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You make some good points and some other points that I don't agree with... but ... life is greatly about balance. When we're too far to one side... personally or socially, we get into trouble with ... balance.
[I]"Change is the ONLY constant in the universe."[/i]
No one can fight an idea who's time has come.
Think about all the other unfair, bigoted ideas people in have fought, died and killed to keep... yet are gone like dust in the wind now.
The Right for Women to Vote
Slavery
Integration of the Military
Eugenics
Prohibition
Sundown Laws
5 Day Work Week
Child Labor
Lynching
The legal slaughter of Native Americans
Marijuana legalization
Gay Marriage
Slavery...
Gone and nobody even thinks it's weird they're gone. In fact, we think it's barbaric that these were the norm in the United States.
Those things are gone and no longer an issue for most of us, but some people still hold on to them and are still in favor of them to a degree. Take abortion, for example...it was legalized by a Supreme Court decision but is still a current issue and is constantly on the forefront of political campaigns. I hope that marriage equality isn't like that, but you never know how the losing side will react to losing.
From what I read there are definitely TWO Americas, the first which is the settler, revolutionary, civil war America ( ethnically, Britsh Isles ( inc Scots-Irish), German, some French. Dutch. and Red Indian, African American), and the PC latter brigade Italian, southern Irish, Jewish, Hispanic, Russian, Scandanavian, Czech. Mexican, who don't have a grasp of the complexities of The original America, which I believe was not as **** as some non-settler Americans paint. Of course Racism was sick, that is Americas Achilles heal, but it is easier to look back in hindsight. The Lee flag is an easy target, it is a war flag, but the North was hardly a bastion of loving its black citizens, as many lynchings and burnings ( yes, Not ISIS) were in New York, by I am ashamed to say white Irish.....
Hung up alive in chains and set to the torch by the Irish New Yorkers who would gather and stare, some eating there lunch and joking as the poor wretch burned.. QUOTE
...As the US Calvary forced marched thousands of Cherokee's from The Carolinas and Georgia to Oklahoma, countless lives lost along the way exactly what flag do you think the US Calvary was flying?? And that is just one example.
Should Native Americans demand Old Glory be taken down and not flown on their reservations?
...
I can't answer for the Native Americans. But I would say that the flag you reference (SSB) represent a period of time much longer than the "Trail of Tears," as of current count - 239 years. A lot of things have happened - good and bad in this country during that period. Things that have matured and improved this country.
To answer this, I think you would have to ask Native Americans if they now feel that they are a part of the United States or not. I know many fought for this country during WWI and WWII, also I think Viet-Nam (not sure about Afghanistan or Iraq, but I would think so).
Last edited by blktoptrvl; 06-27-2015 at 06:22 PM..
From what I read there are definitely TWO Americas, the first which is the settler, revolutionary, civil war America ( ethnically, Britsh Isles ( inc Scots-Irish), German, some French. Dutch. and Red Indian, African American), and the PC latter brigade Italian, southern Irish, Jewish, Hispanic, Russian, Scandanavian, Czech. Mexican, who don't have a grasp of the complexities of The original America, which I believe was not as **** as some non-settler Americans paint. Of course Racism was sick, that is Americas Achilles heal, but it is easier to look back in hindsight. The Lee flag is an easy target, it is a war flag, but the North was hardly a bastion of loving its black citizens, as many lynchings and burnings ( yes, Not ISIS) were in New York, by I am ashamed to say white Irish.....
Too many people act as if lynchings and racism were a southern thing...I'm glad to see someone acknowledge that these things occurred throughout the U.S. More people should be made aware that racism wasn't/isn't a southern problem but a national problem.
I live in Illinois, for the next two weeks anyway, and have all my life. So I have no attachment to the confederate flag, but you do see them more often than you would think in downstate Illinois (anywhere outside of Chicago).
My personal feelings: I agree with removing the flag from any position of "officiality". In 2015 I do not believe it has any place flying over a statehouse in South Carolina, or as a component of a state flag like in Mississippi, representing the overall state and by association, everyone living under that flag.
However, I do not agree with stores pulling or banning the sale or availability of the flag for individual citizens. Some people may fly that flag for terrible reasons, but just as many if not more fly it for legitimate or even honorable reasons.
