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Another reason for the heavy in-commuting is the perceived undesirability of living in Durham.
That perception you speak of is another factor that holds Durham back from being number 3. Honestly, Greensboro and Durham are probably interchangeable at the moment, with Durham taking a clear lead by 2030-2035.
With new developments in downtown Durham, such as the new Innovation District, the city is pulling in companies that might otherwise locate in adjacent RTP facilities, such as the Alexandria Innovation Center, Frontier RTP and Parmer RTP as examples. Plus, Durham has a very robust startup ecosystem. And of course, Duke University is a giant, and influences much of what happens in Durham.
DPAC vs. Tanger Center is irrelevant. No firm opinion on A&T vs Central, but I lean towards A&T being stronger.
Greensboro is more of a "legacy" city in many ways, with Durham on a strong upward growth trajectory. It's not polite to say that Durham is more important than Greensboro, so I won't.
Based on economic and cultural reasons, I'd say that Durham is slightly more significant than Greensboro. Think about it.......
Duke
RTP
Durham Bulls
Most liberal NC county
Most racially diverse NC county
DPAC
NC Central
Don't get me wrong, Greensboro has got a lot going for itself. The airport, the college's, ACC headquarters, Mack truck global headquarters, etc. It's just that Durham is so significant that Durham pulls over 50,000 daily commuters out of Wake county. That's one of the reasons why Durham is still its own MSA. Its job market is so strong that less than 25% of its workforce has to commute into much larger Wake. I'd bet that if Guilford were Wake's neighbor instead of Durham, Raleigh-Greensboro would be the same MSA. Durham is simply a stronger stand-alone city than Greensboro.
How does one quantify the value of quality of life?
Durham still has too much crime.
Greensboro serves as the major metropolitan area for Southern Virginia in the Western part.
Chariotte's GDP must significantly consist of the banking industry's revenues, services no?
Because to be over double that of the triangle is quite significant. Or is that just the Raleigh/Cary new partial MSA which is about 60% of the true Triangle region?
How does one quantify the value of quality of life?
Durham still has too much crime.
Greensboro serves as the major metropolitan area for Southern Virginia in the Western part.
Chariotte's GDP must significantly consist of the banking industry's revenues, services no?
Because to be over double that of the triangle is quite significant. Or is that just the Raleigh/Cary new partial MSA which is about 60% of the true Triangle region?
Charlotte's GDP is $ 170 billion
Raleigh- Cary's GDP is $ 84 billion
Durham-Chapel Hill's GDP is $ 55 billion
Charlotte GDP = $ 170 billion
Triangle GDP = $ 139 billion
Durham does have too much crime. It is also a city undergoing a very rapid shift in terms of gentrification in the downtown areas. I suspect demographic shifts will alter the crime rates to some degree. All cities have crime, including Raleigh, Charlotte and Greensboro.
Greensboro serves as an anchor city of the Piedmont Triad region of NC. Not sure how that relates to Southern Virginia.
Charlotte's GDP is $ 170 billion
Raleigh- Cary's GDP is $ 84 billion
Durham-Chapel Hill's GDP is $ 55 billion
Charlotte GDP = $ 170 billion
Triangle GDP = $ 139 billion
Durham does have too much crime. It is also a city undergoing a very rapid shift in terms of gentrification in the downtown areas. I suspect demographic shifts will alter the crime rates to some degree. All cities have crime, including Raleigh, Charlotte and Greensboro.
Greensboro serves as an anchor city of the Piedmont Triad region of NC. Not sure how that relates to Southern Virginia.
2020 GDP projection
Charlotte GDP = $ 205.3 billion
Triangle GDP = $ 148.5 billion
As for southern Virginia, Danville takes care of that just fine.
Recent Forbes article discussing the importance of UNC's startup prowess in RTP:
CHAPEL HILL – Increasingly, the Research Triangle Park region and North Carolina is becoming a hotbed for startups and entrepreneurs, fueled in part by universities like the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Duke University and NC State University. The recent Forbes article “How North Carolina is Fueling Startup Success†names UNC-affiliated startups Simple Mills and Pryon as two of the many successful startups that faculty, students and alumni of UNC-Chapel have launched in recent years.
Such Carolina-connected companies – along with numerous others that have emerged from NC State and Duke – are indicators that the Triangle is a region teeming with entrepreneurial talent and new ventures. “This metro has arrived on the national stage as a player for almost any company,†the article’s author Pete Wilkins says. “So whether you’re a budding startup considering a place to set-up shop, or a well-established enterprise ready to expand, this region might be the spot for you.â€
As Wilkins outlines in his Forbes article, when you consider the combined startups and entrepreneurial expertise associated with the three major research universities in the Research Triangle Park area, the current and potential for future impact grows more impressive. “Located at the center of three tier-one universities — North Carolina State University, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and Duke University — the park’s 7,000 acres houses hundreds of companies, including science and technology firms, government agencies, academic institutions, startups, and nonprofits,†the story notes.
