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Dan, I totally agree. I walked around the downtown yesterday and I couldn't believe all the empty store fronts in and around the area of Wyoming Ave. and Linden Street. These probably housed the kind of boutiques and speciality shoppes you speak of. This city is never going to survive with these fringe business models that Doherty is trying to put forth. To me, the downtown still doesn't look as great as everyone makes it sound. I just don't see it. There's really nothing there except some restaurants, trendy stores, the courthouse and city hall and the Mall at Steamtown. When you mention wage sustaining jobs, how come an auto manufacturer has never came to NEPA? They seem to be all down south and in the mid-west. Now that would turn this whole area around. That goes back to what you said, parks and salons are not attactive to outside companies, when the city is in distress and residents are fleeing in record numbers. The mayor is trying to use the downtown as a facade and it's not working, because it doesn't look that great. Outside companies see this and say no to Scranton and the surrounding area.
Last edited by NYRangers 2008; 10-28-2007 at 05:39 AM..
Reason: typo
Ed I counted close to 50 empty store fronts and or reatil spaces in the immediate downtown. There are empty spaces on every street in the downtown. Its a shame but its the reality of what has happened here. Like someone has said previous, the funding has dried up and now the projects are dead and along with them so is the space they were supposed to occupy is dead in the water now. Empty is empty and it does nothing for our tax base.
When you mention wage sustaining jobs, how come an auto manufacturer has never came to NEPA? They seem to be all down south and in the mid-west. Now that would turn this whole area around.
Those up on local history know that Henry Ford wanted to do just that, and tried to establish a factory in the Scranton area. The coal barons put an end to it, as they felt it would take away their work force and loosen their grip on the area.
Dan, I totally agree. I walked around the downtown yesterday and I couldn't believe all the empty store fronts in and around the area of Wyoming Ave. and Linden Street. These probably housed the kind of boutiques and speciality shoppes you speak of. This city is never going to survive with these fringe business models that Doherty is trying to put forth. To me, the downtown still doesn't look as great as everyone makes it sound. I just don't see it. There's really nothing there except some restaurants, trendy stores, the courthouse and city hall and the Mall at Steamtown. When you mention wage sustaining jobs, how come an auto manufacturer has never came to NEPA? They seem to be all down south and in the mid-west. Now that would turn this whole area around. That goes back to what you said, parks and salons are not attactive to outside companies, when the city is in distress and residents are fleeing in record numbers. The mayor is trying to use the downtown as a facade and it's not working, because it doesn't look that great. Outside companies see this and say no to Scranton and the surrounding area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weluvpa
Ed I counted close to 50 empty store fronts and or reatil spaces in the immediate downtown. There are empty spaces on every street in the downtown. Its a shame but its the reality of what has happened here. Like someone has said previous, the funding has dried up and now the projects are dead and along with them so is the space they were supposed to occupy is dead in the water now. Empty is empty and it does nothing for our tax base.
While I can see what you two are saying about the vacant storefronts and office downtown, you'd also be remiss to not give credit to those businesses that have both stood the test of time in the city for generations, as well as to those who have opened up in the past several years under the dreaded tenure of the current administration. Here are just a few independentdowntown merchants, services, employers, and eateries I can name off the top of my head, in addition to the newer chains like Molly Brannigan's, Starbucks, Subway, Rite-Aid, and Faccia Luna in Hyde Park (I'm sure there are many more as well):
AFA Gallery
Aglio
Alexander's Spa
Anthologie Books
Banshee
Blues Street
Boccardo Jewelers
Brixx
Buona Pizza
Cafe Beignet
Caferrazi
Carmen's
Cigar Club
Comics on the Green
Coney Island
Cooper's
Crazy Pineapple
Diversified
Duffy Accessories
DxDempsey
Farley's
Flashback's
Gallucci Music
Helen Schwartz Gifts
Lavish
Lenora's Women's Clothing and Accessories
Marquis Art & Frame
Martini
MaryAnne's Country Closet
Mert's
Michael's Luxury Eyewear
New Laundry
Northern Light Espresso Bar
Occasions
Osaka
Outrageous
Parente-Randolph
Penn Furniture
Pierre's Fine Clothing and Accessories
Pizza by Pappas
Poochie
Quint's
Rain Tree
Rocky's
Runway
Sarno & Sons
Scranton Hobby
Semian & Gress
Sew Smart Fabrics
Silhouette Lounge
Silver on Spruce
Steamtown Cigar Club
Thai Rak Thai
Tink's
Tom Grudis Optical Center
Toy Globe
Trax
VaxServe
Vida Tapas Bar
Whistle's
....Many More (Including a new fruit basket shop next-door to the Subway on North Washington Avenue whose name escapes me).
