Looking for Home in Hemlock Farms (Lima: sales, mortgage, how much)

[sgtgeorge]

Blender,

I don't think it matters what circumstances bring a buyer to look at For Sale By Owner homes. If a particular home is listed FSBO and also with a broker, why wouldn't you try and make a direct deal? The house is the same house whether you get it direct from the seller or through a broker.

Your purchase in Lloyd Harbor (after selling your Manhattan apartment) clearly puts you in a different category than most of us middle-class families and I believe your comments are being based on your financial situation alone. Manhattan and Lloyd Harbor are two of the most expensive places to live in New York and most middle-class families couldn't afford to live there and that is why the relocation rate for young families is so high.

[blender]

Sgtgeorge, you misunderstood me.

I completely agree with you about a fsbo listed home that is also listed with a broker - if you can see it direct, why wouldn't you?

Socioeconomic status has NOTHING to do with it though. Why do most people at ANY income bracket try to sell direct? They're not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. Four out of five times (at least), whether their house is listed for $85K, $150K, $300K or $4.5M they're doing it BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN OVERINFLATED SENSE OF WHAT THEIR HOME IS WORTH AND THEY WANT TO POCKET THE COMMISSION. I've seen this in Hemlock Farms. I've seen this in Wild Acres. I've seen this in Manhattan. I've seen this in Lake Mohawk. I've seen this all over Long Island.

From your socioeconomic perspective, if a "rich" person is not trying to sell direct for a lower price than with a broker, why would a "middle-class" seller who would presumably need proceeds from a sale MORE than a "rich" person do so?

Some clarifications with respect to MY recent real estate transactions:

1) Given the bargainhunters in a declining market I could not afford to try and sell my Hemlock Farms home direct while the market continued to spiral downward. Instead, I paid the brokers fee and undersold. Did I do this because I had an ulterior motive of selling my city apartment and moving to Long Island? NO. I did it because the market was dropping drastically, and since I've sold I've seen VERY FEW PROPERTIES turn over in Hemlock Farms, unless they were turnkey, underpriced, or both.

2) I put my apartment on the market because I now have to work from home a few days a week and given SEC regulations I need a private office, i.e. another bedroom. In Manhattan I could not afford this - frighteningly, by Manhattan standards I would barely be considered "middle class." So when a direct buyer fell into my lap before I listed with brokers at the same time a Lloyd Harbor property fell further in price (the "rich" seller with the new baby wasn't rich enough to carry two mortgages indefinitely) I DID subtract the broker's commission from the ultimate sale price because this buyer would accept a contingency clause (I could cancel the agreement if I couldn't find another place to live) and I could get out quickly without waiting for brokers to put it on mls, advertise, show to unqualified buyers and still wait several months to get my price if that.

3) I DID go through a broker for the Lloyd Harbor house, and not only because it was a broker's exclusive (seller would still have to pay the broker commission if he sold direct) but because even though I saw the thumbnails of the house online I would never had thought of seeing it myself because I didn't think it was my style. My broker had to persuade me to see it and she was absolutely right, it had to be seen in person to be appreciated, I fell in love with it, and just went to contract on it.

4) Are "middle class" families able to carry two mortgages? To buy a good deal on a house before they sell the one they're living in? I WASN'T. Not only did I have a contingency clause on my apartment sale contract, but I had a contingency on my Long Island contract that I could get my deposit refunded should my buyer fail to pass my apartment building's coop board. Brokers and sellers said no lawyer would let his client allow either of these contingencies. Guess what? I got 'em and was able to arrange simultaneous fully executed contracts and expect simultaneous closings the end of May. (Stay tuned.)

Hope that clears things up for some folks. It's been months, did you buy direct Sgtgeorge? Get a good bargain? My bet is that you haven't, and because you wanted to save money by buying direct you'll save even more money than you ever imagined because prices almost everywhere are dropping like lead balloons. Again, I'm checking in to see if this "buying direct" strategy has really worked for any buyers. I don't care if it's for $1M Hemlock Farms lakefront or a $150K chalet in Birchwood. Just don't accuse me of being elitist, lol! (I ain't running for President. Note to PA: Great primary, be proud!)

P.S. - I am no real estate expert or genius. If I were I'd have sold both my PA house, my New York apartment and rented. If I could have afforded it I would have sublet my apartment to keep as a LONG TERM investment AND rented while waiting for houses to drop. But you have to do what you need to do. I needed the stability of owning one place and not moving about continually and worrying about sublettors. That's what worked for me, even if it wasn't the smartest decision.

[sgtgeorge]

Blender,


Maybe I did misunderstand you. I thought you were saying that you were against the whole FSBO thing. My apologies! But . . . when the time comes, I will try and sell my home on Long Island privately first. If that doesn't work out, I will then have no choice then to go with a broker. The same will be true when looking for a home in Hemlock or Masthope. Unfortunately, I cannot carry two mortgages having four children. I wish I could. I did find a beautiful house in Hemlock but the timing is not right and I need to sell here first. The house was listed lower with the seller than it was with the broker. So, if my circumstances were different, I would have been foolish not to negotiate directly with the seller.

