states that have experienced similar trends. Can I get some opinions, because I'm not versed enough on the subject of such socioeconomic factors to make educated guesses on future outcomes.

Thank you!
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Old 04-16-2015, 06:07 AM
 
1,546 posts, read 2,537,656 times
Reputation: 1400
"Build it and they will come" When you have a collapse in our financial system and a big push by the NC Liberals to give free stuff away to enable people to become dependent on the Government, you have this increase in poor population. Many on this thread think the economy has recovered and we are on our way to living in Utopia. You ask about predicting the next 5-10 years, we are at almost 50% of our population on entitlements. Debt is moving at light speed. Capitalism is shunned by the left and business is not booming anymore. People with careers are killing themselves working more for less. If our state does not stop the damage created by the previous wacko's in office , we may not have a 5-10 year future. If we do not allow companies to create jobs, more will be demanding the jump on the nipple. Socialism does not work anywhere.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:08 AM
 
2,668 posts, read 7,127,591 times
Reputation: 3570
Obviously (ahem, see above) a big part of the problem is that NC is full of backwards-thinking people who want to blame "the left" for everything from potholes to the weather, even though the left has never been in power in our state (it's always been moderate to conservative Democrats). These folks have fallen hook, line, and sinker for the conservative media's appeal to their unfounded fears, to the point that they blame recent Democratic administrations for the economic woes of the past 8 years, despite the fact that the recession was mostly due to business-friendly (and near-criminal) lack of oversight and regulation of the housing markets by the Bush administration. It had nothing to do with our state government, but somehow they get blamed for it. Go figure. As a result, we end up with a legislature full of buffoons and a governor who's in the pocket of Art Pope and the Koch brothers.

The truth is that NC's economy has been crushed over the past 20 years by the movement of manufacturing jobs out of our country and the concurrent "corporatization" of the agricultural economy, both of which were enabled and encouraged by pro-business government policies that ignored the impact to the working class. Small-town and rural NC has endured mass factory closings, and small farms can no longer compete due to a regulatory and legal environment that is owned by big agri-business. The sources of working-class jobs have dried up, leaving us with a mass of people with no reasonable alternative but to seek government help.

So what does our conservative-led state government do about it? They cut unemployment benefits, cut education funding, restrict Medicaid availability, attack corporate incentives designed to bring jobs, eliminate tax breaks for the poor, attack advocacy groups, and make life easier for their rich friends by cutting their taxes.

And, as some contend (ahem, ahem), no one is keeping companies from creating jobs except their own greed. Better to create those jobs in a country where they can pay two dollars per hour than to pay a living wage to Americans, right?
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:26 AM
 
1,546 posts, read 2,537,656 times
Reputation: 1400
"The truth is that NC's economy has been crushed over the past 20 years by the movement of manufacturing jobs out of our country and the concurrent "corporatization" of the agricultural economy, both of which were enabled and encouraged by pro-business government policies that ignored the impact to the working class. Small-town and rural NC has endured mass factory closings, and small farms can no longer compete due to a regulatory and legal environment that is owned by big agri-business. The sources of working-class jobs have dried up, leaving us with a mass of people with no reasonable alternative but to seek government help."

How about the efforts of the one and only George Soros? Thank God for the Koch bros!

Oh I see, I Liberal that wants to blame someone else. OK here you go sweetheart. 20 years ago the Dems passed NAFTA that started the tidal wave of companies to move to other countries. Bill Clinton, Erskine Bowles...remember these names? Remember Springs Industries? Just one example of free trade that went bye, bye by Wacko's in office - both Reps and Dems!

Building a nanny state will not work. This is why poverty has increased in Charlotte 97% since his royal highness took office and we had two rubber stampers - Hagan and Perdue pushing more and more entitlements. Memo: the Government does not create jobs, companies and individuals create jobs. Regulate & tax our US Companies and open free trade to companies around the world paying employees 50 cents a day and our companies can't compete and see what happens? See ya company, see ya jobs.

People need to eat...I get it. But we are giving away food stamps and these poor are buying food at Walmart imported from China, Thailand, Mexico and elsewhere. How does this help our economy? This entire nightmare is to be blamed on both sides, but something needs to happen to stop the bleeding before we go bankrupt. If we keep spending what we do not have in the bank in the next 5-10 years...think of us being the next Greece. Is that what you want for your kids future?

Do you know what Bankruptcy means?

