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I can't speak for the Triad but I do know more than a thing or two about the Triangle. And, according to the the criteria that the Census Bureau says that they use, I cannot find a single argument for splitting the Triangle into two metro areas. Raleigh and Durham are so co-dependent on each other it's not even funny. People cross the county lines daily for work, school, shopping, entertainment, etc. Tons of Wake Co. residents work on the Durham side of RTP and vice versa. In addition to parts of Raleigh in Durham Co. and parts of Durham in Wake Co., remember that Cary has expanded into Chatham Co. (which is part of the Durham metro). It just doesn't make any sense at all.
Regarding the whole Charlotte/Triangle battle over whose "fill in the blank" is bigger.....the Triangle has always been a different sort of metro area. It's not a metro area built around a single city. And, while it's doubtful that Raleigh will match Charlotte's city population somewhere down the road because its city limits are more hemmed in by significantly sized suburbs in the same county, it's not unrealistic to expect the Triangle to surpass the Charlotte metro in the next decade or so. Just look at the last decade between Mecklenburg and Wake Counties. In the begining of the decade, Wake's population trailed Mecklenburgs by 4 years. Now, Wake is trailing Mecklenburg by less than a year. Just take a look at the following data from the US Census website. The writing is on the walls:
Mecklenburg:
2000 - 700,794
2001 - 721,163
2002 - 738,106
2003 -755,977
2004 - 755,977
2005 - 802,400
2006 - 835,328
2007 - 867,067
Wake:
2000 - 633,640
2001 - 659,506
2002 - 681,212
2003 - 702,565
2004 - 724,746
2005 - 755,848
2006 - 794,129
2007 - 832,970
As the Triangle continues to assert its influence over central NC and the Census Bureau comes to its senses, the Triangle will finally get counted realistically. Remember, it's not all about the "official" counts that establish a city's or metro's identity. If that were the case, then Jacksonville Florida would be a bigger deal than it is. After all, it is the largest city in Florida and more populated than Charlotte. But, let's be real, nobody cares besides statisticians and people who live in Jacksonville.
So, Triangle folks, don't fret and don't get caught up in Charlotte's ego games. After all, they have been chasing Atlanta for years. They are now "bigger" than Atlanta, but are they really?
I can't speak for the Triad but I do know more than a thing or two about the Triangle. And, according to the the criteria that the Census Bureau says that they use, I cannot find a single argument for splitting the Triangle into two metro areas. Raleigh and Durham are so co-dependent on each other it's not even funny. People cross the county lines daily for work, school, shopping, entertainment, etc. Tons of Wake Co. residents work on the Durham side of RTP and vice versa. In addition to parts of Raleigh in Durham Co. and parts of Durham in Wake Co., remember that Cary has expanded into Chatham Co. (which is part of the Durham metro). It just doesn't make any sense at all.
Regarding the whole Charlotte/Triangle battle over whose "fill in the blank" is bigger.....the Triangle has always been a different sort of metro area. It's not a metro area built around a single city. And, while it's doubtful that Raleigh will match Charlotte's city population somewhere down the road because its city limits are more hemmed in by significantly sized suburbs in the same county, it's not unrealistic to expect the Triangle to surpass the Charlotte metro in the next decade or so. Just look at the last decade between Mecklenburg and Wake Counties. In the begining of the decade, Wake's population trailed Mecklenburgs by 4 years. Now, Wake is trailing Mecklenburg by less than a year. Just take a look at the following data from the US Census website. The writing is on the walls:
Mecklenburg:
2000 - 700,794
2001 - 721,163
2002 - 738,106
2003 -755,977
2004 - 755,977
2005 - 802,400
2006 - 835,328
2007 - 867,067
Wake:
2000 - 633,640
2001 - 659,506
2002 - 681,212
2003 - 702,565
2004 - 724,746
2005 - 755,848
2006 - 794,129
2007 - 832,970
As the Triangle continues to assert its influence over central NC and the Census Bureau comes to its senses, the Triangle will finally get counted realistically. Remember, it's not all about the "official" counts that establish a city's or metro's identity. If that were the case, then Jacksonville Florida would be a bigger deal than it is. After all, it is the largest city in Florida and more populated than Charlotte. But, let's be real, nobody cares besides statisticians and people who live in Jacksonville.
So, Triangle folks, don't fret and don't get caught up in Charlotte's ego games. After all, they have been chasing Atlanta for years. They are now "bigger" than Atlanta, but are they really?
Just like Raleigh wants to chase Charlotte. I am not putting Raleigh down...but out of all your post...you have never said anything nice about Charlotte. I can't believe you are from South Florida and think Raleigh is the bomb. I don't know the exact figures...only going off of Wikipedia.com.
I lived in Raleigh for years and moved to Charlotte from North Raleigh.
And by the way....Wake County is 1 1/2 times the size of Mecklenburg in area...so taking that in effect....we are still much larger. Mecklkenburg is so populated that there really isn't much land left....so ALOT of people are moving to neighboring counties & SC (only 10miles from Uptown). Charlotte is much closer to Atlanta than Raleigh will ever be. Raleigh will ALWAYS be #2nd in NC....sorry about that.
Last edited by the 7 oh 4; 04-02-2009 at 07:48 AM..
Just like Raleigh wants to chase Charlotte. I am not putting Raleigh down...but out of all your post...you have never said anything nice about Charlotte. I can't believe you are from South Florida and think Raleigh is the bomb. I don't know the exact figures...only going off of Wikipedia.com.
I lived in Raleigh for years and moved to Charlotte from North Raleigh.
And by the way....Wake County is 1 1/2 times the size of Mecklenburg in area...so taking that in effect....we are still much larger. Mecklkenburg is so populated that there really isn't much land left....so ALOT of people are moving to neighboring counties & SC (only 10miles from Uptown). Charlotte is much closer to Atlanta than Raleigh will ever be. Raleigh will ALWAYS be #2nd in NC....sorry about that.
