where in ND is cheap to find rentals? (prices, housing)

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by thealfa

The tradesmen you speak of, are they in North Dakota?

Not in Williston or Watford, I'll say.

Originally Posted by thealfa

If their family (wife and kids) get the perk of a large apartment (for free?) then I'm guessing they are in the higher ranking title (a driller), ...

Right. Even in the early days, these positions wouldn't have been filled by someone with no experience, but trainable.

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by fourwinds

There's no difference between man camps and motels. Depends on the cleaning crew and the clientele.

Right, but I'm going to assume ( maybe not fairly ) that a large enough percentage of the clientele have questionable hygiene where "large enough" varies with your likelihood of getting a contaminated place.

We're not talking about the cleaning standards of the Hampton Inn in Williston. ( I paid $280/night when I was looking ... )

Originally Posted by fourwinds

Workers often choose to live in Sturgis, Belle Fourche, or Rapid City. That's why those towns are growing. Call the Chamber of Commerces to check if you don't believe it.

What a nice life! You go to make some money and your 'overhead' eats most of it up.

They think they are saving money by doing all that traveling, but they could just settle for a smaller place.

It really sux that the economy has degraded so much that people have become desperate enough to live like that.

[fourwinds]

Originally Posted by thealfa

interesting how all these cities are in SD, not ND, as if there's no other locations in ND that is not an oilfield?

There are places all over the West that house ND oil workers when they are off.

A brother-in-law lives in Denver. People commute to W Montana all the time (Amtrak is full) because places like Missoula and Kalispell have no jobs. People commute from Wisconsin and Minnesota often because their wives children don't want to move. Same for Fargo, Grand Forks, Jamestown, Bismarck and a tons of small ND towns.

SD people originally from there naturally don't want to move. SD is popular for people with housing needs from south of the N Dakota boarder because the Black Hills is warmer and more scenic, cheap housing, have decent schools, and no income tax.

There's plenty of people that commute from Phoenix on Allegiant. Cheap housing and warm/hot.

[thealfa]

couldn't these constant travelers gets free fuel since they work in the oilfields? From what I've heard the perks of working in the Middle Eastern oil companies are just massive. Like free luxury housing, cars, food, and the gasoline is like pennies. You get to live like a king rather than in a freezing rat hole. I guess they do things differently over there. Curious since there are oil production in the U.S. why hasn't the gas prices ever come down? I was told even in North Dakota the gas prices are high, even in Texas!

Originally Posted by IDtheftV

Right, but I'm going to assume ( maybe not fairly ) that a large enough percentage of the clientele have questionable hygiene where "large enough" varies with your likelihood of getting a contaminated place.

We're not talking about the cleaning standards of the Hampton Inn in Williston. ( I paid $280/night when I was looking ... )

What a nice life! You go to make some money and your 'overhead' eats most of it up.

They think they are saving money by doing all that traveling, but they could just settle for a smaller place.

It really sux that the economy has degraded so much that people have become desperate enough to live like that.

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by thealfa

why hasn't the gas prices ever come down?

How do you know that the price wouldn't be higher without the new ND production?

As long as there are people willing to pay more than you for gasoline or whatever, the "price" will keep going up.

I keep a 1962 quarter on my desk. Back in 1962 that would have purchased a gallon of gasoline. Give-or-take - it STILL will purchase a gallon of gasoline.

Back in 1962, you could buy a full breakfast with coffee and a donut for a few quarters and a couple of dimes. Pocket change used to be worth something and not just tossed in a jar.

The "price" didn't go up, the dollar went down. It's from living beyond our means.

It will get worse and one day you'll be saying that you remember when gasoline was less than $10/gallon.

Originally Posted by thealfa

I was told even in North Dakota the gas prices are high, even in Texas!

Gasoline doesn't cost all that much to transport it to places that don't produce oil. Having rigs in your backyard doesn't and shouldn't make any difference to the price.

[thealfa]

How does one "live beyond their means"? Credit cards?

People do not have a choice but to pay the price of what is set as "retail". If I had a choice gasoline should cost pennies. If people had a choice they would agree with me that it should cost pennies. Maybe if gasoline was that cheap people would still be "living beyond their means"?

I would think transporting gasoline in the middle of nowhere far from the oil rigs would cost money due to trucks hauling it. It would be a different story I'm sure if these were transported through nationwide pipes. Then truck drivers won't have jobs if everything was automated like I was describing.

I think the reason why in the middle east gasoline is cheaper is because it is produced in their backyards. Why can't it be the same in the U.S. is what I was getting at.

[thealfa]

Back to topic; would Bismarck be another option to get my foot into the western ND territory? Bismarck would be the closest big ND city to the Bakken. Right? It's only 3.5 hours from Williston and less than 3 hours from Watford City and only 1.5 hours from Dickinson and Minot as well. I'm not sure Minot can be considered as part of western ND, I think it's more central. Does Minot have oil activity?