Yes, it is true that MaryAnne's Country Closet and Quint's are both soon closing their doors. Yes, it is true that the AFA Gallery, Buona Pizza, and Coney Island may all be in jeopardy if an agreement isn't somehow worked out with the developer of the 500-block of Lackawanna Avenue. However, when you look past the vacant storefronts and "FOR RENT" signs all over town, it is easy to likewise find hundreds of businesses within the city limits which are doing just fine from Mansour's to Alfredo's to the House of China to Electric City Roasting and everywhere in between. Why only look at the "glass half-empty" when the glass is also "half-full?" I think if anything there are probably more businesses in the city limits of Scranton now than there were a decade ago.
I'm sure Dan will quote this reply and add red ink behind each and every business I listed in an attempt to show me why none of them have any sort of positive value to the city, but I'm inclined to disagree. ALL of these businesses have some sort of value to somebody. I don't personally like tobacco-related products, but I still say "more power to you" in regards to the The Cigar Club and Steamtown Cigar Club. I don't personally have a pooch anymore that is worth pampering, but I'm grateful that a place like Poochie does exist for those that do care about their dogs. I don't personally like coffee, but the fact that Scranton now has about a half-dozen coffeehouses offers college students and downtown workers alike opportunities to mingle. I'm sure Dan isn't gay, but I'm sure he's aware that reopening the LGBT-oriented Silhouette Lounge downtown will create spin-off business in terms of patrons visiting other businesses. I DO happen to be a rabid fan of Brixx's salads and B-B-B Burgers, and I'd take issue with anyone saying Brixx isn't worth visiting simply because they personally don't like the atmosphere there. I've continued to boycott both Whistle's and Chick's Diner for their open defiance of city law (even if it was deemed illegal to enforce; I just think businesses should adhere city ordinances based upon principle). However, I know of many who continue to enjoy gravy fries at the diner and a few brews at Whistle's. I'd never fault them for that. I don't happen to like Starbuck's. However, a lot of people think Starbuck's = "trendy," so I say "bring 'em on" if more of those corporate goliaths in our downtown will help to improve its image to our tourists (which was why I started a thread about the fourth Starbuck's coming to Wilkes-Barre last week). I don't happen to like sewing, but I'm sure many women are appreciative of the fact that a place like Sew Smart Fabrics exists. I have 20/20 vision, but it's nice to know that if and when my Internet addiction results in me becoming near-sighted I'll be able to purchase a cool pair of thick-framed shades from a place like Michael's Luxury Eyewear. I know many women on a budget appreciate a place like Occasions, where they can rent their formalwear for special occasions, even though I personally have no use for a store like that downtown.
My point is that just because some people in the city can't afford to shop at some of these businesses doesn't make them "unnecessary." You need to attract the middle-class and upper-middle-class demographics back to your city from the suburbs, and giving them retailers and eateries that cater to their specific needs will make them much more likely to consider moving within walking distance of downtown to be near these amenities. A good downtown should have a mix of everything, and Scranton is about 75% there in terms of having a good tenant mix. You have places like Marc's Tattooing and a few dive bars on up to NYC-style fashion boutiques. Attract a downtown market selling fresh produce, meats, and cheeses, and you'll have nearly everything you need downtown to finally support a few new loft or condo complexes. I'll agree with Dan that paying $325,000 is IDIOTIC just to live downtown, but I think units priced around $150,000 downtown will sell like hot cakes in a few years. You'll have college professors, graduate students, artists, retirees, empty-nesters, young professionals, middle-aged couples, and unhappy suburbanites (such as myself) clamoring to live where they can walk to all of these places. There are more than you'd think that would like to be able to say "I only need to drive twice a week" as opposed to many in our area now who are connected to the hip with their vehicles. Make downtown an attractive 24-hour middle-class neighborhood with a few thousand new residents, and the revitalization will fan out in a radius into the adjacent neighborhoods, such as the Lower Hill, Pine Brook (which is currently troubled), Upper South Side, and Hyde Park. It's happened in hundreds of other cities that have undergone rebirths; why not Scranton too?
