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Northeastern Pennsylvania Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, Pocono area
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Old 07-30-2012, 07:51 PM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,163,891 times
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This is in direct response to several posts over the last few weeks by various people who have had little to nothing to do with local schools yet bash them.

Yes, there are several schools in failing status in the WBASD. But many people are ignoring WHY. It is not because of incompetent teachers. It is because WBA has a higher than normal proportion of:

1. Transient students
2. Non-English speaking students
3. Special Education students who do NOT get accommodations during testing

People should research things before they speak. Most of the students who do not fall into the above categories do very well in the WBASD. As I mentioned on another thread, the senior class of GAR earned over $1 million dollars in grants and scholarships. A huge majority of the class is going onto post-secondary education at colleges and universities across the country.

As with most schools, WBA is what you make of it. There are very good teachers at Heights, GAR, Kistler and Meyers. But you must look at the whole picture before making faulty, inadequate conclusions about thousands of students and hundreds of educators.

Last edited by Magritte25; 07-30-2012 at 08:05 PM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:24 AM
 
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I mean no disrespect, but the phrase "school is what you make of it" is often the mantra of parents in lousy districts.

City school districts will almost always be behind most suburban school districts. Many reasons for this, including the reasons you named.

The truth of the matter is, if you take an Honor Student from a poor performing district, and compare him/her to an Honor Student from a well performing district, the student from the better district is going to be further along in their studies. This will help them when they go on to higher learning. For the kids going to tech school or getting a job after graduation, it has little impact.

My suggestion, if you have kids, and you are in a crummy district, move. If you can't move, send them to private school or home/cyber school them.

Last edited by Pa Dutch; 07-31-2012 at 12:59 AM..
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:40 AM
 
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I'd like some proof that an Honor Student from WBA would be behind an Honor Student from say Dallas or Crestwood. While I take no umbrage to your assertion that my belief in "school is what you make of it", I feel you are are largely incorrect. I can take a child from WBA, who has moved 3 times in the last year and comes from a non-English speaking home, plop them in Dallas Area School District and they still will not perform well. Have hundreds of students like that in the district? Your test scores are going to drop big time. Likewise, I can take my son, who lives in a stable home, has involved parents, encourages education, etc and he will do well in WBA or Dallas.

I live in a district that has dedicated, good teachers. Why would I move? My children are getting a very good education. The kids who are not getting a good education are the ones who largely fall into one or more of the categories in my original post. Unfortunately, the PTB somehow think cutting funding for low performing schools is going to help those kids who are failing. It makes very little sense to me.
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
I'd like some proof that an Honor Student from WBA would be behind an Honor Student from say Dallas or Crestwood.
The issue is that so many resources and time are being spent on the lower performing students and generally speaking the students of Dallas and Crestwood are simply in a better environment for teaching. The types of students you mention demand more resources to teach them and that has to come from somewhere so it's inevitable that the higher performing students are going to suffer. Overall we have to take a long look at why we are spending the most money on special needs students that ultimately are going to be the least productive members of society.

Having said that I'm not suggesting we throw more money at the problem either. We need a fundamental shift in the way we teach children. I really like the voucher system being proposed by Corbett because it brings accountability to the table. If you're a public school that is perfoming poorly you're going to have to bring your standards up or your students and their funding is going elsewhere. Also not the recent push to get rid of property taxes so the districts are no longer a taxing body, it's a GOP plot.
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Old 07-31-2012, 06:12 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,163,891 times
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Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
The issue is that so many resources and time are being spent on the lower performing students and generally speaking the students of Dallas and Crestwood are simply in a better environment for teaching. The types of students you mention demand more resources to teach them and that has to come from somewhere so it's inevitable that the higher performing students are going to suffer. Overall we have to take a long look at why we are spending the most money on special needs students that ultimately are going to be the least productive members of society.
But that does not prove that a high performing student will be better from a good district vs. a bad district. I think special needs students need education just as much as mainstream or high performing kids. IMO, the ESL kids are an especially easy fix. Have those kids complete a full 1 year immersion in the English language before mainstreaming into the classroom. Special needs students, who require accommodations just to perform their every day school work, should be getting the same accommodations during testing. That is just common sense. The last group - those who come from transient, unstable homes - is the rub. Unless a teacher can motivate these kids to rise above their homes, to be strong enough to fight that current, I don't see how these kids can succeed. None of this is the fault of the schools, mind you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Having said that I'm not suggesting we throw more money at the problem either. We need a fundamental shift in the way we teach children. I really like the voucher system being proposed by Corbett because it brings accountability to the table. If you're a public school that is perfoming poorly you're going to have to bring your standards up or your students and their funding is going elsewhere. Also not the recent push to get rid of property taxes so the districts are no longer a taxing body, it's a GOP plot.

