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I will say this though, my sisters are a lot older than I am and I was an aunt by the time I was six. I don't recall any of my nieces and nephews calling me aunt anything. They always used my first name. Now as I am 54, the grandchildren of my mother ended with my last child and the great grandchildren started with my sister's daughter four months later. Then a generation down, when I am having grand children now, my sisters are having great grand children. There is only two months difference in my first grandchild and my sister's first great grand child.
As usual, I have to say I agree Bethany ...My mom the oldest of seven children & her youngest sibling was only 5 years older than me..I never called him Uncle Ted, just Ted... but all the other older aunts/uncles were always called Aunt Sue/Uncle Bob, etc.
I teach my daughter (she's 5), as I was taught, to refer to family friends, by their first name "Miss Maggie & Mr. Robert". Those who are authority figures, like teachers, or any adult that is not a close friend, is referred to by their last name "Mrs. Taylor & Mr. Taylor", as a greater sign of respect. Incidentally, these rules don't just apply to children. I'm 37 & I use exactly the same protocol.
These unspoken rules are about simply about having good manners & showing respect for your elders....If the neighbor's son & daughter are 18 or older, then they are to be called "Miss Sarah & Mr. Matt" by my daughter, but Sarah & Matt, by myself. If the neighbor's children are 10, they're called just Sarah & Matt, by myself & my daughter.
On a parallel scale, family members are Aunt Josie & Uncle Tom, never Josie & Tom....that protocol is skipped for cousins...so there is no Cousin Josie....just Josie, by all.
If my daughter needs to address someone we don't know, like a cashier or clerk, then it's... M'am or Sir, how much is this item? As they are surely older than her. For me, it's slightly different: If I need to similarly address them...it's the same, if they are older than I...M'am or Sir, how much is this item? ... but, if they are younger than I...a new protocol: I'm female. If I address a younger female clerk, then I'd say...Miss, how much is this item?....but because I'm female, I'd not be expected to address a younger male similarly, as Sir. I'd just say...excuse me, how much is this item?
Note that in the last examples above, I'd use good manners & have enough respect, in each instance to acknowledge the person I'm speaking, versus just rudely demanding of them "how much is this item?"--I'd, of course, always respond with "thank you" & not just walk off, after being given a response. Using good manners, & showing respect, are truly core values for a southerner & they are taught to children from the time they are tots. Not doing would not only be considered rude, but totally uncouth. I think this is truly a huge reason that those who are not southern (I hate to throw the "Y" word in again) are seen negatively by us the moment they open their mouths. And in all fairness, I'd conversely say it's very, very true that it's a highly recognizable & immediate way we size each other up...it's an outward badge of social standing even amongst ourselves.
To illustrate my point....I didn't marry until I was 28. So, it's fair to say I dated for large number of years. My mother's first question, about a boy I was interested in, was always, without exception..."does he have good manners?" It said everything she wanted to know about him initially, you see. She asked this question before..."what's his name?", "what does he do?" , etc. Upon meeting him...if he displayed proper manners, she ate from his hand....and if he displayed a lack thereof, there was no hope that she would ever, ever approve of him, 'till the end of time.
Those protocols, for the most part, (The only exception is the use of "Miss Sue" for example, with a non-related adult woman.)are pure Emily Post and STILL applied up north until the 70's.
The rudeness is found in all settings. I especially hate strangers & salespeople calling on the phone and addressing me by my 1st name, as if we are friends.
Mercifully at the kids' school the policy is to addressa all adults as Mr, Mrs, Ms or Miss, including teachers to parents & vice versa. Keeps it professional.
The use of "sir" is strange to my ears, sounds militaristic or smacks of a master slave relationship... that is the connotation up here. I know that is not how it is meant. That will take some getting used to!
My mother is always asking about manners, too, and when she experiences bad manners she refers in a general sense to "the decline" of civilizaiton!
The use of "sir" is strange to my ears, sounds militaristic or smacks of a master slave relationship... that is the connotation up here. I know that is not how it is meant. That will take some getting used to!
That's mind blowing to me...just ludicrous & hideous to me. Wow! Maybe it's true that as southerners we are a bit antiquated in practicing "Emily Post" etiquette, but it's based on just that... manners & respect... & certainly not racially biased.
You are right in your understanding that it's definately not how it is meant here. My prior post's comments transcend race...for the record, I'm white. Without a moment's hesitation, my white husband would always address a black man, who was his elder, most respectfully as "Sir" or "Mr."...as would I, and my daughter.
Given your feedback & mine, no wonder y'all come here believing we're so backwards & ignorant & we perceive you as so rude & uncouth...it's all these longtime ingrained & preconcieved notions put into our heads. It's a pity really.
I teach my daughter (she's 5), as I was taught, to refer to family friends, by their first name "Miss Maggie & Mr. Robert". Those who are authority figures, like teachers, or any adult that is not a close friend, is referred to by their last name "Mrs. Taylor & Mr. Taylor", as a greater sign of respect. Incidentally, these rules don't just apply to children. I'm 37 & I use exactly the same protocol.
