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These are my top ten most important cities in NC. I'm not going to bother explaining Charlotte and Raleigh as they are so far ahead of the rest.
1 - Charlotte
2 - Raleigh
3 - Greensboro - this is definitely going to be the spot to watch for the next decades, but I think Greensboro still holds the final spot on the podium for now. Obviously GSO is playing catch-up to Durham in terms of urban entertainment, but it feels like Greensboro has a lot of momentum currently. Now that FNB Field and Lebauer Park are complete, and the S Elm St area has heated up, there's a lot more to do than even just a few years ago, and Tanger PAC will be a huge addition to downtown once it's complete. Greensboro is the the only city in NC other than Charlotte and Raleigh with a 20+ story building in the works, so there's also that.
4 - Durham - a few years ago, I might have actually put Durham ahead of Greensboro, but it seems like Durham has hit a bit of a wall recently. One City Center was an absolutely monumental development, and the Van Alen/555 Mangum midrises are solid additions as well, but those are nearing completion and not much has been announced since. I do think that Durham is in a better long-term spot however, and barring something unusual should take the third spot from Greensboro in the somewhat near future.
5 - Cary - super suburban, which I think limits its long-term prospects, but Cary has several major employers and in my opinion the best parks/greenway system in the state. Downtown has a decent vision behind it, but if any municipality could drop a few ranks in this list, it's probably Cary due to the extent of its suburban nature.
6 - Winston-Salem - feels like the sleeping giant of NC. There's some good stuff going on around the Bailey Park/IQ area, but WS has lost several HQs to Charlotte in just the past few years, and I think it's going to be hard to turn the ship around at this point, especially now that Greensboro has begun to heat up. Lots of potential though.
7 - Kannapolis - if there has ever been a municipality in NC to go completely unnoticed (I don't think it's even been mentioned in this thread yet), it's Kannapolis. It's in a reeeeeally good spot, as Charlotte is within easy commuting distance, downtown is being completely revitalized, and it has an existing (albeit small) employment hub bordering downtown with the NC Research Campus, plus the city has a plan that isn't anything to laugh at. Downtown has several relatively massive projects going on at once between the hundreds of apartments currently under construction, baseball field nearing completion, and extensive streetscape. Also, if a commuter rail is ever established in the Charlotte area, Kannapolis will be perfectly positioned to benefit from it due to its downtown Amtrak station.
8 - Wilmington - huge for the coastal area of the state, but a bit stuck due to how tourist-based the economy is.
9 - Asheville - huge for the western part of the state, but in the same boat as Wilmington. Edged out by Wilmington due to rougher winters in the mountains.
10 - Greenville - in a tough spot due to how NC's economy has clustered around the larger cities. The presence of ECU, coupled with how much the surrounding areas depend on Greenville, are enough to land it in the top ten though.
There are some other cities throughout the state such as Chapel Hill and Fayetteville that are either bordering massive employment centers, or are stuck with little opportunity for growth. Concord will be interesting to watch, as it has established itself as a manufacturing/distribution hub with a solid downtown, and Gastonia could heat up really quickly if/when it gets its FUSE baseball and entertainment district underway.
Interesting list. Regarding Cary, it's traditional suburban nature actually works to its advantage, as it has a huge potential for continued infill and density. Projects like the new Fenton Mixed Use development will become the norm. It's proximity to RTP puts it in a prime location for continued growth and density.
Same for Durham; it continues to be one of the fastest growing cities in the state, and to the contrary, there's a lot going on there now, such as the 1.7 million square foot Innovation Distruct currently under construction. It has one of the best startup ecosystems in the state, and Duke University is a huge factor there.
I like Greensboro, and still like to think of it as #3 city in the state, but that's primarily a legacy thing. Durham will overtake it in population in the near future, and then it becomes moot.
You could actually make the argument for ranking Winston-Salem over Greensboro, primarily due to the strength of WFU. It could go either way IMO.
Fenton’s location is along the Cary Town Boulevard at I-40, Town of Cary, Wake County, North Carolina. The project is adjacent to the Wake Med Soccer Park.