Good luck to you in your new home. Lloyd Harbor is truly a beautiful area to live.

[blender]

Best of luck! As you may have guessed, my FSBO experiences both on the buyer and the seller side were not good.

On the seller end, I had to deal with prospective buyers who were either looking for a ridiculous bargain, stringing me along and never calling back or returning calls, or changed their minds at the 11th hour prior to contract signing or flat out lied. (One after the fourth viewing said they'd get back to me with a decision the next day, then I found out from my broker that right afterwards they bought his ex-wife's house which he and all his other agents didn't understand since hers needed a ton of work and mine was so much nicer and overrenovated in a nicer area). Not fun.

On the buyer end, I saw a fsbo sign on a front lawn on what to me was the perfect house (being from Miami) - a 1928 Coral Gables style stucco RANCH with a turrent, barrel tile, central air, tons of original stained glass and hardware, and the nicest kitchen and bathroom I'd ever seen, and it was the smallest and cheapest house on the quiet, tree-lined block. The good news was that the seller was not going to list with a broker. The bad news was that to trade up he needed a price far in excess of what a broker would have sold it for. Now, I loved this house and would have paid the price but it was a 2BR 1550sf 1.5 house on Long Island, where square footage and families are king, and I knew that if I ever had to sell in the near- and mid-term I'd either take a huge loss or be unable to sell it. Even less fun having to kiss goodbye a dream house (think of it as the mansion's guesthouse) I could afford to buy but not to sell.

Also as a buyer, I never saw a fsbo property where the seller was willing to meet in the middle (i.e. deduct half of the standard broker commission) that was priced reasonably and that was of a type or condition that I would even remotely consider, though I'm sure that if I were willing to wait it out (I was not) someone trading way up or way down would (read: well maintained home) may have. Since you're selling a house on Long Island and you know how flat THAT market fell and is continuing to fall, I'm sure you appreciate what a deal you'll be able to get in Hemlock Farms even with a broker when your property eventually does sell. BTW, the only homes I've seen in person on Long Island that have sold within the past eight months (and there are only a few, the rest are languishing) were homes that were either turnkey, huge, had a lot of intrinsic appeal, and where (in the $600-750K price range) dropped their prices anywhere between $50K and $150K. I guess that's the worst news.

[sgtgeorge]

Blender,

Thanks! I am hoping that the money from the sale of my home on Long Island (along with a small mortgage) will get us something nice in PA. We need to wait and see what happens with this market. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will swing back up soon. My inlaws are in Masthope and they love it. My kids really love it there also. Little too far from everything for my liking, but a smooth transition for the kids is my #1 priority.

Best of luck and it was nice chatting with you.

[blender]

Ditto! With a focus on PA I'm sure you'll cash out nicely. Of course, today right after my last post I found out that my mortgage lender (a well known one!) rated the market of my new house as "soft." Geeeez! (Not that it affects my mortgage, but when THAT area is rated as soft imagine others...)

[sgtgeorge]

It sounds as though we will NEVER catch a break! Be well.

[blender]

Actually in terms of getting a mortgage in PA you will. I made a mistake assuming that PA would be "softer" lending-wise than LI, but because PA never went up as much as the tri-state area it isn't going down, plus it's not as market-dependent since NE PA only spiked with 9/11, it was flatlined for almost 15 years until then. And the relatively lower prices and much lower property taxes will continue to make PA a draw.

[Summering]

I have to say that I have a cousin who sells her homes always on her own.
They are in great areas, in fantastic condition, not a thing out of place and decorated to the nines..........
She just told everyone she wanted to keep the thirty thousand herself!( from her first home ) She sold her home in one open house weekend.
That was in better times, I have to add..........and her homes were always impeciable.
They were also in a great location, and I guess she priced them right.
But, her reasoning was.........keeping the profit for herself. Why not, if you know your in a good area, and if and when it is a good market time. Why give the money away for perhaps a sale in days or a week.
The home I live in now I knew I wanted the "first day" it was online. If this owner did an ad herself, she would have had more funds in her pocket too. Quite a few bids came in on this home. So the realtor didn't have to do much to collect $20 grand......in a few days. Wow!

[blender]

The problem is, I suspect that most people's homes in Northeastern PA are neither impeccable, tastefully decorated to the nines nor priced right. All three criteria, however, are subjective. There's always a buyer out there willing to overpay for plaid curtains and blue duck decor. The question is whether the seller can attract them in time.

I remember about 10 years ago in Northport Long Island, people would just buy homes in any condition and flip them a year or two later without having to fix them or put a penny in. Try selling easily for top dollar in Northport today.