Is the right place for us in the NEPA? (Bethlehem: for sale, apartment)

[MrsFantastico]

Hello,

I was hoping the lovely people in this forum could help us with narrowing down the parts of PA that we should focus on researching and physically checking out. We have lived in NJ for the last five years. We came here from Queens NY, and we are originally from Long Island NY.

We own our home in NJ and are looking to sell and move further out of the NYC area for a better quality of life. We are over city living and would like something more rural and small town friendly that is safe with good schools for our 3 sons. I would love to have enough land (.25a+) to have a small farm (fruit and vegetable garden, chickens) and a house big enough to hold our family and guests considering we are moving further away. I do not mind having to drive to get to things like the grocery and do not need walkability.

We are currently considering just outside Bethlehem (Bath/Nazareth) and NEPA areas of the Poconos and Stroudsburg. I have also posted this in the LV forums.

My husband will be commuting to NYC daily but on off hours (leaving 4am/leaving nyc 3pm) by either bus or car and I am a stay at home mom.

I am ok with the public schools not being 9/10 but I do have a concern for the special services available. We are also concerned with the amount of crime in any given area as both of these issues are driving us out of our current location.

I hope I've covered all the important stuff and I greatly appreciate any and all recommendations! TIA

When are you moving? Planing for the Summer of 2016
Where are you coming from? Bayonne NJ (Hudson county)
Why are you moving? Better schools, quality of life and affordability
Where will you be working? Husband works in NYC
Have you been here yet? Travel to PA all the time for attractions like Please Touch, Philly, Sesame, ect..)

Will you buy or rent? Long term looking to buy but may rent first
If buying, are you looking for a house or a condo? How much can you spend? Single family house up to 300K
If renting, are you looking for an apartment, a townhouse or loft? How much can you spend? up to 2k a month
Do you prefer hi-rise or walk up? walk up

Are you married or single? Do you have children? Married, 3 boys ages 2,4 and 6 as well as my father age 76
Do you prefer public or private schools? Public (but if the cost of living is low enough we could go private)
Do you have pets? A small dog
Do you want or need a yard? Would love as much land as possible when buying
Are you keeping a car? 2 cars
Do you prefer bustling activity or calm and quiet? Calm, quiet and safe

What do you want to be closest to?
Work preferably 1.5 hours or so away
Shopping I'd like access to quality food; farmers markets/grocery store
Basic services (supermarket, drugstore, etc.)
Nightlife
Near Bus stop? Please note that there is NO rail service in the Lehigh Valley. Yes

Do you want to live with people of a similar age, race, religion or sexual preference or do you prefer a diverse neighborhood? None issue

Phillies or Mets? Mets

[Wells5]

There are plenty of housing bargains available (foreclosures mostly) in private developments in Pike and Monroe Counties. If escaping the urban jungle and affordable housing is what you desire, this is your best option. Can't comment on Northampton and Lehigh Counties other than that those areas are much more expensive.

Most of the private developments will not allow farm animals, which include chickens. Township zoning laws may limit farm animals to properties with a certain number of acres, certainly more than 0.25 acres. There aren't very many homes on acreage in or outside of developments. The Poconos are an upland plateau and not really suited to most agricultural pursuits.

Have you read the past postings from commuters to NYC from the Poconos? It will wear you out even if you travel off hours. But I can see why you'd want to move. The pervasive smells of the refineries, chemical plants and factories in the Elizabeth- Bayonne corridor are awful.

[DavidWebb]

I think you should look into the Honesdale area in the northern part of NEPA if you want rural and land for farming. Also, Milford which is close to 84 for commuting which I don't recommend. Even during off-hours (which I also do) the commute is a nightmare and will take a toll on not only your car but your health as well. So you need to seriously take into consideration whether this is something you want to subject yourself and your family to. You mention bringing your 76 father along which you also have to consider in your area buying. You want to be relativity close to hospitals in case of emergencies for him as well as doctors visits. Just a few things to consider and keep in mind.

[MrsFantastico]

Thank you Wells5 and DavidWebb!

From what we are looking at in Stroudsburg we would be able to get a few acres and we have no strong feeling one way or the other about being in or out of a development. Please let me know if we should have a strong opinion!

David we have ruled out Milford as just too far. My husband has a lot of colleagues who travel from the Stroudsburg area and the main reason we are seriously considering it is because the drastic drop in the cost of living would make the commute worth it. He would also prefer the bus to actually driving in if he can help it. We have indeed read tons of NYC commuting posts. Unfortunately you need to be at least 1.5 hours out of the city to live these days and there was a year where he was commuting 2 hours each way from Bayonne to the Bronx to work. Meaning being closer to the city doesn't always mean a shorter commute. We also have the added saving grace of him being union and having to sit at home for 2-3 months out of every year on furlough.

It's funny I never thought chickens would be an issue in PA since they are allowed here on our very small urban backyard property. But I will definitely check into the town ordinances. As well as the Honesdale area.