SCOPE of PROJECT
Over 2.5 Million Square Feet Retail, Office, Restaurant, Hotel and Multi-Family. 1 Million SF of Class A Office, 440,000 SF of Specialty Retail, 800+ Multi-Family units, 2 Boutique Hotels
POPULATION
946,164 Daytime Population
AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD INCOME (20 MINUTE DRIVE TIME)
$104,045
ANCHORS/MAJOR TENANTS
125,000 SF Wegmans Food Market, Inc.
36,000 SF Boutique Theater
TOTAL INVESTMENT
$850 Million
AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD INCOMES $100,000+
129,093
Developer is Hines based in Houston, TX.
Last edited by Mr. Raleigh; 02-13-2020 at 08:06 PM..
Interesting list. Regarding Cary, it's traditional suburban nature actually works to its advantage, as it has a huge potential for continued infill and density. Projects like the new Fenton Mixed Use development will become the norm. It's proximity to RTP puts it in a prime location for continued growth and density.
Same for Durham; it continues to be one of the fastest growing cities in the state, and to the contrary, there's a lot going on there now, such as the 1.7 million square foot Innovation Distruct currently under construction. It has one of the best startup ecosystems in the state, and Duke University is a huge factor there.
I like Greensboro, and still like to think of it as #3 city in the state, but that's primarily a legacy thing. Durham will overtake it in population in the near future, and then it becomes moot.
You could actually make the argument for ranking Winston-Salem over Greensboro, primarily due to the strength of WFU. It could go either way IMO.
Cary does have some opportunities for infill around downtown, but once sprawling subdivisions are built, it's pretty difficult to increase density beyond that. Projects like Fenton will help, but they will generally be islands of urbanity within a sea of suburbs. I just think that long-term, if people continue to gravitate towards walkable urban areas, most of Cary will suffer because it's generally highly unwalkable (even with sidewalks everywhere).
Durham has had an amazing past decade of development, but as of right now there's just not much planned after the current group of projects are wrapped up. I do think that we're approaching the end of the current period of economic expansion though, and outside of Charlotte and Raleigh we probably won't see many more large developments during this cycle (other than the 20-story tower coming to Greensboro). So maybe that's why new announcements have slowed down in Durham.
I really like WS and wanted to rank it higher, but economically it's having a hard time keeping up with Greensboro, let alone Raleigh, Durham, and Charlotte. I do think that setting up the Innovation Quarter will be beneficial long-term, but it will take a while for it to pick up momentum, especially since there are several established research districts throughout the state. The Triad as a whole has quite a few very solid universities, so I think education is roughly equal across the board, which led to local economies being my main differentiator between GSO and WS.
Cary does have some opportunities for infill around downtown, but once sprawling subdivisions are built, it's pretty difficult to increase density beyond that. Projects like Fenton will help, but they will generally be islands of urbanity within a sea of suburbs. I just think that long-term, if people continue to gravitate towards walkable urban areas, most of Cary will suffer because it's generally highly unwalkable (even with sidewalks everywhere).
Durham has had an amazing past decade of development, but as of right now there's just not much planned after the current group of projects are wrapped up. I do think that we're approaching the end of the current period of economic expansion though, and outside of Charlotte and Raleigh we probably won't see many more large developments during this cycle (other than the 20-story tower coming to Greensboro). So maybe that's why new announcements have slowed down in Durham.
I really like WS and wanted to rank it higher, but economically it's having a hard time keeping up with Greensboro, let alone Raleigh, Durham, and Charlotte. I do think that setting up the Innovation Quarter will be beneficial long-term, but it will take a while for it to pick up momentum, especially since there are several established research districts throughout the state. The Triad as a whole has quite a few very solid universities, so I think education is roughly equal across the board, which led to local economies being my main differentiator between GSO and WS.
I actually think that Winston-Salem will eventually surpass Greensboro, only because WS has had more success transitioning from the tobacco-textiles-furniture economy.
Cary and Durham are on fire. Not sure why you think that nothing is happening in either city.
FWIW, overall Cary is already as dense as Charlotte. In fact, it may be denser by a bit. I just don't know because I don't know the current land are of each city. I don't trust what I read on Wikipedia.