These unspoken rules are about simply about having good manners & showing respect for your elders....If the neighbor's son & daughter are 18 or older, then they are to be called "Miss Sarah & Mr. Matt" by my daughter, but Sarah & Matt, by myself. If the neighbor's children are 10, they're called just Sarah & Matt, by myself & my daughter.
On a parallel scale, family members are Aunt Josie & Uncle Tom, never Josie & Tom....that protocol is skipped for cousins...so there is no Cousin Josie....just Josie, by all.
If my daughter needs to address someone we don't know, like a cashier or clerk, then it's... M'am or Sir, how much is this item? As they are surely older than her. For me, it's slightly different: If I need to similarly address them...it's the same, if they are older than I...M'am or Sir, how much is this item? ... but, if they are younger than I...a new protocol: I'm female. If I address a younger female clerk, then I'd say...Miss, how much is this item?....but because I'm female, I'd not be expected to address a younger male similarly, as Sir. I'd just say...excuse me, how much is this item?
Note that in the last examples above, I'd use good manners & have enough respect, in each instance to acknowledge the person I'm speaking, versus just rudely demanding of them "how much is this item?"--I'd, of course, always respond with "thank you" & not just walk off, after being given a response. Using good manners, & showing respect, are truly core values for a southerner & they are taught to children from the time they are tots. Not doing would not only be considered rude, but totally uncouth. I think this is truly a huge reason that those who are not southern (I hate to throw the "Y" word in again) are seen negatively by us the moment they open their mouths. And in all fairness, I'd conversely say it's very, very true that it's a highly recognizable & immediate way we size each other up...it's an outward badge of social standing even amongst ourselves.
I agree. I grew up learning the same thing and still say these things today.
That's mind blowing to me...just ludicrous & hideous to me. Wow! Maybe it's true that as southerners we are a bit antiquated in practicing "Emily Post" etiquette, but it's based on just that... manners & respect... & certainly not racially biased.
You are right in your understanding that it's definately not how it is meant here. My prior post's comments transcend race...for the record, I'm white. Without a moment's hesitation, my white husband would always address a black man, who was his elder, most respectfully as "Sir" or "Mr."...as would I, and my daughter.
Given your feedback & mine, no wonder y'all come here believing we're so backwards & ignorant & we perceive you as so rude & uncouth...it's all these longtime ingrained & preconcieved notions put into our heads. It's a pity really.
Well, I am putting it out there so you can understand the northern *****pective, or at least my understanding of it.
As I have posted elsewhere I think your race relations are MUCH better than ours. When I read that line about you saying "Sir" to a black man I was blown away. I have never seen that happen here. Ever.
BTW, there ARE manners here, and we get angry when we are disrespected, too. For example, if someone does not say thank you, if you are angry enough you can say, "you are welcome"... to show their lapse.... or of course you can just roll your eyes & let it slide!
I hope that as a culture you hang on to you rmanners, don't let yourself be bullied into thinking that manners are unsophisticated. The ramifications are horoendous, believe, me!
I will say this though, my sisters are a lot older than I am and I was an aunt by the time I was six. I don't recall any of my nieces and nephews calling me aunt anything. They always used my first name. Now as I am 54, the grandchildren of my mother ended with my last child and the great grandchildren started with my sister's daughter four months later. Then a generation down, when I am having grand children now, my sisters are having great grand children. There is only two months difference in my first grandchild and my sister's first great grand child.
What goes on within the family is sooo different from having strangers, salesmen, nurses & 5 year old strangers address you as if you are kin!
I for one will be glad to be rid of toddlers screaming at me by my first name...
Miss NYer will be a vast improvement!
I have my kids call adults Miss or Mrs but they stand out for doing so, & not always in a ggod way, it sounds still & formal here, but I do not like the sound of kidsaddressing adults as peers.
"What goes on within the family is sooo different from having strangers, salesmen, nurses & 5 year old strangers address you as if you are kin!"
I don't even address people that are younger than I am by their first name if they are a teacher, doctor, nurse, minister or what have you unless I have been told by them to call them by their first names or they grew up with my children and I knew them as children. Case in point here. When I was in the 6th grade, I had this very primp and proper teacher. Now mind you, she taught me and my sister and had known me since I was about 8 or so. When I graduated from nursing school and was working in the local nursing home, I had her sister as a patient. She never referred to me by my first name. It was Mrs. Mooring as I was then.
My uncle, who is an elderly & proper gentleman, had such a bad time of it during a recent hospitalization. The staff called him honey & dear, & by his first name, and he was Visibly uncomfortable. I wish they would have first asked, "Is it alright for me to call you Tom or do you prefer Mr. Smith?"
It is so simple to be polite, isn't it?!
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...My mom the oldest of seven children & her youngest sibling was only 5 years older than me..I never called him Uncle Ted, just Ted... but all the other older aunts/uncles were always called Aunt Sue/Uncle Bob, etc.
at me by my first name...