He never says nice things about Charlotte, yet you're always saying nice things about Raleigh? Also, if you're getting your sources off of Wikipedia that says alot. You should never site something from Wikipedia and use it as truth.
Oh and Raleigh is SOOO much closer to Charlotte in size that Charlotte is to Atlanta. The arguments have been made, but still you chose to agnore them. The Charlotte "region" is slightly bigger than Raleigh "region" and the Atlanta Region is almost 3 times the size of Charlotte. Stop twisting the facts.
Ladies and gentleman, this is not about Charlotte vs Raleigh. While this is a nice topic to discuss please not in this thread. This is pro-NC thread and how the U.S. Census is cheating our two other major metro areas of statuses they rightly deserve.
Ladies and gentleman, this is not about Charlotte vs Raleigh. While this is a nice topic to discuss please not in this thread. This is pro-NC thread and how the U.S. Census is cheating our two other major metro areas of statuses they rightly deserve.
I concur.
I just want our metro areas stitched back together. It will definitely help this area look more appealing on paper for businesses and individuals. Can you just imagine when a major business looks at the size of a market? We'll be hitting the magical 2 million mark soon, and no one besides the people who live here would ever know the full story.
The Triad area is another important area for NC. It is big on aviation, an industry the other two areas are not really big on. I think what the Piedmont Crescent needs to do is stop competeing with each other and promote each others strong points. I wonder what sense it made for the Census peeps to split them up. It really doesn't make any sense.
The Triad area is another important area for NC. It is big on aviation, an industry the other two areas are not really big on. I think what the Piedmont Crescent needs to do is stop competeing with each other and promote each others strong points. I wonder what sense it made for the Census peeps to split them up. It really doesn't make any sense.
Exactly. I would like to know if anyone could give some info on how we could correct this problem. What are the exact avenues to take action?
BTW. The Triad is almost the same size as the Triangle and Charlotte area.
Interestingly enough, it always seems that it is those who live in the bigger city (in this case, Raleigh) who are more concerned with their region reverting to the old metro designation. I guess no one ever thought how Durham being its own MSA might be beneficial for that city (particularly as it regards funding from the feds), as it shows that Durham has enough economic gravity to be its own MSA and isn't totally reliant on Raleigh for everything. At the same time, the CSA (combined statistical area) designation demonstrates the interdependence that exists within the region (for the Triangle, that's Raleigh-Durham-Cary. For the Triad, it's Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point). Personally, I think the two designations are the best way to demonstrate the complex economic relationships that exist in multinodal metropolitan regions like the Triangle and the Triad.
And if it's that big of a deal to leaders in the region, they can always lobby the OMB/Census Bureau to be recombined into one MSA again.
Also let it be made known that Lancaster County, SC was once part of the Charlotte MSA, but was spun off into its own micropolitan statistical area. I know that's not a lot of people, but I thought I'd share that to dispel the notion that somehow the Census Bureau is out to get the Triangle and Triad. Furthermore, several other former MSAs were broken up, including the Upstate of SC (Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson) and more notably the Bay Area (San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose). The Bureau doesn't do all of this arbitrarily; there are mathematical formulas that are employed which are based on commuting patterns. So if you're going to disagree about anything, it should be the methodology, not the results.
Last edited by Akhenaton06; 04-04-2009 at 10:38 PM..
Interestingly enough, it always seems that it is those who live in the bigger city (in this case, Raleigh) who are more concerned with their region reverting to the old metro designation. I guess no one ever thought how Durham being its own MSA might be beneficial for that city (particularly as it regards funding from the feds), as it shows that Durham has enough economic gravity to be its own MSA and isn't totally reliant on Raleigh for everything. At the same time, the CSA (combined statistical area) designation demonstrates the interdependence that exists within the region (for the Triangle, that's Raleigh-Durham-Cary. For the Triad, it's Greensboro-Winston-Salem-High Point). Personally, I think the two designations are the best way to demonstrate the complex economic relationships that exist in multinodal metropolitan regions like the Triangle and the Triad.
And if it's that big of a deal to leaders in the region, they can always lobby the OMB/Census Bureau to be recombined into one MSA again.
Also let it be made known that Lancaster County, SC was once part of the Charlotte MSA, but was spun off into its own micropolitan statistical area. I know that's not a lot of people, but I thought I'd share that to dispel the notion that somehow the Census Bureau is out to get the Triangle and Triad. Furthermore, several other former MSAs were broken up, including the Upstate of SC (Greenville-Spartanburg-Anderson) and more notably the Bay Area (San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose). The Bureau doesn't do all of this arbitrarily; there are mathematical formulas that are employed which are based on commuting patterns. So if you're going to disagree about anything, it should be the methodology, not the results.
I think the Feds publish the methodology used for establishing or modifying MSA in the Federal Register for public comment prior to implementation.
First, the Census Bureau doesn't define metropolitan areas, the Office of Management and Budget does. The Census Bureau participates and provides the data that they're based on, but OMB should get the credit and the blame.
Second, metropolitan areas are defined based on a criteria that are consistently applied to all areas. Generally metropolitan areas consist on a county or counties containing a large urban area (central counties) plus additional counties that have high commuting rates to the central county (outlying counties). Adjacent areas merge if there is sufficient commuting between them.
Thus Concord, Gastonia, and Rock Hill merge with Charlotte because of strong commuting from those areas into Mecklenburg County. Greensboro, Winston-Salem, and Burlington and Raleigh-Cary and Durham-Chapel Hill don't merge because they don't meet the commuting standards.
July 1 2008 population estimates of Metropolitan Statistical Areas:
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