P.S. I was at the convention this past weekend, and you wouldn't believe the OVERWHELMINGLY positive, nice comments the people I met from across the nation made about the city. They liked all of the restaurants downtown, they adored the architecture, and they were very happy with how friendly everyone was. Sometimes it takes an outsider to give you a different perspective on your hometown. I even heard that "The Office" cast member Phyllis Smith remarked to someone that she'd like to purchase a home in Scranton. Yes, the city has a 3.4% wage tax, a 95% or so city tax increase over the next several years, potholes, and some inept politicians at the helm, but by and large things are looking brighter, especially when people you meet at a convention from as far away as Wisconsin make nice comments about it (despite the heavy rains).
AFA Gallery
Aglio
Alexander's Spa-Kept alive with a $250,000 from the city we can't afford
Anthologie Books - We'll see
Banshee - Bar
Blues Street-Closed
Boccardo Jewelers - long time business
Brixx - Used to be a brew house that failed
Buona Pizza
Cafe Beignet-Not Downtown, barely getting by.
Caferrazi
Carmen's - Hotel restaurant keep alive by the Radisson
Cigar Club
Comics on the Green
Coney Island - long time business
Cooper's- Not downtown
Crazy Pineapple
Diversified - records storage
Duffy Accessories
DxDempsey - Crony firm 100% financed by family money
Farley's - Bar
Flashback's - Bar
Gallucci Music- long time business
Helen Schwartz Gifts- long time business
Lavish
Lenora's Women's Clothing and Accessories
Marquis Art & Frame
Martini - Bar
MaryAnne's Country Closet- Closing
Mert's- changed names 3 times in 2 years, sold 3 times
Michael's Luxury Eyewear
New Laundry
Northern Light Espresso Bar- 4 tax leins & sold at huge discount once
Occasions
Osaka- long time business
Outrageous
Parente-Randolph - Where?
Penn Furniture- long time business
Pierre's Fine Clothing and Accessories
Pizza by Pappas- long time business
Poochie- won't last
Quint's- closed
Rain Tree
Rocky's -BAR
Runway
Sarno & Sons - Not downtown
Scranton Hobby- long time business
Semian & Gress - Realtor
Sew Smart Fabrics
Silhouette Lounge -BAR
Silver on Spruce
Steamtown Cigar Club
Thai Rak Thai
Tink's- Bar
Tom Grudis Optical Center
Toy Globe- CLosed
Trax - Hotel restaurant keep alive by the Radisson
VaxServe
Vida Tapas Bar
Whistle's
.... Scranton now has about a half-dozen coffeehouses Where?
Rite Aid, Starbucks are chain corporate stores and the Subway is actually part of Electric city pizza, both business' in one location cuts the overhead bigtime.
Sure thats a great list but I do not judge our downtown revival by the bars or restaraunts that have been there for along time or at least opened before the Doherty debt has built up. You left out a few and that list is becoming dated, I know I have seen it before. SWB I'm not arguing with you about the downtown. If you want to quote your net stats then fine go ahead but the reality is the reality of the downtown. Most if not all the restaurants that you have listed make their money during lunch, the downtown is dead after 5pm. Only a few places draw people in after dark if they are not a bar.
We are all delighted to re-re-re-re revisit the downtown Scranton quaqmire......so,
if there are no further comments about downtown Wilkes-Barre.........
When you mention wage sustaining jobs, how come an auto manufacturer has never came to NEPA? They seem to be all down south and in the mid-west. .
I have an answer to that. Auto manufacturers have considered this area in the past. I have a friend who works for one of the major auto manufacturers who said they were looking at NE PA for a facility at one point in recent history, but balked because of the political climate...all the back door deals that are necessary to get into this area (which I can guess that the Chamber of Commerce is a big part of) and the strong union influence.