Wells in our neighborhood we have a terrible school system and too much crime for my liking, let alone the smells. For example our yard was broken into while we were home and our bikes stolen. Two more attempts after that, one where they tried to dismantle the fence to get in. Between that, our neighbors cars being broken into and drive-by shootings at the playground we want to get the hell out of dodge. From reading all of the posts in this forum I am concerned about whether or not a place like Stroudsburg can offer a safer environment for my 3 sons to grow up in.

My 76 year old father is a crap shoot. he could decide not to come at all but yes indeed services like doctors and hospitals are important. I'd actually be more concerned about them for my 3 boys since they run around like nuts.

I really appreciate your wisdom, thank you both!

[Wells5]

The Stroudsburg area does have crime issues. Proximity to the NY/NJ metro area is the main reason. You can read about them in the Pocono Record Police Blotter. See link.

Police And Courts - poconorecord.com - Stroudsburg, PA

You say that your husband is an electrician. If he works in NYC, I assume that he is a licensed journeyman and possibly union affiliated?

With those credentials, he can find work deep in the PA hinterlands where there are few if any crime issues. He won't make as much money, but your quality of life will be much better. North central or central or south central PA has many small communities and rural farming areas.

[MrsFantastico]

I find that problem practically anywhere you have convenient transportation to NYC and look more to live just outside of it if possible.

He is an IBEW electrician and we looked into transferring his card to another state but it is impossible. I would much rather go west coast but we have to stay near NYC or go overseas.

[MrsFantastico]

Would you all recommend the Saylorsburg, Wind Gap, Pen Argyle, Bangor areas as a good place to live and raise a family?

Also how is the deer/tick problem up there?

[charmed hour]

So as someone who has commuted to the Bronx for work from the Martz Delaware Water Gap station. Earliest bus M-F bus is 4am with arrival at Port Authority at 5:10am depending on travel conditions. From Port Authority he would need to travel uptown. Express buses don't start running until around 6am. Depending on train line he would need, he's looking at an hour or more to his destination. Same with heading Bronx to Stroudsburg. Also, traffic on 80 starts building around 3:30-4p most days. He can expect to more than likely spend at least a half hour sitting in traffic somewhere in Jersey.

Martz isn't cheap, either. Commuter package of 40 one way trips is about $530.00 plus he'd had to pay a parking fee at the station or have someone drop him off. The 40 trips are good for only 34 days from date of purchase. Plus the cost of MTA fares.

Martz Trailways – Commuter Fares

I find it much less time consuming and far less aggravation to just drive in. Far more direct into the Bronx than public transportation commuting.


Also, re: transferring his card, you probably wouldn't want to even if you could. The pay cut is pretty significant. My other half is Teamster and he moved from NYC. He had to apply as if he was not a cardholder and then apply with the new local. Big $ cut and he's working out of a yard near Philly. But that was his choice.

[DavidWebb]

Originally Posted by MrsFantastico

Would you all recommend the Saylorsburg, Wind Gap, Pen Argyle, Bangor areas as a good place to live and raise a family? Also how is the deer/tick problem up there?

I live in the Saylorsburg area since Nov. 2007 and it's pretty much what your looking for....it's a little south of Rt. 80 for commuting to NY but not by much....as for land for farming there's plenty....there's a house with 53 acres that initially was for sale at $640K but eventually went down to $540K and still hasn't sold...they took the sign down but might still be interested in selling if someone asked....it's right on Kunkletown Road in Saylorsburg close to Rt. 115....further west of there is a 450 acre lot for sale but they're asking a few million for that one....so there is variety....as for the tick problem that's anywhere but I believe there is a website for looking up certain areas for the latest info on that...not sure what the URL is though....

[jtab4994]

Originally Posted by MrsFantastico

It's funny I never thought chickens would be an issue in PA since they are allowed here on our very small urban backyard property. But I will definitely check into the town ordinances. As well as the Honesdale area.

We're on 7 acres in Shawnee (Smithfield Twp), just east of East Stroudsburg, and the people who owned the house before us had chickens. In fact the chicken coop is still standing, so I assume we could raise some chickens if we wanted to! We are about 4 miles from the DWG bridge, which makes my 35-mile commute pretty easy.

We've been here since 1993 and we've raised two boys who are now aged 21 (student at ESU) and 17 (senior at Notre Dame HS). We were never at a loss for things for our kids to do, whether it's youth football, YMCA soccer, Little League, Scouts, or church activities. We recommend Notre Dame schools in East Stroudsburg which starts at Pre-K and goes thru 12th grade, if you can swing it. The public schools in East Stroudsburg (South) are fine and our kids have many friends who went to public school, but we just preferred Catholic school.

There is some crime in certain areas of Stroudsburg/East Stroudsburg. Being from Bayonne and the general New York area, you already know about avoiding certain areas at certain times of the night (for example my wife won't go to the Wal-Mart in East Stroudsburg after dark).

Good luck in your search!