Someone with Brass Balls needs to put and end to all of this waste and nonsense going on in our state & federal government. People need to take responsibility and become productive members of society instead of sucking the blood out of our financial system. Government officials need to act responsible and start making decisions that help all citizens not just the cry babies. And... they need to stop building this culture of being on entitlements is the only career choice people have today. Living shameless is pathetic and the rest of the world sees us this way.

Last edited by ClevelandMike; 04-16-2015 at 07:38 AM..
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:40 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,517,928 times
Reputation: 43648
Quote:
Originally Posted by autumnwilderland View Post
..what do you think the immediate future (next 5-10 years+) holds for North Carolina... ?
NC has and faces the same basic set of problems as every other US State.
In short, there are too many no/low skilled people; far more than job creation can ever solve.
Job creation can't even keep up with the annual crop that comes of age.

Outside of a few pockets of productivity there are too many people at higher skill levels as well.
Within those few pockets of productivity... some seem to be doing very well.

Last edited by MrRational; 04-16-2015 at 07:52 AM..
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:27 AM
 
2,668 posts, read 7,127,591 times
Reputation: 3570
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandMike View Post
How about the efforts of the one and only George Soros? Thank God for the Koch bros!
I have no idea how George Soros has affected NC's economy. Care to enlighten us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandMike View Post
Oh I see, I Liberal that wants to blame someone else. OK here you go sweetheart. 20 years ago the Dems passed NAFTA that started the tidal wave of companies to move to other countries. Bill Clinton, Erskine Bowles...remember these names? Remember Springs Industries? Just one example of free trade that went bye, bye by Wacko's in office - both Reps and Dems!
Exactly my point. You want to blame "liberals", but it was conservatives and moderates who fostered the overseas migration that put NC where it is now. And yes, I remember Springs Industries...I worked there during the early 1990's when the mass jobs migration was happening. What do you know about them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandMike View Post

Building a nanny state will not work.
I agree, and I never suggested that we build one. But as you say, people need to eat. And when there's no alternative because our government has failed to provide sufficient pathways out of poverty, I see no logic in cutting benefits for the poor. That only helps ensure that they can't eat.

You apparently have been brainwashed to think that most/all recipients of aid are lazy, and are poor only because they choose to be. The reality is that the bulk of aid recipients belong to a working family struggling to make ends meet, not the irresponsible bloodsuckers you envision. Let's not demonize those who are trying their best to survive.
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Old 04-16-2015, 08:28 AM
 
743 posts, read 818,563 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
NC has and faces the same basic set of problems as every other US State.
In short, there are too many no/low skilled people; far more than job creation can ever solve.
Job creation can't even keep up with the annual crop that comes of age.

Outside of a few pockets of productivity there are too many people at higher skill levels as well.
Within those few pockets of productivity... some seem to be doing very well.
The middle skills gap is often overlooked but is key to employment growth & stability. Their are millions of potential jobs unfilled because companies have difficulty finding skilled workers that require 2 years or less training. It also doesn't help that High Schools have cut many programs aimed at sparking interest in some of these fields
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Southport
4,639 posts, read 6,334,198 times
Reputation: 3487
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandMike View Post
"The truth is that NC's economy has been crushed over the past 20 years by the movement of manufacturing jobs out of our country and the concurrent "corporatization" of the agricultural economy, both of which were enabled and encouraged by pro-business government policies that ignored the impact to the working class. Small-town and rural NC has endured mass factory closings, and small farms can no longer compete due to a regulatory and legal environment that is owned by big agri-business. The sources of working-class jobs have dried up, leaving us with a mass of people with no reasonable alternative but to seek government help."

How about the efforts of the one and only George Soros? Thank God for the Koch bros!

Oh I see, I Liberal that wants to blame someone else. OK here you go sweetheart. 20 years ago the Dems passed NAFTA that started the tidal wave of companies to move to other countries. Bill Clinton, Erskine Bowles...remember these names? Remember Springs Industries? Just one example of free trade that went bye, bye by Wacko's in office - both Reps and Dems!

Building a nanny state will not work. This is why poverty has increased in Charlotte 97% since his royal highness took office and we had two rubber stampers - Hagan and Perdue pushing more and more entitlements. Memo: the Government does not create jobs, companies and individuals create jobs. Regulate & tax our US Companies and open free trade to companies around the world paying employees 50 cents a day and our companies can't compete and see what happens? See ya company, see ya jobs.

People need to eat...I get it. But we are giving away food stamps and these poor are buying food at Walmart imported from China, Thailand, Mexico and elsewhere. How does this help our economy? This entire nightmare is to be blamed on both sides, but something needs to happen to stop the bleeding before we go bankrupt. If we keep spending what we do not have in the bank in the next 5-10 years...think of us being the next Greece. Is that what you want for your kids future?

