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I'll be the first to admit when I permit my emotions to get the better of me, and in my "Crossroads" thread so many of us got so enraged at one another that the profanity and hatred began oozing out of our pores and attracted the attention of Yac, our moderator.
I'd like to apologize at this point in time for my part in the fracas. I wasn't the one who started the name-calling, but I certainly didn't help matters much by starting a thread that I just knew would probably deteriorate into the Hindenburg!
I'd like to extend an olive branch to CHS89, WeLuvPA, Go Phillies, NYRangers2008, and everyone else who was involved in that melee, which I hope Yac will now lock.
Here's my reasoning:
Since I've now decided that the city of Scranton visibly doesn't want me to be a part of its renaissance, I will now promise to BUTT OUT of any sort of debates that may arise on this forum regarding the Electric City in the future. You will see me becoming much more vocal, however, in the upcoming weeks concerning news and politics from Luzerne County. The biggest complaint I heard from all of you is that I didn't deserve to have an opinion on Scranton because I didn't live there and didn't have to struggle as you all do on a day-to-day basis. Well, I DO live in Luzerne County, more specifically Pittston, so I can and will offer my two cents into the happenings here from now on.
I truly don't know what happened to me the other day; I just snapped. For the past several years I would envision my family's future in Scranton and tear up with happiness. I would picture block parties, neighborhood backyard barbecues and pool parties, chatting to neighbors from front porches and over backyard fences and hedges, etc. I would picture myself walking my adopted children by hand to their neighborhood elementary schools before walking myself to my downtown firm. I would picture my whole family dressed in our Sunday best and walking to church on Sunday mornings. I would picture my partner and I walking in the evenings to see the Philharmonic play at the Scranton Cultural Center, attend a lecture at the University of Scranton or Lackawanna College, or sip some lattes at Northern Lights. I would envision walking my kids up to Nay Aug Park to play catch or to see their eyes light up wide at the sight of the waterfall. I was happiest in life when I had such wonderful dreams of a great future for my family in Scranton.
Thankfully, you have all proven to me that I was erroneous in thinking that living happily ever after in Scranton was a real possibility, which is why I have since broadened my horizons. Hell, I'm not even positive anymore that NEPA is in my future now that I just found out my parents likewise want to move out of here to accompany the exodus of dozens of other acquaintances of mine who have already done the same. I'm poking my nose around now and doing research into various cities, including Albany, Madison, Duluth, and Providence, amongst others.
If nothing else, I'd like to thank people like CHS89, WeLuvPA, and others for showing me the light that there ARE possibilities for me to consider besides Scranton to bring entrepreneurial aspirations to. Thank you, and good night. If I promise to keep my nose out of Scranton from now on here on City-Data, I'd appreciate the same courtesy from now on with you all keeping your noses out of my Luzerne County-related threads. After all, you don't pay taxes here, so you have no right to comment, right?
Oh for the love of god; Look, if you want to enjoy the city, enjoy the city. Do you need a committee to tell you that something is good or not? No matter where you go, you will find someONE complaining about someTHING. Why all the sour grapes around here you ask? Maybe everyone that enjoys their life is out enjoying it right now. If you like what you see in downtown Scranton, then do what everyone else does - vote with your dollar. I noticed you brought up Blues St., and people like me who enjoy it there will be making a point to spend money there and keep it going. Do the same. Guess what happens when you do that? YOU FIND LIKE-MINDED INDIVIDUALS ! YAY ! ! They will be happy to love the city with you. Maybe. There are TONS of ways to get involved with BOTH cities; why not start volunteering and see which you like better? Most volunteers are not miserable people. Personally I think WB should be turned into one colossal strip mine. Even way back in 1884 Lackawanna was busting on Luzerne, citing their declining population and calling their courthouse a 'dutch oven.' But, if it's what you like, then what's the problem? Go there, live there, love it there, and don't care what I have to say about it. These guys can gripe all they want about taxes and how we don't need a resurgance in the downtown, but as long as enough people frequent these places, there will still be a poochie, northern light, etc. Maybe not poochie, you really need a good job and a dog you care about to really entertain buying things there, but you do have places like Steamtown Cigar, which has been there ten years or so, and is THRIVING. I see you brought up the gay thing again, and I only mention it because you throw it at people just like your beliefs about Scranton, and you're finding a luke warm reception all-around. People want to have their own beliefs and their own way of doing things, that they obviously feel is right. Instead of trying to force what you think onto everyone, why not just BE what you think. I've told you this before, but really live it, you know? Lead by example, not lecture. Hey, at the very least YOU will be happy, and last time I checked, that's all that counts. I mean for each of us individually, I dont think many people on here really care how YOU feel personally, but you're not being singled out, it's just life. Any of this sink in? Hello???
