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I remember flying into RDU and overhearing a conversation regarding the fact that actual Raleigh/NC natives are hard to find in the area. That's when I truly knew transplants have shaped the Research Triangle, for better or for worse.
So you think those Duke, UNC, and NC State graduates are just flipping burgers after graduating from top schools? In fact most companies in NC pluck workers from local colleges quite often.
No, I think they are getting great jobs. I am just sharing my experience .
For example, I have interviewed 8 people, made offers to 5 of them and only one of them is "native" NC (moved 10 years ago), others come from the Midwest and Northeast, one we relocated. I'm not looking for kids out of college, I need experienced individuals.
There are fantastic colleges and universities here, but the Primary, Middle and High schools need a lot of catching up to do to prepare them for these schools, that and the teacher exodus is making it harder for our younger ones to be able to compete with kids coming from schools in the NE or MW.
There are fantastic colleges and universities here, but the Primary, Middle and High schools need a lot of catching up to do to prepare them for these schools
That doesn't really compute. I believe 80+% of students at UNC, the most selective state university, are mandated by the state to be in-state residents from North Carolina.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doh
My daughter goes to HS in Union County, I asked how many kids had gone to an Ivy from her school. The answer: Zero!
I think that's a reflection on your daughter's specific school. Plenty of kids in the Triangle go to Ivies if they want to. There are often several kids around here who get perfect scores on the SAT and ACT and get written up in the local papers. Even way back in the dark ages when I was growing up in Fayetteville I had classmates that went to Harvard.
That said I definitely think education at all levels in North Carolina needs more support from the state instead of all the cuts, etc, that has been happening in recent years. Just pretty awful.
My daughter goes to HS in Union County, I asked how many kids had gone to an Ivy from her school. The answer: Zero! We are looking at sending her to a boarding school in the NE because the public education system here is so lacking (it's not the no Ivy's there are so many things wrong)...
I wouldn't ask about Ivy League specifically--it's a NE thing to be obsessed with the Ivies. Ask about Wake Forest, Duke, Davidson, Emory, etc--southern schools of pretty much the same caliber. People in the South don't have that "OMG if you don't go to an Ivy you are nobody!!" attitude that so many in the NE do...so it's not that nobody COULD go to Ivies from that school, it's probably that they aren't interested.
You say that's not the reason you're looking into private, but yet it was what you chose to mention as part of your discussion, so clearly it IS something you are somewhat obsessed with.
Also, there are great private schools in NC (and likely much cheaper, with a lot less travel required to come home), but it sounds pretty clearly like you don't think anything but the NE is good enough for your baby, chacun a son gout...
Not that I don't agree with you about the statewide conditions of public education and especially the horrid things the governor/Legislature is doing to it, but that by no means says that NO schools in NC are worthwhile, especially in the metro areas.
The states that rank high in education also have the highest taxes in the country--it's a tradeoff.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppydog
That doesn't really compute. I believe 80+% of students at UNC, the most selective state university, are mandated by the state to be in-state residents from North Carolina.
I'm not sure that is a great measure, though, either. While UNC-CH is a very well-ranked public university, it is also relatively small compared to the size of the state it resides in. Only about 4500 students attend UNC-CH each year as a freshman compared to the about 100K students who graduate high school in NC each year. Just because at least 80% of ~4500 students at well-ranked UNC-CH are from NC does not necessarily mean that the middle and high schools in the state are doing a good job overall preparing their students for college and the workforce.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francois
I wouldn't ask about Ivy League specifically--it's a NE thing to be obsessed with the Ivies. Ask about Wake Forest, Duke, Davidson, Emory, etc--southern schools of pretty much the same caliber. People in the South don't have that "OMG if you don't go to an Ivy you are nobody!!" attitude that so many in the NE do...so it's not that nobody COULD go to Ivies from that school, it's probably that they aren't interested.
Someone once posted this great link that shows which states students come from for each college in the nation.
