Environmental Impact of Drilling (Allentown, Honesdale: schools, colleges, earthquake)

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by fisheye

rugerjitsu,

Why are you getting angry (red) trying to educate us? We are just searching for answers on possible problems?

As long as you have all the answers: How many bridges have had reduced weight limits in this shale drilling area? Are there ways around these bridges? Is the industry willing to repair any damage they do to our infrastructure or environment? Would they be willing to post a bond or have tax taken out in escrow?

The local gas companies around where I live have been tearing roads to pieces into something that looks like it's out of Kazakhstan.

However they have been rebuilding them over time, paid for by the gas companies. That's the deal.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

The local gas companies around where I live have been tearing roads to pieces into something that looks like it's out of Kazakhstan.

However they have been rebuilding them over time, paid for by the gas companies. That's the deal.

wanneroo,

Thanks; but that is and isn’t the problem that I am talking about. In especially the last year; PA brdge inspectors have been reducing the weight limits on many bridges. Here, in Monroe County, they are up to about a dozen bridges that now have lower weight limits (because of their deplorable condition). Many of these are on heavy use secondary roads. There are also other bridges that will be downgraded in the next few years.

I guess what I am getting at is: It gets harder to even have a legal route from a well to the disposal area. This is not only a problem for the drillers; it is a problem for all trucking. In many cases; our State has not even posted the new weight limits. Trucks hauling drilling equipment and trucks hauling waste water are very heavy - that is the name of the game. I am just trying to fit this all into the grand scheme of things.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by fisheye

It kind of reminds me of the old burning slag mountains. After the profit is gone; the companies are sold or go out of business - who is stuck with the tab for cleanup?

Well right now current coal companies, it will be many decades but slowly they are reclaiming these abandoned sites with a tax collected for every ron of coal mined. Pennsylvania stands to receive a lot of these funds as it has so many sites.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by johnqpublic

Want a comparison of ground water contamination? Look at Sandvik Steel and Beloit in Waverly Pa...and that gallonage was a drop in the ocean compared to what the drillers are pumping into the ground!!

What are we comparing here? Different chemicals and different quantities are going to have different levels of toxicity. Sounds to me like your trying to compare a known bad situation to one that is unknown.

I don;t know what it is but you need to know what the threat is, simply because they pumping chemicals into the ground doesn't mean it's going to be harmful.

[johnqpublic]

I don;t know what it is but you need to know what the threat is, simply because they pumping chemicals into the ground doesn't mean it's going to be harmful.


LOL, Im sorry , but when I read that, I pictured George W Bush saying it.

Lets put it this way. would you be willing to take a shot glass of the chemical soup, mix it with a gallon of water and drink it??

Im sorry , but I have a working background in industrial chemistry, and I dont buy it for a moment that the swill they are pumping in and not recovering is not going to be harmful in some way shape or form, in either the short or long term.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by johnqpublic

Lets put it this way. would you be willing to take a shot glass of the chemical soup, mix it with a gallon of water and drink it??

Firstly these chemicals are going to be disbursed into billions if not tillions of gallons of water. Having said that if you can tell me as fact this is going to be harmful to me I'll pass on the drink. You're making assumptions and you can't tell me that.

[johnqpublic]

Ok, a little background on me. I worked for 15 years in the testing labs of several metals industry companies, I worked with the chemicals that are common to the industries, did I work with fracking? , no, but from my knowledge of the industry, let me venture this hypothesis, the slurry they are pumping into the ground consists of solvents, surfactants , and chelating agents, all of which i am very familiar with, , trust me , you dont want them in your water table.. chemicals are measured in PPM, parts per million, Or PPB parts per billion, trust me, when those chemicals are measured in those percentages, you should worry.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by johnqpublic

Ok, a little background on me. I worked for 15 years in the testing labs of several metals industry companies, I worked with the chemicals that are common to the industries, did I work with fracking? , no, but from my knowledge of the industry, let me venture this hypothesis, the slurry they are pumping into the ground consists of solvents, surfactants , and chelating agents, all of which i am very familiar with, , trust me , you dont want them in your water table.. chemicals are measured in PPM, parts per million, Or PPB parts per billion, trust me, when those chemicals are measured in those percentages, you should worry.

johnqpublic,

I just wanted also say that I have worked for 6 years in the chemical industry and have worked a company spill team. I am not any chemist. However; I do have some working knowledge of chemicals and the possible human side effects.

There is one problem that not that many people talk about and that is individual tolerance. That can vary from one subject to another. Take formaldehyde; some people are oblivious, some are irritated and some people will turn blue and almost stop breathing. I saw that happen to twelve of us years ago. We were in an area that had a formaldehyde spill. One woman could not breath and had to be rushed to the hospital. We were all exposed to about the same concentrations. Some of us even went back into the area to assist in the cleanup.

From working a spill team I know that it is extremely hard to predict how exposure will affect anybody. I also know that immediate exposure and reaction cannot predict future reaction (or cancers).

[rugerjitsu]

Originally Posted by fisheye

rugerjitsu,

Why are you getting angry (red) trying to educate us? We are just searching for answers on possible problems?

As long as you have all the answers: How many bridges have had reduced weight limits in this shale drilling area? Are there ways around these bridges? Is the industry willing to repair any damage they do to our infrastructure or environment? Would they be willing to post a bond or have tax taken out in escrow?

hey! i'm hardly angry, and will be first to admit that I don't have all the answers...

i don't know a thing about the bridges, but I do know of at least one company that has been fixing the roads they are traveling on, and also trying to minimized the traveling and moving of rigs during the winter months when most damage is done.

Originally Posted by sp2007

I grew up in that area, that's a load of crap. Most likely your "resident friend" was probably talking about being drunk and lighting up gas in a jug. That's just a ridiculous comment. I am not saying that drilling is good or bad (although I am not sure how a fairly untouched rural area CAN'T be ill effected by drilling but I digress), but the lower south/western part of Susquehanna has fantastic drinking water. I miss it!

she was talking about a jug of water, and lighting it on fire. look, there's methane in many water wells up there, and this methane is being identified prior to drilling.

[johnqpublic]

Rugerjitsu'

I am state certed in hazmat myself, we call the unknowns methyl ethyl death... an interesting aside, smokers are constantly appx 20% to level of carbon monoxide poisoning!!!! supports your stance on individual tolerances!!!