I truly don't know what happened to me the other day; I just snapped. For the past several years I would envision my family's future in Scranton and tear up with happiness. I would picture block parties, neighborhood backyard barbecues and pool parties, chatting to neighbors from front porches and over backyard fences and hedges, etc. I would picture myself walking my adopted children by hand to their neighborhood elementary schools before walking myself to my downtown firm. I would picture my whole family dressed in our Sunday best and walking to church on Sunday mornings. I would picture my partner and I walking in the evenings to see the Philharmonic play at the Scranton Cultural Center, attend a lecture at the University of Scranton or Lackawanna College, or sip some lattes at Northern Lights. I would envision walking my kids up to Nay Aug Park to play catch or to see their eyes light up wide at the sight of the waterfall. I was happiest in life when I had such wonderful dreams of a great future for my family in Scranton.
That's one thorny olive branch there, my friend. It looks like this will become the third in the 'Why I Love/Hate Scranton' series, which is a genuinely entertaining read for guys like me who have no vested interest in the town.
From a third-party perspective, sometimes it reads as if you are telling your neighbor you won't set foot in thier house unless they clean up properly prior to your arrival.
I'm sure that's not what you meant. Nobody in their right mind would put something like that out there.
Anyways, home is where your heart is. Wherever you and yours end up making your house, you'll find happiness...even if the Philharmonic winds up being a twenty minute commute. It's the people you love, not the town you live in that determine, ultimately, the quality of your life.
That's what I think.
I truly don't know what happened to me the other day; I just snapped. For the past several years I would envision my family's future in Scranton and tear up with happiness. I would picture block parties, neighborhood backyard barbecues and pool parties, chatting to neighbors from front porches and over backyard fences and hedges, etc. I would picture myself walking my adopted children by hand to their neighborhood elementary schools before walking myself to my downtown firm. I would picture my whole family dressed in our Sunday best and walking to church on Sunday mornings. I would picture my partner and I walking in the evenings to see the Philharmonic play at the Scranton Cultural Center, attend a lecture at the University of Scranton or Lackawanna College, or sip some lattes at Northern Lights. I would envision walking my kids up to Nay Aug Park to play catch or to see their eyes light up wide at the sight of the waterfall. I was happiest in life when I had such wonderful dreams of a great future for my family in Scranton.
Honestly your kidding me right? That probably is the so far from the reality statement that I have ever heard. Where the hell do you think you are Mayberry. MY god man its not like that, its just not and it hasn't been for over 50 years. I would want that too if it wasn't soooo fuc&*ng far from the reality of 2007. Jesus man you should write movies because thats one hell of a story.
Quote:
Thankfully, you have all proven to me that I was erroneous in thinking that living happily ever after in Scranton was a real possibility, which is why I have since broadened my horizons.
Oh my god its about time, have you broadened horizons beyond NEPA yet, because you do realize that there is really a world out there and its not flat.
Quote:
If nothing else, I'd like to thank people like CHS89, WeLuvPA, and others for showing me the light that there ARE possibilities for me to consider besides Scranton to bring entrepreneurial aspirations to. Thank you, and good night. If I promise to keep my nose out of Scranton from now on here on City-Data, I'd appreciate the same courtesy from now on with you all keeping your noses out of my Luzerne County-related threads. After all, you don't pay taxes here, so you have no right to comment, right?