FWIW, overall Cary is already as dense as Charlotte. In fact, it may be denser by a bit. I just don't know because I don't know the current land are of each city. I don't trust what I read on Wikipedia.
Mecklenburg County
1,093,901 population
523.6 land area
2,089.3 density (per square mile)
Wake County
1,092,305 population
834.8 land area
1,308.4 density (per square mile)
The county stats show the sum of ALL land (both incorporated and unincorporated). City limits can skip over undeveloped areas (which makes densities on paper look higher than the actual density on the ground).
Mecklenburg County
1,093,901 population
523.6 land area
2,089.3 density (per square mile)
Wake County
1,092,305 population
834.8 land area
1,308.4 density (per square mile)
The county stats show the sum of ALL land (both incorporated and unincorporated). City limits can skip over undeveloped areas (which makes densities on paper look higher than the actual density on the ground).
1. This thread is about cities. Not counties.
2. I'm interested in seeing your source or proof of the bolded. But regardless, why would a city count unincorporated land if it's not.. the cities land?
3. Where is the proof this is the case with Charlotte and Cary anyways?
2. I'm interested in seeing your source or proof of the bolded. But regardless, why would a city count unincorporated land if it's not.. the cities land?
3. Where is the proof this is the case with Charlotte and Cary anyways?
The proof is in the fact that Wake county towns are far more dense on paper than the county stats would suggest. Furthermore, they look far less dense in person than the density claims. Lastly, you can look at any city limits maps of Wake county and the "spider legs", "islands", and "doughnut holes" are all over the place; ALL are clear signs of annexing developed areas while skipping over undeveloped areas.
Or, you can totally ignore logic and reason.......LOL.....And simply BELIEVE that Cary, Raleigh, Fuquay, and Zebulon are more dense than Charlotte. I'll keep my mouth shut about the difference between real density and on paper density.
In your spare time, you should look up the on paper density of Kansas City (current Superbowl champs!!!) and compare it to Raleigh.....Then look up photos of Kansas City. When you do that, check back in with me and maybe then we'll have an intelligent conversation about this topic.
The proof is in the fact that Wake county towns are far more dense on paper than the county stats would suggest. Furthermore, they look far less dense in person than the density claims. Lastly, you can look at any city limits maps of Wake county and the "spider legs", "islands", and "doughnut holes" are all over the place; ALL are clear signs of annexing developed areas while skipping over undeveloped areas.
Or, you can totally ignore logic and reason.......LOL.....And simply BELIEVE that Cary, Raleigh, Fuquay, and Zebulon are more dense than Charlotte. I'll keep my mouth shut about the difference between real density and on paper density.
In your spare time, you should look up the on paper density of Kansas City (current Superbowl champs!!!) and compare it to Raleigh.....Then look up photos of Kansas City. When you do that, check back in with me and maybe then we'll have an intelligent conversation about this topic.
Oh so you are just big mad somebody stated a fact. Gotcha. The key word in rncb2s post was "overall."
I think everybody knows in the real world, walking around, driving around, etc etc that Charlotte in all practicality is more dense then any other city in NC. But by the numbers you can't say that. Charlotte city is Charlotte city. You may hate those that live in the rural parts of it that drag your density down but you are all in it together buddy. Start a petition for un-annexation or something idk.
And let's not act like the Wake cities are magically the only ones to have weird city limits. I don't know a single city that has a perfect 360 degree boundary cut for it's limits.
Oh so you are just big mad somebody stated a fact. Gotcha. The key word in rncb2s post was "overall."
I think everybody knows in the real world, walking around, driving around, etc etc that Charlotte in all practicality is more dense then any other city in NC. But by the numbers you can't say that. Charlotte city is Charlotte city. You may hate those that live in the rural parts of it that drag your density down but you are all in it together buddy. Start a petition for un-annexation or something idk.
And let's not act like the Wake cities are magically the only ones to have weird city limits. I don't know a single city that has a perfect 360 degree boundary cut for it's limits.
Actually, those low density areas are why our average home prices are "cheaper" than Raleigh and Cary. In reality though, the higher density more desirable areas of Charlotte are far more expensive than much of Wake county (but we'll keep that between us).
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