What is going on with the NCDOT??? (Charlotte, Raleigh: cul-de-sac, appointed)
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I'm not sure if anyone has noticed, but the NCDOT has recently been introducing "superstreets" and other new design standards to many main thoroughfares throughout NC. Am I the only one who feels like this is a step in the wrong direction?
To those unfamiliar with superstreets, these are primarily four (or more)-lane roads that carry lots of regional traffic. Most intersections are reconstructed to eliminate left turns, and u-turns are constructed near major intersections to help traffic get around.
I realize that superstreets do help improve the flow of traffic, and reduce the number of accidents due to the fewer number of points of conflict. Those are the only good things that can be attributed to superstreets, however. The fact is, they perpetuate a car-based lifestyle that in turn promotes even more sprawl because of their car-centric design. Travel lanes are very wide, which encourages higher driving speeds. Bike lanes (which are being included in more and more new road projects) are worthless because no bicyclist is comfortable riding right next to high speed traffic. Sidewalks are also essentially useless because it is too far to walk to and from most places of interest, not to mentioned they are built too close to the superstreets with no barriers (trees, parked cars, etc) to allow pedestrians to walk comfortably. Another unrealized consequence of superstreets is maintenance and the tax base; while they generate new development shortly after completion, the more development that is constructed along the road is all car based, and while a new tax base is established due to new neighborhoods and plazas, it is a tax base that cannot grow in a meaningful way due to its suburban nature. This in turn puts more and more cars on the road, which eventually becomes congested again to the point that it needs to be widened at a considerable cost, not to mention ongoing repairs needed due to the continually increasing number of cars on the road.
Another new design standard I have noticed is basically every new interchange constructed. Exit ramps are exceedingly wide, and the physical design of new interchanges is taking up inordinate amounts of space. Look at the size of the exit ramps/interchanges on older restricted-access roads such as NC 147, I-277, etc and compare them to new interchanges along I-540, I-485, etc. Whereas older interchanges could be crammed into tight areas, and exit ramps were allowed to feature sharp and abrupt turns, new ones require ample amounts of space (existing property/buildings be damned) and most be able to flow freely with nothing remotely unexpected along the way.
The numbers on paper show that superstreets, huge interchanges, and other features like that are safer. ON PAPER. But there is something to be said about narrower roads, on-street parking, abrupt turns, and other unexpected features that do not provide a false sense of security that so many new roads do. There is a time and place for restricted-access roads such as interstates to provide easy travel between cities, but superstreets and other car-centric features do not belong in our cities.
If you expect a republican controlled state that prides itself on low taxes and a business friendly environment to de-emphasize the role of the automobile and emphasize new urbanist, pedestrian friendly concepts, then I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed.
If you expect a republican controlled state that prides itself on low taxes and a business friendly environment to de-emphasize the role of the automobile and emphasize new urbanist, pedestrian friendly concepts, then I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed.
I am pretty conservative myself (and a car guy), but I fully believe that many people drive just because their lives are centered around it, not because they actually enjoy driving. Just throwing random bike lanes and sidewalks here and there does nothing to alleviate traffic or offer people a choice. Nobody bikes or walks anywhere unless they feel safe biking/walking and there's somewhere worth going to.
Exit ramps are exceedingly wide, and the physical design of new interchanges is taking up inordinate amounts of space...Whereas older interchanges could be crammed into tight areas, and exit ramps were allowed to feature sharp and abrupt turns, new ones require ample amounts of space
My guess is different outlooks on the future. Older interchanges were likely built to handle normal growth, which would be expected for a largely rural and agrarian state with a fair climate and countless small towns. New interchanges are now built to handle explosive growth as the Piedmont reinvents itself as a tech, medicine and finance hub. With such expectations it's cheaper to acquire all the forecast land needs at once rather than in several small projects, and to simply create larger highways with room to grow.
Some folks say Raleigh and Charlotte will join up with the northeast megalopolis in the coming decades. NCDOT has to build to accommodate the explosive, uncontrolled growth as folks from the North pour into our state.
Last edited by Backwoods Baptist; 01-31-2019 at 03:37 PM..
I am pretty conservative myself (and a car guy), but I fully believe that many people drive just because their lives are centered around it, not because they actually enjoy driving. Just throwing random bike lanes and sidewalks here and there does nothing to alleviate traffic or offer people a choice. Nobody bikes or walks anywhere unless they feel safe biking/walking and there's somewhere worth going to.
This is such a big and complex problem. The super streets, like the one in the video in Holly Springs, are largely being built in areas that aren't very walkable from the start. Cookie-cutter tract houses on a cul-de-sac with a single entrance from the main road and a wall around the community don't really have a hope of being walkable for daily life.
I personally am ok with areas of a metro that want to promote urban living, focus on doing that well. The outer suburban areas (like Holly Springs) will largely end up car dependent as residents who move there are often attracted to that type of development. They want a big cookie cutter house far away from urban walkable life - otherwise they wouldn't move there.
My guess is different outlooks on the future. Older interchanges were likely built to handle normal growth, which would be expected for a largely rural and agrarian state with a fair climate and countless small towns. New interchanges are now built to handle explosive growth as the Piedmont reinvents itself as a tech, medicine and finance hub. With such expectations it's cheaper to acquire all the forecast land needs at once rather than in several small projects, and to simply create larger highways with room to grow.
Some folks say Raleigh and Charlotte will join up with the northeast megalopolis in the coming decades. NCDOT has to build to accommodate the explosive, uncontrolled growth as folks from the North pour into our state.
That’s a terrible vision for the future, hardly any rural land would be left . Luckily those are 50+ year visions which are about as accurate as a 30 day weather forecast. I’m not a big fan of all this sprawl but to many on here that’s desirable development over the alternative of forestland unused and farmland.
Us-401 is another super street.. goes through a truly rural area of farmland , hardly much traffic and they plan on expanding it to louisburg which is just silly I drive through there a lot and don’t see the demand. What next my driveway a 4 lane highway?
From what I see it looks like NCDOT is prioritizing safety as well as looking at cost when it comes to these designs. Super streets are much safer due to eliminating the left turns and cheaper than making major routes into full blown freeways. Thereby also helping with traffic flow.
As for the larger interchanges with longer ramps I’m all for it. The tight, outdated interchanges on older highways like 277 in Charlotte are extremely dangerous with very short merging and weaving distances. They’re designed for cities of around 250K people. I’ll be glad when they’re finally removed and replaced. From the plans I’ve seen on their website it looks like NCDOT plans to fix those interchanges by reducing the total number of exits to allow for more room to safely merge and for traffic to queue on the ramps.
Us-401 is another super street.. goes through a truly rural area of farmland , hardly much traffic and they plan on expanding it to louisburg which is just silly I drive through there a lot and don’t see the demand. What next my driveway a 4 lane highway?
We drive there quite a bit...I suspect this is preparation for the Louisburg area to eventually be considered a Raleigh suburb. I see the new 401/98 interchange will be set up this way as well. They really need to widen 98 from 401 west to Wake Forest - I believe that is the plan, but I'd hate to buy in the expensive new subdivisions off 98 and have to deal with 98 in its current form.
I just experienced a bunch of these on US 17 in Brunswick County. I don't know how well they measure when it comes to efficiency, but it has to be safer. I remember going down there years ago and witnessing suicidal attempts to turn across four lanes and a median as traffic is going both directions at 60+ mph while also dodging other traffic trying to cross or turn. I'm sure they had some nasty wrecks over the years.
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