Your such a god damn baby Paul really you need to do alot of growing my friend. You seriously need to get a life and stop spending so time dwelling on the trivial things in life. As far as the Olive Branch save it I'm sure your going to **** people off in Luzerne county as well. Oh by the way your fu$%^ng welcome now drop it already. No more threads about it trying to drum up support for yourself ok.
You should definately check out some more opened minded areas. I think you would really enjoy the more flexible thinking of people in places like Burlington, VT, Madison, WI or Portland, OR. There is a certain mindset in NEPA that is most likely never going to change.
You know what is funny Sunflower? Paul has not lived anywhere but here and yet you think he is open minded and we are closed minded. I have lived in 2 countries in Europe, Israel, Bahamas, USVI, Florida, Utah, New Jersey and have spent months of my life in Colorado, New Hampshire, North Carolina. I have seen the so called open mindedness you speak of and guess what they all have their issues and problems, the difference is that places like Burlington are where those that cannot fit in anywhere else run to hide from the real world. Add Boulder to that list as well. Paul just needs to grow up abit and get out and see the real world, see what its like outside of Pittston. He has based 90% of his opinions on nothing because he has no basis to judge against. Numbers on the net are not the reality of living in any city. There is no life experience to use as a basis, just whatever he sees on the net or reads in some study. You cannot judge a person or a population by the net or surveys. His opinions are based on nothing tangible. Thats the truth if it hurts so what, thats life. Its full of a long string of disappointments that are called growing up, its how we learn what is right or wrong, its how we learn what we need to do to make our lives better. This kid lives in moms house and he is 20 yet he feels that he has the knowledge and experience to tell hard working adults that they are not educated or what is right or wrong for them. He also states that we should not complain about paying our taxes and that he would have no problem with them if he was here, he is not. Those are easy statements to make from your moms basement I might add. Basically he is way out line and has been on this forum for a while now. Sure he has his fans, but what are they sticking up for him for? Photo tours? Come on here this is a 20 year old kid who has over stepped his bounds and now he is being told to knock it off, if your not directly involved then maybe you too are venturing into a converstaion that is not yours. Paul did this to himself.
Well, WeLuvPA, thank you for just throwing this extended olive branch into the trash bin and once again reigniting the animosity on this forum. I was fully prepared in this thread to let bygones be bygones, but it appears as if there are miserable malcontents out there like you that just can't let things drop when your opponent has already conceded for the betterment of the forum as a whole. You want a fight? You've got it.
I hope you continue to "fight the good fight" in Scranton in terms of you and your loyalists managing to drive even MORE residents out of this city with your abounding negativity. Contrary to popular belief not EVERYONE in Scranton thinks your property taxes are outrageous, and I even pointed evidence to the contrary in the past when I compared similar homes in the suburbs with HIGHER annual property tax bills in communities that provide fewer municipal services. What you are doing in terms of the flooding situation along the Lackawanna River and the potential health hazards eminating from Daron Northeast are both noble causes that I respect you greatly for. However, I honestly can't say I follow your logic on how spouting out nothing but negativity about EVERYTHING ELSE in your city while discrediting EVERY ONE OF ITS BENEFITS that could outweight those shortcomings is supposed to attract the new residents necessary to increase its tax base and patch up its damaged finances.
Whether you like it or not there are people out there who aren't short-sighted like you and realize that creating a thriving downtown full of retail, entertainment, employment, and residential areas is a GREAT way to improve the city's image, which in turn will attract new residents. I'm not really a Doherty supporter, but he has the right idea of creating a new downtown that is attractive to the middle-class. Just because YOU don't like places like Poochie, New Laundry, Runway, Occasions, Northen Lights, Outrageous, Marquis, etc. doesn't mean that others don't find them attractive. When you have what is perceived to be an "up-and-coming" downtown, people WILL want to live near all of the action. National trends indicate that people in the outer suburbs are tiring of their commutes and are seeking to live nearer to conveniences again. I GUARANTEE, Dan, that if Jefferson Pointe were finally built and was ready for occupancy of Fall 2008, you'd have all of those middle-class apartment/condo units filled within mere weeks. Just look at how popular the Lofts at the Mill has been, and those units are nowhere near downtown.