Number who came from NC and attended as a freshman in 2010:
UNC-CH: 3234 students
Wake Forest:: 266
Duke: 209
Davidson: 102
Emory: 33
UVA: 31
Vanderbilt: 29
William & Mary: 19
Students from NC attended:
NC state: 4205
East Carolina: 3596
UNC - CH: 3234
UNC - Charlotte: 2624
Appalachian State: 2527
UNC - Greensboro: 2250
NC Ag & Tech: 1762
UNC Wilimington: 1625
Western Carolina: 1318
NC Central: 1014
UNC - Pembroke: 1000
Campbell: 690
Winston Salem State: 606
Elizabeth City State: 517
Fayetteville State: 511
Wingate: 502
Other NC College: 5737
And just for fun:
Harvard: 22
Yale: 21
Princeton: 19
I'm not sure that is a great measure, though, either. While UNC-CH is a very well-ranked public university, it is also relatively small compared to the size of the state it resides in. Only about 4500 students attend UNC-CH each year as a freshman compared to the about 100K students who graduate high school in NC each year. Just because at least 80% of ~4500 students at well-ranked UNC-CH are from NC does not necessarily mean that the middle and high schools in the state are doing a good job overall preparing their students for college and the workforce.
But John specifically said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Doh:
There are fantastic colleges and universities here, but the Primary, Middle and High schools need a lot of catching up to do to prepare them for these schools
And my point was, our primary, middle and high schools do seem to prepare kids just fine for our state universities. It's not like UNC is having to lower the bar to get enough kids in or anything (digs on athletics understood, you don't have to go there, many more students than those few). Duke, of course is perennially popular with folks from the Northeast, but there's many a NC kid who would not go there. Me, for one. I didn't even apply, because I knew I wouldn't go if I got in and didn't want to waste the application fee.
I'm sure there are plenty of kids from John's daughter's Union County high school who will go to UNC and NC State. Probably some that will go to Davidson (I personally have many friends and relations who went there) and a few will go to Duke (poor deluded souls).
John, if you're interested in having your child go to a boarding school consider having her apply to NC School of Science and Math (state run, merit-based). If she can get in there she'll definitely be challenged.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppydog
But John specifically said:
And my point was, our primary, middle and high schools do seem to prepare kids just fine for our state universities. It's not like UNC is having to lower the bar to get enough kids in or anything (digs on athletics understood, you don't have to go there, many more students than those few). Duke, of course is perennially popular with folks from the Northeast, but there's many a NC kid who would not go there. Me, for one. I didn't even apply, because I knew I wouldn't go if I got in and didn't want to waste the application fee.
I'm sure there are plenty of kids from John's daughter's Union County high school who will go to UNC and NC State. Probably some that will go to Davidson (I personally have many friends and relations who went there) and a few will go to Duke (poor deluded souls).
John, if you're interested in having your child go to a boarding school consider applying to NC School of Science and Math (state run, merit-based). If she can get in there she'll definitely be challenged.
Yes, the middle and high schools might prepare them for NC's state universities - but not necessarily for the "fantastic universities that are here." I don't know which universities John considers fantastic, but to me, "fantastic universities" are those that are ranked highly nationally such as Duke, UNC, and Wake Forest in NC and some others in the south such as Emory, Vanderbilt, UVA and William and Mary. According to the link I posted, we know that in 2010 about 3200 NC students went to UNC-Ch with approx. 800 more going to Duke, Wake Forest, UVA, Vanderbilt, Emory, etc. That's about 4000 students out of about 100K high school graduates in the state that went to highly ranked southern universities.
And while NC State is a good school, it is certainly not "elite" like the others listed above (and that's not a dig on NC State, I didn't go to an "elite" university either). But even if you wanted to include NC State in the list above as a "fantastic university," then there are 4,000 more students that are prepared enough to go to a highly ranked university. That's 8,000 total out of 100,000.
Is that a good number/percentage compared to the number who graduated high school? I don't know, but I'm guessing it's not as good as many other states. What about the other approx. 92,000 students that graduated in 2010? Did they receive a good education? Most of the other NC state universities aren't well known outside of the state. How does the education the students get in NC at the high school level compare to the education students are getting in other states? What percentage of other states' students are being well educated enough to go to elite universities. How does NC compare?
As most people are aware, and as you and Francois both noted, the funding is going down in this state, there are more people moving here putting pressure on the schools, and there is an increase in testing, standards, more special ed. students, ELL students, etc. Unless something changes, the quality of education the students receive will likely go down compared to other states. And when you come from one of those other states, it can be a bit frustrating.
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