Family Outdoor Activities During Hunting Season(s) (Scranton, Dallas: credit, home)
Northeastern PennsylvaniaScranton, Wilkes-Barre, Pocono area
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Ilona I am an amimal lover and a vegetarian and I understand how you feel.
There are many other people who feel as you do in Nort East PA.
Do not stay in Queens because of that.
There is a Vegetarian Society in Luzerne County where you will find many like minded people. I will say that hunting culture is deeply entrenched in the rural areas of PA so when looking to relocate I would stick closer to the cities if you want to stay away from those areas where you might feel ostrasized because of your views on hunting.
I also want to say that I have met a few very nice hunters while living here. One is painting my house as we speak!
He is actually an animal lover and he and his family eat what he kills. They do not have much money. I have to say that as opposed to the abomination and cruelty involved in factory farming, hunted animals fare far better. I am sure that there are a few intentionally sadistic hunters out there, but they are in the minority. Or at least I hope that they are.
While I will not be going hunting anytime soon I have come to see it as one of the many cultural differences between (my part of) LI and PA.
I agree with you. Like I said, I am not a crazy PETA supporter. I love animals and will fight for animal rights and against animal cruelty. My plan when I move is to become a Wildlife Rehabilitator (apartment living in Queens has so far prevented me from fulfilling that dream). But I have met so many Hunters who have been intentionally cruel to me knowing how I feel. And yes - Factory farming is CRUEL as well. I consider myself a partial Vegetarian (I eat eggs and dairy).
Oh there are many many negatives. I have read all these arguments many many times throughout the years and for each one I can provide a counter argument.
Well list them up..
But I certainly hope you do not include "feelings" on your list - like the psychobabble PETA cartoon books that encourage young kids to stay away from fishing.
Too each their own, I have no problem with those that disapprove of hunting. Being from Queens I doubt very much that you have ever had to deal with animals ruining your flower gardens or eating your saplings, tearing apart your garbage or pooping all over your lawn, dock and boats...
As far as finding a place in the country where hunting is less then here? Good luck with that, its more or less a way of life in the Northeast, whether its NJ, NY or PA.
As far as it not being a sport, you try to shoot a bird from a moving kayak and then tell me its not a sport.... Couldn't help myself.
I am not actually 'from Queens' I live there now. I have absolutely no problem with animals in my backyard, that is actually what I am hoping for. My cousin lives upstate - he feeds all the birds and squirrels and he will take pictures of the wildlife in his backyard. I come from a family of animal lovers who prefer to shoot them with a camera rather than a gun.
And nope - I will never be convinced that this is a sport. A sport is where both sides are equal. You are shooting and killing defenseless animals who are only trying to survive just like all of us. Give them weapons and then you can call it a sport. In the words of the most amazing animal lover RIP Cleveland Amory: Support your right to Arm Bears.
Ilona - first off, if your cousin lives in NY and is dropping corn - he may be breaking the law.
Better be careful a law-abiding hunter does not observe the illegal activity and drop a dime on you.
I love the defenseless animal routine that the anti's spout.
I highly doubt that you have ever witnessed a winter dieoff of deer populations, where weakened animals near death are stuck in an upright position in deep snow as they slowly starve to death. I don't know about you - but I'd rather die a quick death via hunter -vs- the slow painful process of starvation that results from unbalanced animal populations.
Until you can add that to your resume, keep your blind faith in Cleveland Amory.
Overpopulation of wild animals not only decimates the food carrying capacity of the forests, but also spreads disease. Simple facts that the ignorant anti's fail to address.
Last edited by varmintblaster; 11-03-2010 at 10:36 AM..
I will say that hunting culture is deeply entrenched in the rural areas of PA so when looking to relocate I would stick closer to the cities if you want to stay away from those areas where you might feel ostrasized because of your views on hunting.
Sheena - your made a good reply with the exception of the quoted statement.
There is no reason she will feel ostrasized by the hunting culture entrenched in the rural areas of PA - unless she chooses to get in their face and make a spectacle of herself.
I don't think there is any need to attack folks that are opposed to hunting.
Instead I would counter their argument with facts:
1) acquisition/management of Game lands via hunting license revenue and excise taxes,
NO-Sport Hunting is dependent on habitat manipulation. This has an effect on non-game animals whose food and habitat are eliminated. This funding (for habitat manipulation) allocates the excise taxes on guns, ammo, bows & arrows. If hunters truly cared about the environment they'd push to have this money be used entirely for habitat protection and oppose the habitat manipulation that leads to artifical overpopulation.
2) mgmt of the wildlife via sound scientific principles - via hunting license revenue and excise taxes,
WRONG-Scientists agree that the ecosystems existed for thousands of years before humans! Animals thrived and a NATURAL order evolved. Now Hunters are being put in place of natural predators that have been intentionally eliminated. Then you have the Private hunting ranches (and canned hunts) where crops are planted and animals are fed to keep them plump for hunting season. Also - hunting creates the ideal conditions for accelerated reproduction. The drop in poulation leads to competition among survivors resulting in a higher birth rate. It is highly beneficial for Hunters to keep populations of animals up.
3) long standing American traditions going back to our forefathers,
Not necessarily. Much has been written by recent Archeologists and Human Evolution experts on this topic. I have way too many links to list and if you really want them, I'll get them for you.
4) honest, educational high quality time spent in the great outdoors for all types of folks - especially kids,
Yes - kids learning how to shoot guns at a young age. Anyone remember Columbine? I don't know about anyone else, but I always took my daughter to parks and woods to view wildlife not to kill them. I've spent tons and tons of quality time with my daughter (museums, parks, beaches, lakes, theater) and absolutely none of that time involved killing of any kind.