You continually kvetch and b*tch "nobody cares about downtown." Well that's just too freakin' bad that you and those you know are apparently blind to the facts that people gain their first and LASTING impression of a city like Scranton based upon what they see occurring in its core. If they see a lot of revitalization projects occurring, they'll see the city as a WHOLE as being "up-and-coming." If they see a lot of blight and vacancy, they'll think the city is downtrodden and has no future. Be honest here, Dan, when you lived in these bajillion places that you always rattle off to belittle me, where did you base your first impressions of each of these cities? An outer-ring neighborhood or the downtown? Making the downtown attractive again is the FIRST step in revitalizing your city, whether you or your fellow city residents can see that or not. Why is the price tag so high? Just look at how much of a hell hole the city's downtown was in the 1990s and realize that EVERY project that had to be undertaken since then had a seven-figure price tag attached. Would you have rather saved all of that money by permitting downtown to continue to sit and rot into 2007? If so, then you're among the majority who seem to think that penny-pinching is better than urban revitalization.
By the way, I don't know where your fellow council regulars get their statistics from, but I find it HIGHLY suspect that the city's population declined from 76,415 in 2000 to 60,000 in 2007. A decline of over 2,000 residents per YEAR in the city when most DECADES showed a decline of perhaps 3,000-5,000 at a clip sounds VERY peculiar to me; my guess would be that those who continually quote the city's population as 60,000 are pulling numbers out of their a$$es in order to make the city look even worse than it already does in hopes that they'll lead everyone to believe that Doherty is chasing people out of the city like the plague (which isn't the case). If anything, I'd peg the city's population at around 70,000, since its U.S. Census Bureau estimate for 2006 is 72,861. Would you mind explaining to me where all of these council heroes get their 60,000 figure from?
The only reason this city continues to decline is because of the negativity that so many of you spew out 24/7 about it. It's fine to rattle off tax increase, political ineptness, etc. if you COUNTERBALANCE it with reasons why people should move into the city and/or NOT leave the city. Can all of you honestly be so blind to the fact that negativity in no way, shape, or form improves your tax base?
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 10-18-2007 at 10:03 AM..
Reason: Typo
You should definately check out some more opened minded areas. I think you would really enjoy the more flexible thinking of people in places like Burlington, VT, Madison, WI or Portland, OR. There is a certain mindset in NEPA that is most likely never going to change.
Thank you very much for the options.
The "mindset" is the area's biggest hurdle hampering its recovery. I can live with the homophobia. I can live with the racism against African-Americans and Hispanics. I can live with the intolerance of people from NY and NJ. I can live with the overpopulation of senior citizens. I can live with the "Brain Drain."
One thing that I can NOT live with is the whole mentality many people around here have of "woe is me." Whether it consists of people bashing teachers, politicians, doctors, lawyers, and other college-educated professionals for making more money than they do or overshadowing ANY positive elements to the region with their abounding "sky is falling" negativity, these particular attitudes truly get under my skin.
People around here, for lack of a better term, are short-sighted. They see the need for Lackawanna and Luzerne Counties to attract more residents and retain our educated youth in order to rebuild our tax base and improve our overall quality-of-life, yet instead of heralding all of the potential this region has to make something of itself in order to accomplish this goal, the residents (such as WeLuvPA) do nothing but shout out its negatives from the higest ridgetops to scare everyone off. YES we have rising taxes. YES we have potholes. YES we have many idiotic political leaders and heads of our local chambers of commerce. YES we have racism and homophobia. YES we have a shortage of high-paying jobs. Thank you, Dan, for shouting these things out over and over and OVER again to anyone and everyone within earshot who WAS considering moving here to help rebuild our tax base before reading such remarks. What you fail to also mention is that we ALSO have beautiful scenery, dynamic weather, rebounding downtowns, historic architecture, proximity to the BosWash Corridor, concerts, ski resorts, minor-league sports, below-average housing prices, low crime, relatively-low taxes (in relation to the rest of the Northeast), and a rapidly-growing arts/cultural scene, amongst other positive qualities. You won't hear Dan (or anyone else on this forum for that matter) saying one peep about these positive qualities; however, you WILL hear a cacophony of WHINE, WHINE, WHINE, B*TCH, B*TCH, B*TCH about how "awful" things are around here. That's just great. I'm sure new residents will be knocking at our doorstep and our college-educated youth will be hanging on for dear life when they read about how far downhill our city and region are headed.