Is Bismarck cheaper than Fargo or what? I think Fargo is a bit far away from the Bakken to even consider living in. Bismarck might have potential. Maybe even some eastern Montana area, which I have no knowledge of. Or go north, Canada?

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by thealfa

How does one "live beyond their means"? Credit cards?

That's one way.

I meant as a nation, we borrow from other countries so we can consume. Over time, this has led to the value of the dollar going down. The value of gasoline has not really increased since 1962 ( the date of my quarter mentioned above ). The price has. Back in 1962, one was considered to have "made it" if they made $10k per year ( A Ten-Thousand-Dollar-Man ). In the 80's it was someone who made "Six Figures."

Originally Posted by thealfa

If I had a choice gasoline should cost pennies.

If a frog had wings ...

So if the price was legislated by law to be only 3-cents per gallon, would you be willing to work for, say, 30-cents per hour ( by law )?

You don't have a choice. There is only so much gasoline and other people are willing to pay more than pennies to get it. Therefore, if you want some, you have to pay. It's not a conspiracy. There is an open market for gasoline that is traded minute-by-minute. Then national and state governments add their taxes to it and retailers mark it up by a few cents and that's what you pay.

Of course, we are talking about gasoline, not oil. You can buy oil for less than half of what it's worth in Williston. The producer price is way below world prices - even though Bakken oil is, by far, the best in the world.

Originally Posted by thealfa

If people had a choice they would agree with me that it should cost pennies.

No. Then they would not have any gasoline to buy. I work in the oil business. I'm many levels away from the driller, but if gasoline was somehow forced to be pennies by law then everyone would have to go home and find another line of work.

Wishing for stuff like that is unproductive. I wish my 12-year old Macallan Single Malt only cost me a dollar a bottle. The distillers in Scotland would like me to kiss their wa-too-sies.

Originally Posted by thealfa

I would think transporting gasoline in the middle of nowhere far from the oil rigs would cost money ...

Yeah, well duh. My original point is that it isn't a significant factor in the price compared to, say cracking. Do you know what that is? My guess is no - since you seem to think that if oil is oozing up then it's nothing to get it to the tank of your vehicle.

Have you noticed that while rent is 3x the price in Williston vs Fargo, the price of gasoline is not significantly different?

Originally Posted by thealfa

I think the reason why in the middle east gasoline is cheaper is because it is produced in their backyards. Why can't it be the same in the U.S. is what I was getting at.

Then you would be thinking wrong since the price of gasoline and other distillates is subsidized by those governments ( not just in the Middle East, BTW ).

Ironically, much of what OPEC consumes in gasoline is manufactured in developed countries and exported back to them. In the US, thousands of jobs exist because Venezuela is too stupid to build refineries, so they export their raw, heavy crude which we use to manufacture gasoline that gets shipped back to them. They, in turn buy it from us at market prices - a little over $3/gallon and they lose money on each and every gallon selling it back to their citizens for about 6 cents a gallon.

Hey, I have an idea; why don't you move there instead of Bismarck? The price is right for you. Too bad the benefits of free markets will be left here, in the US.

This is one reason you are paying more. Their consumption is way higher than it would be otherwise which is eating into the amount they are able to export to us ( on credit ) which raises the price to you at the pump.

As far as I'm concerned, we should slap enough of a tax on gasoline that we would no longer import any petroleum at all. If it takes $5/gallon then so be it. Then our government can take that money and spend it on the roads like they are supposed to. No more potholes.

I guess my wish for a $5/gallon tax is about as important as your wish for it to be "pennies" though, huh? We're both a couple of idiots. This difference is that I know the difference between oil and gasoline and what stuff is really worth.

Originally Posted by thealfa

Back to topic; would Bismarck be another option to get my foot into the western ND territory?

No.

Originally Posted by thealfa

Bismarck would be the closest big ND city to the Bakken. Right?

Wrong. By ND standards, Minot is "big" and it's literally IN the Bakken.

Originally Posted by thealfa

Bismarck ... It's only 3.5 hours from Williston and less than 3 hours from Watford City and only 1.5 hours from Dickinson and Minot as well.

What you have just typed are good reasons why you would not gain any advantage by living in Bismarck vs. living in Denver. You can't commute, so who cares?

Move to Williston and suck-it-up by paying what stuff is worth. Then I hope you can find a job that pays you $10,000/month and you can stop being bothered by stuff like market prices for gasoline and rent.

[JimTownDude]

There aren't many, if any, places left in ND with cheap rent.

[thealfa]

ok so the only realistic option then is get in the man camps since it's free, and suck it up?