This area's business climate needs to come out of the early-20th-century labor union and corrupt politics albatross if we're ever to attract jobs that pay a wage that families can live on.
I have an answer to that. Auto manufacturers have considered this area in the past. I have a friend who works for one of the major auto manufacturers who said they were looking at NE PA for a facility at one point in recent history, but balked because of the political climate...all the back door deals that are necessary to get into this area (which I can guess that the Chamber of Commerce is a big part of) and the strong union influence.
This area's business climate needs to come out of the early-20th-century labor union and corrupt politics albatross if we're ever to attract jobs that pay a wage that families can live on.
I agree. We need to show the rest of the nation that Scranton is a 21st-Century player and isn't still lamenting the loss of the coal industry. Too many in this city have a "blue-collar union membership or die" mentality, and that truly needs to change. We need to make the workforce more attractive to new business ventures first before we can entice some decent-paying manufacturing jobs back to our region.
As far as the white-collar sector goes, I feel as if Scranton and Wilkes-Barre should each be spending much more money to invest in business incubators. Wilkes-Barre has spawned two major high-tech employers, Pepperjam and Solid Cactus, from humble beginnings in its incubator, and I'm sure Scranton is right around the corner from producing success stories as well from its incubator. Solid Cactus recently announced that it is greatly-expanding and needs to move to the suburbs to have more space to hire more white-collar employees, which is great news for the region as a whole (but bad news for Wilkes-Barre since Mayor Leighton brushed them off when they needed help finding larger space in the city limits). Pepperjam is also always looking for recent graduates of my college to hire, which means they must likewise be doing well. I know some think of the words "tax forgiveness" or "subsidy" and feel vomit starting to come up their esophagus, but if we can produce a half-dozen more businesses in Scranton and Wilkes-Barre from the same humble beginnings of Solid Cactus and Pepperjam, we'll be able to do a better job of retaining more of our young college graduates (which will in turn help to boost our percentage of college graduates in upcoming census reports, which will lure more higher-paying employers to our region who will want to capitalize upon a better-trained workforce). It's a win-win for everyone to invest minimally now in these small firms and then watch them grow like Chia Pets.
Our incubater is a failure. One of the business's in our downtown beehive that was supposed to help bouce back the downtown with its KOZ status in leaving for more financially stable grounds. McCann school of business is leaving for greener pastures in Dickson City. Yep like lemmings they are running when the koz is up, add another one to the list that is going. KOZ do not work if a favorable tax impact is not there when the koz is up.
Our incubater is a failure. One of the business's in our downtown beehive that was supposed to help bouce back the downtown with its KOZ status in leaving for more financially stable grounds. McCann school of business is leaving for greener pastures in Dickson City. Yep like lemmings they are running when the koz is up, add another one to the list that is going. KOZ do not work if a favorable tax impact is not there when the koz is up.
It's just so odd that the incubator in Scranton was built before the one in Wilkes-Barre, yet the one in the Diamond City has produced (at least) two middle-class-sustaining employers like Solid Cactus and Pepperjam while the one in the Electric City has yet to pump any out (to my knowledge). However, didn't TMG Health get its roots from the business incubator in Scranton? If so, isn't it sad that they moved to Dunmore in the end when there is so much office space available in Downtown Scranton? I've heard rumors that there is even a third major employer that might soon be spawned from Wilkes-Barre's incubator (making it a success in my eyes) while Scranton still doesn't have any success stories. Why? Are those running the one in Scranton just inept or what?
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I even heard that "The Office" cast member Phyllis Smith remarked to someone that she'd like to purchase a home in Scranton. Yes, the city has a 3.4% wage tax, a 95% or so city tax increase over the next several years, potholes, and some inept politicians at the helm, but by and large things are looking brighter, especially when people you meet at a convention from as far away as Wisconsin make nice comments about it (despite the heavy rains).
I've heard rumors that there is even a third major employer that might soon be spawned from Wilkes-Barre's incubator (making it a success in my eyes) while Scranton still doesn't have any success stories. Why? Are those running the one in Scranton just inept or what? 