The short-sightedness of some people simply amazes me. As I ponder another city to relocate to, I'm looking for the ones where people are most likely to rally behind its defense when someone comes to bash it. Believe it or not, so far Pittsburgh is winning that particular gauge of mine. Civic pride is something ESSENTIAL to my future hometown, and sadly I thought Scranton had it when it truly did not. Those who I DID think had hope for a brighter tomorrow in Scranton Dan had to crush into the ground when he told me they were all pawns and cronies. Do you know what it's like to feel socially-isolated? I do. It's not encouraging at all to feel like you're in a tiny oasis of optimism surrounded by a desert of pessimism and misery.
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 10-18-2007 at 10:18 AM..
Reason: Typo
Oh so now its Pittsburgh. Jeezz it was St. Paul, Scranton, Wilkes-Barre hmm I know I am forgeting some but whatever. Your just looking to fill some void in your life thru your friends here on CD, I'm tired of your verbatem rants from websites and or books, you really have no contact or vibe with the residents here and as far the council speakers at least they have a set and are willing to actually try to make some change whether you agree with them or not. You have really never gotten yourself involved have you Paul? Oh ya you spoke once to try to get the U to give a tuition break if the student stays here after school, likely they'll do that and most would rather pay more money and have the OPTION to go if they want I would imagine. I'm tired of your long winded rants and really they add up to nothing, go cry, go to Pittsburgh whatever. I can tell you one thing I'm not the only sick of your childish nonsense on this board. Grow up and drop it. No more whoa is me threads and no more whoa is NEPA crap. Whats next a "I'm depressed and I don't know what to do" thread. Let it go..............
Oh so now its Pittsburgh. Jeezz it was St. Paul, Scranton, Wilkes-Barre hmm I know I am forgeting some but whatever. Your just looking to fill some void in your life thru your friends here on CD, I'm tired of your verbatem rants from websites and or books, you really have no contact or vibe with the residents here and as far the council speakers at least they have a set and are willing to actually try to make some change whether you agree with them or not. You have really never gotten yourself involved have you Paul? Oh ya you spoke once to try to get the U to give a tuition break if the student stays here after school, likely they'll do that and most would rather pay more money and have the OPTION to go if they want I would imagine. I'm tired of your long winded rants and really they add up to nothing, go cry, go to Pittsburgh whatever. I can tell you one thing I'm not the only sick of your childish nonsense on this board. Grow up and drop it. No more whoa is me threads and no more whoa is NEPA crap. Whats next a "I'm depressed and I don't know what to do" thread. Let it go..............
You're apparently the one who can't let things go, Dan. Yes, I am now honestly pondering Pittsburgh (along with about a dozen other cities) for relocation. I'll be posting new threads in the forums of these cities as the weeks progress as I narrow down my search. You've won; I've lost. I'm moving out of the area. The "Brain Drain" strikes again.
By the way, how do MOST of those who approach the podium "help" the city? If anything, by driving Scranton's image down into the pits with their Legion of Doom t-shirts, applause of people who make fun of Judy, false allegations about relatives of city council members, etc. is actually HURTING it. If you think the Legion of Doom, Doherty Deceit, etc. are doing this city a service, then I feel sorry for you, and I'll continue to laugh from afar when I'm out of the area in 2009 and living happily in a fresh environment where negativity isn't so horridly-prevalent.
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 10-18-2007 at 11:05 AM..
Reason: Typo
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If I promise to keep my nose out of Scranton from now on here on City-Data, I'd appreciate the same courtesy from now on with you all keeping your noses out of my Luzerne County-related threads. After all, you don't pay taxes here, so you have no right to comment, right? 