The story points to local economic results that paint the Triangle, and North Carolina more broadly, as a boomtown for new ventures. “Raleigh boasts a greater volume of high-growth companies per capita than NYC and Seattle. Furthermore, North Carolina’s tech industry has grown by 20.6% over the past five years, which is the third-highest growth rate in the country,†Wilkins says.
A look at innovation programs and startups associated specifically with UNC-Chapel Hill demonstrates the contribution that Carolina makes to the larger startup and entrepreneurial ecosystem described in the Forbes piece. Sparked by Carolina’s commitment to building to a top-tier entrepreneurship education program and creating a campus-wide Innovate Carolina network to provide the tools and resources that innovators need to thrive, the number of budding entrepreneurs and startup companies nurtured by UNC-Chapel Hill continues to grow. Recent industry rankings demonstrate a strong institutional foundation for faculty, students and alumni who want to pursue ideas that make a social or economic impact. U.S. News & World Report ranks UNC-Chapel Hill in the top ten in undergraduate entrepreneurship education, while Reuters named Carolina as the number six most innovative university in the world."
Just kidding, place Winston Salem behind Greensboro and drop Cape Hatteras off of the list. Here is my new list.....
1 Raleigh
2 Charlotte
3 Durham
4 Greensboro
5 Winston Salem
6 Fayetteville
7 Wilmington
8 Asheville
9 Jacksonville
10 Chapel Hill
11 High Point
12 Goldsboro
13 Concord
14 Greenville
15 Boone
You are pretty good up until 8 (except Charlotte is obviously ahead of Raleigh)...although I think Wilmington will surpass Fayetteville down the line in terms of overall relevance because of its growth. After that I think the list should read...
9 Greenville
10 Jacksonville
11 High Point
12 Outer Banks
13 Concord
14 Chapel Hill
15 Boone
Goldsboro doesnt make my list....and you were on the right path with the influence of the Outer Banks...which adds a ton to the economy of NC.
It's just that Durham is so significant that Durham pulls over 50,000 daily commuters out of Wake county. That's one of the reasons why Durham is still its own MSA. Its job market is so strong that less than 25% of its workforce has to commute into much larger Wake.
I would truly like to see graphic maps of just where these commuters are going (home to work), but I'd highly suspect that this is mostly about RTP proper and its perimeter office parks in both Durham and Wake Counties on either side of RTP. While there's clearly going to be commuters to the respective core cities from to the opposite county, I'd bet my life that the majority of the commuting energy happens around the county line between the two. Because of RTP, it's extremely easy to live in Wake (far NW Raleigh, north Cary, Morrisville) and work in Durham County. Conversely, It's also extremely easy to live in southern Durham and work in Wake County. As a reminder, all of RTP is not in Durham County. The Wake side has Cisco, NetApp, Lenovo, Biogen, Credit Suisse, and some other smaller operations. It also has hundreds of acres of land that's been purchased by a lobbyist tied to Apple.
Durham is doing a much better job of embracing RTP this Century than in the past one, and I think that that has contributed to its rise in prominence as real contender to be NC's 3rd city. That said, it is hard to ignore the first city of North Carolina's "3rd metro", the Triad. Greensboro is still larger than Durham, and it headlines a metro that isn't in the immediate shadow of either Charlotte or Raleigh.
I would truly like to see graphic maps of just where these commuters are going (home to work), but I'd highly suspect that this is mostly about RTP proper and its perimeter office parks in both Durham and Wake Counties on either side of RTP. While there's clearly going to be commuters to the respective core cities from to the opposite county, I'd bet my life that the majority of the commuting energy happens around the county line between the two. Because of RTP, it's extremely easy to live in Wake (far NW Raleigh, north Cary, Morrisville) and work in Durham County. Conversely, It's also extremely easy to live in southern Durham and work in Wake County. As a reminder, all of RTP is not in Durham County. The Wake side has Cisco, NetApp, Lenovo, Biogen, Credit Suisse, and some other smaller operations. It also has hundreds of acres of land that's been purchased by a lobbyist tied to Apple.
Durham is doing a much better job of embracing RTP this Century than in the past one, and I think that that has contributed to its rise in prominence as real contender to be NC's 3rd city. That said, it is hard to ignore the first city of North Carolina's "3rd metro", the Triad. Greensboro is still larger than Durham, and it headlines a metro that isn't in the immediate shadow of either Charlotte or Raleigh.
You are correct in stating that most commuting is to facilities either inside of, or adjacent to, RTP. My sister-in-law commutes from North Raleigh to the Palmer RTP campus. It's near downtown Durham, but it's in RTP.
This is a very subjective list, because a larger city does not necessarily equate to a "more important" city. For example, Chapel Hill is a smaller city, but a hugely "important" city, because of UNC-CH and RTP.
Here's my "Top 12" version:
My list:
1. Charlotte
2. Raleigh-Cary
3. Durham
4. Chapel Hill
5. Winston-Salem
6. Greensboro
7. Greenville
8. Asheville
9. Wilmington
10. Fayetteville
11. High Point
12. Suburbs of Charlotte & Raleigh (tied)
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