5) Pa Whitetail Backstrap = Ultimate Fillet Mignon...
I would not know - nor do I care to. Eating an animal does not justify the killing. I make an amazing Tofu stew that even my daughter's teen friends love and ask for.
Sheena - your made a good reply with the exception of the quoted statement.
There is no reason she will feel ostrasized by the hunting culture entrenched in the rural areas of PA - unless she chooses to get in their face and make a spectacle of herself.
Ha Ha nah I would not do that. It's not my style. I would just stay out of their way (also because I'd be deeply disturbed by the deaths of animals).
Ilona - first off, if your cousin lives in NY and is dropping corn - he may be breaking the law.
Better be careful a law-abiding hunter does not observe the illegal activity and drop a dime on you.
I love the defenseless animal routine that the anti's spout.
I highly doubt that you have ever witnessed a winter dieoff of deer populations, where weakened animals near death are stuck in an upright position in deep snow as they slowly starve to death. I don't know about you - but I'd rather die a quick death via hunter -vs- the slow painful process of starvation that results from unbalanced animal populations.
Until you can add that to your resume, keep your blind faith in Cleveland Amory.
Overpopulation of wild animals not only decimates the food carrying capacity of the forests, but also spreads disease. Simple facts that the ignorant anti's fail to address.
No-I assure you that he is not breaking any laws where he lives.
Hunted animals most certainly are defenseless - do they fight back? Then by definition they are.
See my previous post responding to your 'facts'. I firmly believe that nature takes care of itself. As I mentioned, it is the hunting revenue that keeps these animals overpopulated. And if natural habitats weren't altered and decimated, then perhaps the animals being hunted will have their natural food source. Sorry - after being on this earth for almost 55 years my views cannot be swayed. I've heard ALL the arguments.
I told you, it's a no win situation. Have a good day.
1) acquisition/management of Game lands via hunting license revenue and excise taxes,
NO-Sport Hunting is dependent on habitat manipulation. This has an effect on non-game animals whose food and habitat are eliminated. This funding (for habitat manipulation) allocates the excise taxes on guns, ammo, bows & arrows. If hunters truly cared about the environment they'd push to have this money be used entirely for habitat protection and oppose the habitat manipulation that leads to artifical overpopulation.
Name me a few non-game animals that have suffered due to habitat manipulation (don't include housing developments that the anti's live in).
I find it comical that you failed to mention habitat creation and protection by private volunteer groups like Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, Pa Turkey Federation, all this on top of the PGC efforts (license and excise tax $).
Darn shame the anti's don't do much in the way of habitat restoration.
Instead they complain about others enjoying the restored habitat.
2) mgmt of the wildlife via sound scientific principles - via hunting license revenue and excise taxes,
WRONG-Scientists agree that the ecosystems existed for thousands of years before humans! Animals thrived and a NATURAL order evolved. Now Hunters are being put in place of natural predators that have been intentionally eliminated.
Here's an idea, if you are so concerned about ecosystems, stop the city folks from moving to rural areas and gobbling up the open lands and forests which destroy the habitat..
Then you have the Private hunting ranches (and canned hunts) where crops are planted and animals are fed to keep them plump for hunting season. Also - hunting creates the ideal conditions for accelerated reproduction. The drop in poulation leads to competition among survivors resulting in a higher birth rate. It is highly beneficial for Hunters to keep
populations of animals up.
I don't participate in canned hunts, but the activities are legal and within the rights of the owners of PRIVATE PROPERTY. Raising food plots is at the discretion of the PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER.
Buy up their land and then turn it over to the Nature Conservancy if their activities upset you so.
3) long standing American traditions going back to our forefathers,
Not necessarily. Much has been written by recent Archeologists and Human Evolution experts on this topic. I have way too many links to list and if you really want them, I'll get them for you.
I have way too many hunting guns in my safe - handed down by my father and grandfather to pay attention to your Human Evolution experts.
4) honest, educational high quality time spent in the great outdoors for all types of folks - especially kids,
Yes - kids learning how to shoot guns at a young age. Anyone remember Columbine? I don't know about anyone else, but I always took my daughter to parks and woods to view wildlife not to kill them. I've spent tons and tons of quality time with my daughter (museums, parks, beaches, lakes, theater) and absolutely none of that time involved killing of any kind.
I was waiting for the Columbine card. You did not disappoint.
If the parents of the Columbine perpetrators paid one lick of attention to their kids it would never have happened.
I've spent tons and tons of quality time with kids, teaching them safety and respect for weapons, nature, and the outdoors. I'd much rather have them get their hands dirty and learn via first-hand experience. Besides, you need a knife to skin/gut a deer, not a book.
5) Pa Whitetail Backstrap = Ultimate Fillet Mignon...
I would not know - nor do I care to. Eating an animal does not justify the killing. I make an amazing Tofu stew that even my daughter's teen friends love and ask for.
I'm happy to hear that. I have a big steak marinating for tonights dinner.
I'm fresh out of backstraps - but that situation will change in a few weeks.
I positively enjoyed reading and responsing to your list of negatives.
And if natural habitats weren't altered and decimated, then perhaps the animals being hunted will have their natural food source. Sorry - after being on this earth for almost 55 years my views cannot be swayed. I've heard ALL the arguments.
I told you, it's a no win situation. Have a good day.
Vast amounts of Game Lands and State Forests remain undisturbed, yet still require sound population management - which includes hunting.
You are terribly misinformed and I have no intention of swaying a delusional anti-hunter.
Gotta go - I'm off to count dead puppies in the PETA dumpster.
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that even my daughter's teen friends love and ask for.