Do you know what Bankruptcy means?

Someone with Brass Balls needs to put and end to all of this waste and nonsense going on in our state & federal government. People need to take responsibility and become productive members of society instead of sucking the blood out of our financial system. Government officials need to act responsible and start making decisions that help all citizens not just the cry babies. And... they need to stop building this culture of being on entitlements is the only career choice people have today. Living shameless is pathetic and the rest of the world sees us this way.
None of that is specific to NC, or any other state. What you are talking about is national and global in nature and doesn't address what the OP is talking about, unless you are saying NC is subject to the national and global forces affecting every state. But to try and pin all that on Beverly Perdue is absurd.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Southport
4,639 posts, read 6,334,198 times
Reputation: 3487
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevelandMike View Post
20 years ago the Dems passed NAFTA that started the tidal wave of companies to move to other countries.
Actually, sweetheart, NAFTA was the brainchild of George Herbert Hoover Walker Bush, a REPUBLICAN. In the house, 132 REPUBLICANS voted for it, as did 34 REPUBLICAN Senators.
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Old 04-16-2015, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Chapelboro
12,798 posts, read 16,225,724 times
Reputation: 11220
I'm not going to get into politics because I don't think that's what you're asking about.

NC, like the rest of the country, has suffered from an out-sourcing of manufacturing jobs over the past 50 years. This is certainly nothing that is unique to North Carolina and has happened all over the US.

NC used to be a major textile and furniture manufacturing center and most of that has dried up. High Point is still known for furniture, but many of the NC-based furniture makers have had to shut their doors over the last 50 years. Textiles were hit even harder and most of those plants closed in the 70s if not before. Tobacco was also previously huge in NC. RJR is still headquartered in Winston-Salem, but Durham used to be a big tobacco town, too. Don't know if you got a chance to go downtown in Durham and see the American Tobacco Campus, but that's a great example of what's going on in NC today. The old blue-collar jobs have faded away and tech, biotech, and finance have come in.

What is unique to NC is Research Triangle Park. It was created in the 60s through a partnership between the state of NC, the universities, and business interests. When the manufacturing jobs went away the high tech jobs moved in. And North Carolina as a whole has become a somewhat more wealthy state. We were one of the poorest states in the early part of the last century, but now have moved up closer to the middle of the pack, though overall our PCPI still ranks in the bottom half of the US. There is still plenty of poverty in NC and the loss of manufacturing sectors continues to hurt the blue collar and rural populations.

The housing growth you saw is not really new-new. It's been happening since the 70s when IBM moved a huge chunk of their operations from New York state to North Carolina (Charlotte, and later RTP). Forbes has consistently been ranking Raleigh as a great place to live for the past couple of decades or so, but the rural parts of the state continue to have problems with unemployment and poverty.

Here are a couple of resources that might be interesting. The first is an interactive map from a couple of years ago showing migration patterns across the country down to the county level (Raleigh is Wake Co, Charlotte is Mecklenburg). It's a little dated, but I just think the visualization is exceptionally well done: American Migration [Interactive Map] - Forbes .
The second is just a short article in the Triangle Business Journal about per capita income levels by county: Wake beats Durham in per capita income, but both have poor growth - Triangle Business Journal

Gentrification definitely has had an impact in some areas. The trend nationally seems to be edging toward urban living around a walkable downtown, etc. While we still have plenty of suburban development going in on former forests and fields in the Charlotte and Triangle regions in particular, both of those areas are also seeing some gentrification of older neighborhoods and poor folks are being priced out as developers tear down and fix up old low-income neighborhoods with nicer, newer places.

As for the next 5-10 years, just more of the same. This is a pattern that has been going on for the past 50 years. I see no sign of it stopping. High tech white collar jobs will continue to come in and blue-collar and rural sectors will not see that kind of growth. I'm sure the state would like to get an automotive plant, etc, but mostly South Carolina and Georgia seem to have better luck with that. We do well with pharma.

Oh, one other job sector that NC is known for is meat. NC is a leading pork producer and holds the dubious distinction of being home to the "world's largest slaughterhouse and meat-processing plant in the world, located in Tar Heel, North Carolina". We have also had a lot of chicken processing plants. I think several of them have closed in recent years, but I think we're still up there in turkey processing. So those are some of the blue-collar jobs we have to offer. Working at an automotive plant sure sounds better to me.

hth

Last edited by poppydog; 04-16-2015 at 09:33 AM..
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