States and official institutions that have a reputation and responsibility to all groups they serve, be they white black, green, gray, or purple, should not utilize such a divisive symbol. But those same states and institutions should not infringe on the rights of individuals to purchase or own an item that is not inherently dangerous to others.
My Yankee perspective, probably more libertarian than anything I suppose.
Great response, and agree 100% (I am not a Yankee )
Blacks hate to admit that the very first man who EVER OWNED SLAVES in the United States, was in fact a black man himself. Mmm.
REALLY??
Please... post the source of this interesting piece of information!
The disgusting part of this post is not the distortion... but the fact that whites are STILL trying to defend the WORST form of slavery known to man... the slavery that occurred right here.
It's almost as if we're living under generational curses as a result.
The fact that Americans now take 80% of the world's PSYCH MEDS, pain killers and illegal drugs (.. and the vast majority taken by whites who have the highest levels of disposable incomes...), speaks to the fact that we're woefully out of balanced ... and just plain sick.
LOOK at the crimes!
The mass shootings ... Americans are crazy as betsy bugs... and getting CRAZIER.
DENIAL ... fueled by Right Wing idiology ... is reaping a horrible series of harvest.
Small town white Indiana now has an HIV epidemic because they didn't want to address the depression people were medicating with Oxycontin pills. So they made the pharmacies dispense only the hardened pills that couldn't be smashed and snorted. Then, they made it illegal to have a syringe. What did the addicts do? Learn to bake the pills ... and then inject them.
Not having access to clean needles created an H.I.V. epidemic in the anti-gay state of Indiana!! Oh man....
HISTORY LESSON:
It was ARABS who created the FIRST slave trade. They stabbed Black sub-Saharan Africans in the back and subjected 30 to 40 million Africans into slavery. Had this not happened, the European slave trade may never occurred.
WHY THE EUROPEAN SLAVE TRADE STARTED?
It was the two Catholic nations of Spain and Portugal (Latins) who were at war during a time that "Europe" was in a mini-ice age and the Vatican and other ruling families where in fear of losing power due to food riots. The Pope called those two nations together and issued a Papal Bull sanctioning them to go into Africa and do whatever they needed to subjugate Africans into slavery.
The Normans had held the Brits as slaves for 200 years.
The Irish had long been held as slaves.
Slavs too.
But the African slave trade became the most vile, and most brutal.
THREE times (MORE) the number of black people... PEOPLE... died during the Middle Passage... the boat ride over here.. than were estimated to have died in during the Jewish Holocaust.
That's the legacy we're still wrestling with today... the trauma whites and blacks generationally have inherited.
SPIRITUAL trauma.... and as Dr. M. Scott Peck put it, "Spiritual health is synonymous with Mental health."
Neither denial ... nor lies ... will get you well.
Defocus as much as you want to ... but it won't make the reality of our lives nor our shared history go away. We are CHARGED with the burden of evolving.
I used to work with addicts, alcoholics, and the mentally ill.
Much of the thinking I see posted here reflects the distortions made by people who have deteriorated to that level of existence.
] But the African slave trade became the most vile, and most brutal.
THREE times (MORE) the number of black people... PEOPLE... died during the Middle Passage... the boat ride over here.. than were estimated to have died in during the Jewish Holocaust.
That's the legacy we're still wrestling with today... the trauma whites and blacks generationally have inherited.
SPIRITUAL trauma.... and as Dr. M. Scott Peck put it, [color="Blue"][b]"Spiritual health is synonymous with Mental health." .
I really do not care a lot, but this post is so wildly insane, I had to comment. Of a little 10.7 million Africans were brought to the "New World" less than 400,000 were brought into what is now the United States. The vast majority were taken to South America or the Caribbean.
Casualty estimates for death on the middle passage range from 13 to 20%, though most estimates are close to 15%.
Assuming "worst case" based on the numbers and authoritative historians this means two million died in transit.
A horrific number by any metric.
However this is less than one half of the estimated 5.8 million European Jews killed during the holocaust,
The horror of slavery is evil enough, standing on its own. Hyping the horror only goes to minimize the credibility of those doing so. Quite unfortunate.
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Goddess???
