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Having a research park is not a justification for having a subpar core. There are plenty of examples of being able to have both.
Yes, and the research park is set up specifically to benefit the two largest cities in the region. Raleigh and Durham. Again, there are two main downtown's in this region...not 1. And it will always be that way.
It has nothing to do with Raleigh not wanting a great downtown.
Having a research park is not a justification for having a subpar core. There are plenty of examples of being able to have both.
There is room for Raleigh’s core to get better, and it is, but when for 40 years your main area of employment has been outside the city limits, that is a fairly major deal that is fairly unique.
There is room for Raleigh’s core to get better, and it is, but when for 40 years your main area of employment has been outside the city limits, that is a fairly major deal that is fairly unique.
The main employment in Raleigh is the State of NC. If it invested more in Raleigh's downtown it would be bigger. But it rents facilities all over the place. The DOT is moving to the old Hardee's building in Rocky Mount.
Comparing Charlotte's skyline with anything in NC is pointless. Charlotte's skyline is simply off the hook and there is no way anything will change that in our lifetime. Charlotte has [successfully] invested in the banking industry and that is where much of the high-rise growth has come from - Duke Power, as well. As a consequence of the many high-paying jobs, residential high-rises were also viable. Charlotte has chosen to create a big image city and it shows.
Raleigh, along with Greensboro, Durham and Winston-Salem - have chosen different paths, with focus on smaller companies that may not find it necessary to operate out of Uptown Charlotte. We have chosen to balance our growth by spreading it along several smaller industries - not that technology is a small industry - with emphasis on home-grown companies. This path will take a very long time to bear fruits and help us create a respectable skyline. Although I generally agree that skyline isn't everything, the lack of it in cities like Raleigh could send wrong messages. Where is the growth? Why would a big company consider Downtown Raleigh if they have been looking at the same skyline for over 10 years? The bad news for us is that there will be nothing of significant height for a very long time. PNC Plaza, Two Hanover Square and Wells Fargo Plaza will remain the three tallest high-rises for Raleigh for longer than most of us think. Even Smokey Hollow Phase 3 may not add the kind of height to challenge Wells Fargo. The scariest part for me - and some may strongly disagree - is that we continue to lose prime real estate to projects between 9 and 20 floors. This will continue until the only parcels available for redevelopment will be the ones where smaller historic buildings are currently standing.
Comparing Charlotte's skyline to any other skyline in this state would be a waste of time. There is no need to defend Raleigh's skyline. Some of you already explained the reasons, but I want to add some more. Our local business community is not interested in doing much in the core of our city. First Citizens Bank is the perfect example, but there are more. Only a few local developers are truly capable of delivering something big, and even fewer actually want to enter the Downtown market. The city leaders are too busy catering to the NIMBY hordes, who also happen to be their voters. Securing their position seems to be more important, although there are some of them who actually were NIMBYs, before they were elected. Today's Triangle Business Journal had a nice article on density, titled Raleigh city council grapples with density talk, from which I will share the following excerpt:
Quote:
It’s difficult to say exactly how the Raleigh City Council’s current stance toward density and development is affecting people who build in the city, but those in the industry say the council’s slant is at least part of the consideration of doing business in Raleigh.
Others say some developers are sitting out the council, waiting until there is a political change to propose projects. Rezoning applications to the city were down to 36 in 2018, from a recent high of 48 applications in 2016, according to the planning department.
Morningstar attorney Mack Paul, who works on land-use and zoning issues, attributes the decline in part to a change in land-use rules three years ago that gave developers more certainty in the development approval process if they proposed projects within the existing zoning rules.
But the council’s stance toward density is also likely responsible for the reduction in rezoning cases. “The decline in rezoning applications reflects both a perception of a more challenging environment where many councilors have pledged to prioritize neighborhood protection and a shift in zoning,” Paul says.
Regardless of how that affects the bottom line of developers, there are prominent voices in the community who say limiting density is just bad municipal policy.
You may interpret the above in a couple of different ways, but the bottom line is that there is no unified front to make Downtown Raleigh the true focus of development. There are some "romantic" promoters who keep the effort alive, but I personally find the current city council to be too little to deliver the goods. I am not suggesting they don't love their city, but their agenda will always conflict with the grande vision we had for Downtown Raleigh - and not only Downtown. Thankfully, we have a developer (John Kane) who has a way of getting things done and he is slowly increasing his activity in Downtown Raleigh, but one is not enough.
Last, but not least, I wish some Charlotte players - companies and developers - could enter Downtown Raleigh with some ambitious plans. I think that Duke Power owes us at least that much, since they emptied Two Progress Plaza and scattered many Progress Energy workers around the Triangle. The new bank (BB&T-SunTrust) could also do something to increase its presence in the Triangle, starting with a much larger Downtown Raleigh workforce. I know... Wishful thinking.
The main employment in Raleigh is the State of NC. If it invested more in Raleigh's downtown it would be bigger. But it rents facilities all over the place. The DOT is moving to the old Hardee's building in Rocky Mount.
Having a research park is not a justification for having a subpar core. There are plenty of examples of being able to have both.
"Subpar core"? Care to explain? Raleigh's core may not be superb, but it surely isn't subpar either. There are many cities with better looking skylines that when it comes to the street level experience they fall short comparing to Raleigh. There are, of course, smaller cities that feel superior to Raleigh at the street level, but you get the idea.
Having a research park is not a justification for having a subpar core. There are plenty of examples of being able to have both.
?? A subpar core by what standard? By postcard standards?... And I'm sorry but what other examples do you know of with a 2-2.5m metro with the largest research park in the country and two massive cores bookend it? Idk of any...
I would also add that the Charlotte market especially Mecklenburg has shifted toward denser muti-family development. Even single family homes are being built on smaller lots than they were 15-20 years ago
It was putting it into perspective by comparing to the 4 (future) tallest towers in Raleigh’s skyline. Except those won’t be Raleigh’s 4 tallest towers.
Exactly, to the part in bold.
I don't care what the 4 tallest will be including those outside of downtown Raleigh. Because it's outside of downtown. And I'm only using downtown as a measuring stick. And I chose downtown Raleigh because I think pretty highly of it.
If I was trying to figure out which city had the tallest towers, sure. I would absolutely count North Hills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent Y
?? A subpar core by what standard? By postcard standards?... And I'm sorry but what other examples do you know of with a 2-2.5m metro with the largest research park in the country and two massive cores bookend it? Idk of any...
^ I was going to say exactly this. For a 2.5M metro.... The downtown is nice, seems reasonable. Even if Downtown Durham and RTP didn't exist, I still think the downtown would be above average.
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Thank you for sharing it with us.