I don't agree with the voucher system. It will simply mean that districts like WBA will continue to fail because the "good students" will go to other districts, leaving the "bad students" in WB. You mentioned accountability. I don't believe teachers lack accountability here. Teachers work their butts off to educate these kids. I know several teachers who were offered chances to switch schools or go to other districts. They said no because they are dedicated to the kids here in WB. Nor do I believe the standards set forth by WBA, which is ultimately dictated by the PA Dept of Education, are lacking. I believe we have had a major shift in the types of families and students in the district. A district can raise their standards all they like - if you don't take care of the issues plaguing the student body, nothing will change.

I've not heard much about the taxing issue. Can you tell me where to find more information about that?
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: NE PA
7,931 posts, read 15,752,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa Dutch View Post
My suggestion, if you have kids, and you are in a crummy district, move. If you can't move, send them to private school or home/cyber school them.
Who says that private school is any better? In fact, around here, private schools, usually Catholic, are subpar compared to public schools unless you're talking about schools like Scranton Prep or Wyoming Seminary, which are extremely high dollar and out of reach for most middle class families. In reality, most area private schools are not academically better, they're just exclusive schools for people who have the money because they don't want their kids going to school with the "unwashed" poor and minorities.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Warren, OH
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There is no simple answer to this. The city of Wilkes-Barre has an increasingly diverse. transient and multi-cultural population. Not all new people who are moving in are underclass, but many are.

Of the people who I have met who have moved in the inner city ( as opposed to West Side, Havover Twp, Plains etc) and I know a few other transplants, those with school age children have chosen independent schools.

One of the problems with Wilkes-Barre and with other medium cities, is the absence of "select" or "magnet schools". People now longer flee NYC and Brooklyn for the suburbs - in fact there is a trend of middle class people returning TO the city! This has been quietly happening for about 25 years.

Neighborhood elementary schools are safe in NYC as long as the neighborhoods are safe. And many are.

For going on 100 years NYC has had select or Magnet Schools. In 8th grade, children take a test and many children who have performed adequately - a B plus average or better, go to a specialty or "public prep" school where they are taught the classics and prepared for college. An example of a Public Prep modeled after private schools would be Brooklyn Latin School. Specialized High Schools include Bronx Science, which as it's name implies, prepares students for colleges devoted to Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics. And this is nothing new. My grandfather was a grad who went on the Columbia College of Engineering. My wife's niece goes there now. My sil would not ever send her daughter to a regular public school. They are decrepit, poorly staffed, and unsafe. The least qualified teachers wind up in the NYC schools with the best ones being drawn to the suburbs. Or they start in the city and when they have some experience they leave,

This is not a matter of prejudice. My niece, with her blonds hair and blue eyes stands out, and is indeed a minority in Bronx Science.

Boston has a similar set up, as I believe Philadelphia does as well. Since I have relatives in Little Rock Arkansas. I happen to know that they do too as do some smaller cities in Florida.

Does anyone think that Wilkes-Barre could support one Select School?

This would be my solution. Which ever of the three schools is in the best condition, and the best location and turn that into a College Prep school. I don't think we could support a School of Art and Design, Science and Math, or specialty schools the way a large city could, but certainly one safe school for students who have taken a test and have maintained an above average (B+) academic record should be available. This is not a newfangled idea. It's been tried and true for over a century.

Does anyone think this idea might work?
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,744 posts, read 4,209,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Yuk View Post
Who says that private school is any better? In fact, around here, private schools, usually Catholic, are subpar compared to public schools unless you're talking about schools like Scranton Prep or Wyoming Seminary, which are extremely high dollar and out of reach for most middle class families. In reality, most area private schools are not academically better, they're just exclusive schools for people who have the money because they don't want their kids going to school with the "unwashed" poor and minorities.
It has nothing to do with that Mr.Yuk. We use Holy Redeemer because it's safe and college oriented.
We aren't even Catholic. In fact I think 1/4 of the students there are not Catholic.

This situation is synergistic - unsafe schools with gang problems attract teachers who can't get a job any where else. Inept teachers, ones right out of college or older ones who don't care. At Holy Redeemer my kids have teachers that also teach at King's and Wilkes. They are not teaching at Redeemer because of the money.

I'm not going to make a point with my kids as former President Jimmy Carter did when he sent his daughter Amy to the DC public schools.

And anyway, my kids don't have the Secret Service following them around.
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Old 07-31-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: NE PA
7,931 posts, read 15,752,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
This situation is synergistic - unsafe schools with gang problems attract teachers who can't get a job any where else. Inept teachers, ones right out of college or older ones who don't care. At Holy Redeemer my kids have teachers that also teach at King's and Wilkes. They are not teaching at Redeemer because of the money.
No, but since Catholic schools pay much less than public schools, they're generally getting the inexperienced right-out-of-college teachers and those who can't get public school jobs. They're teaching at Kings and Wilkes because their full time teaching job doesn't pay all that much.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
32,770 posts, read 35,991,939 times
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True, my brother and SIL sent their kids to Bishop Hoban because they didn't want their kids associating with the neighborhood 'riff raff' They were both teachers in the WBASD.

They both said that they were glad that they didn't get stuck working at Catholic with the lousy pay and (lack of) benefits.
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