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One of my students was in Kirby Park the other day with her granddaughter. The girl wanted to go down to the pond to see the ducks and geese, so they started down...
No ducks. No geese. No waterfowl of any kind.
Now, I know in the past they had speakers playing something that was supposed to scare them off, and I even recall one idea of bringing in an exterminator to poison them.
If the latter is what happened here, there's going to be trouble, I assure you.
Anyone know what happened? This isn't just a seasonal phenomenon, is it?
They were using a border collie to scare them off last year and they might be doing again this year.
That's interesting. Never heard about that one - thanks!
Now if they could just get a rottie to take care of the guy decapitating the geese and swans.
I just find it incredibly short-sighted and symptomatic of ME-ME-ME people that they complain about the wildlife because they might step in some fresh fertilizer.
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I was there with my children and some guy decapitate a goose and a swan with a knife. It really scared me.
I wish I had been working out there at the time. Did you by chance report that to the police?
A couple or ducks or geese are not an issue but if you were ever there when there were hundreds of them you'd know it was more than just a little bit of fertilizer laying around. You couldn't walk two steps in any direction without stepping in it. It's not natural for them to be there with that amount of population and there is thousands of natural environments for them to utilize including the river right over the bank so I don't see the issue with controlling there presence in a park.
Having said that there is lots of ways to keep them out of the park that can be done humanely, first and foremost is don't feed them. If people didn't feed them then the population would not be that much of problem to begin with. A huge popluation of geese or ducks all congregating in the same place is not healthy even for the ducks and geese themselves besides the other aquatic life, people... etc.
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Although many people enjoy feeding waterfowl in parks and on private property, this often contributes to goose problems. Feeding may cause large numbers of geese to congregate in unnatural concentrations. Well-fed domestic waterfowl often act as decoys, attracting wild birds to a site. Feeding usually occurs in the most accessible areas, making a mess of heavily used lawns, walkways, roads, and parking areas.
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Supplemental feeding also teaches geese to be unafraid of people, making control measures less effective. Feeding may be unhealthy for the birds too, especially if bread or popcorn becomes a large part of their diet. Once feeding is discontinued, geese will disperse and revert to higher quality natural foods. Geese that depend on human handouts are also less likely to migrate when severe winter weather arrives, and are more vulnerable to disease.
It's not the same at Kirby Park without the ducks. I eels really empty down by the pond now. I realize that the hundreds of Canadian Geese became a problem, but I'm sure they could of found a compromise and kept only a few ducks around, maybe twenty or so. The ducks in the pond were one of the main highlights of going to Kirby Park, and now there are none. I think it's a shame!
A couple or ducks or geese are not an issue but if you were ever there when there were hundreds of them you'd know it was more than just a little bit of fertilizer laying around. You couldn't walk two steps in any direction without stepping in it.
The space that they take up is quite small in relation to the total acreage of the park. I've practiced my martial arts barefoot at the pondside many, many times and never had a problem with green feet.
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It's not natural for them to be there with that amount of population and there is thousands of natural environments for them to utilize including the river right over the bank so I don't see the issue with controlling there presence in a park.
It isn't natural for ME to be on 309 during rush-hour with the amount of population there, either, but I am.
Thousands of natural environments? Have you seen all the development taking place in this area lately? What isn't turning into quarter-million dollar townhouses or yet another big-box chain is being polluted to a fare-thee-well. The deer, bears, etc. are being driven further and further away from their natural homes and into the urban landscape. Then we cry when they show up. Lovely.
Man created this problem when he created that pond and allowed people into the mix. People being what they are, they feed the geese. Now they want to get rid of the geese when they prove to be slightly inconvenient.
The issue is the word you just used - "control". It isn't natural to control wildlife - hence the appellation "wild".
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Having said that there is lots of ways to keep them out of the park that can be done humanely, first and foremost is don't feed them. If people didn't feed them then the population would not be that much of problem to begin with. A huge popluation of geese or ducks all congregating in the same place is not healthy even for the ducks and geese themselves besides the other aquatic life, people... etc.
I agree that not feeding them would be the most humane measure, but somehow I don't think that's the one being used in this instance...
Although most people find a few geese acceptable, problems develop as local flocks grow and the droppings become excessive (a goose produces a pound of droppings per day). Problems include over-grazed lawns, accumulations of droppings and feathers on play areas and walkways, nutrient loading in ponds, public health concerns at beaches and drinking water supplies, aggressive behavior by nesting birds, and safety hazards near roads and airports. Geese can also damage agricultural crops by excessive grazing.
By point -
over-grazed lawns - not a concern
accumulations of droppings - only a concern (possibly) on the walkway around the pond - but the "walkway" is just dirt and grass, so at worst someone might have to clean off their Guccis before they get back into their Escalade. I don't have any sympathy for them. The play areas are far removed from the geese.
Nutrient loading - might be a consideration, but that pond is really for visual enjoyment only and isn't meant to be a showcase limnological specimen.
Drinking water supplies - N/A
Aggressive behavior - if you leave THEM alone, they'll leave YOU alone - unlike South Main Street.
Safety hazard to traffic - N/A
Agricultural crop damage - N/A
I hardly see cause for concern over all the "damage" these birds do, compared to the enjoyment they bring to city dwellers. I AM concerned about the valid points made about interrupting their migration cycles and learning not to fear people.
Overall, it has always seemed to me to be the crying of only a relatively few people who want their comfort and urban conveniences yet still be able to say they relate to "nature". They usually live in places like Pine Forest Estates - you know, the place that hasn't a single pine tree in sight. But you can be sure the Escalade has a "Save The Enviroment" sticker on it...
SiFuPhil, I can empathize with you. I, too, am appalled at how rapidly this area is now growing and how little concern these new residents, mostly from NY/NJ, have for our local eco-system. There are literally hundreds of existing homes on the market currently in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area, yet everywhere I look now here in Greater Pittston there are more trees being plowed over for more townhomes and McMansions. Why? Pittston City at its peak housed 21,000 residents. It now has around 7,000 and looks extremely dirty and distressed. As Pittston has shed 14,000 residents, the adjacent suburbs of Jenkins Township, Pittston Township, Yatesville, Laflin, etc. are BOOMING. I just drove home today from an exhilirating run from Wyoming to Wilkes-Barre and back, and on the way home I couldn't help but notice all of the construction going on at River Shores, Stauffer Pointe, Quail Hill, etc. I never would have guessed Greater Pittston was so affluent, but I suppose all of those BMWs in the parking lot at my alma mater should have been a good indication.
The space that they take up is quite small in relation to the total acreage of the park. I've practiced my martial arts barefoot at the pondside many, many times and never had a problem with green feet.
Well I've been there when there was hundreds if not a thousand of them and it certainly was a nuisance. A small pond like that just can't support a large population like that.
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Thousands of natural environments? Have you seen all the development taking place in this area lately?
Besides the 20 miles of river running through the valley alone there are thousands of lakes and ponds, they get more prevalent the farther you move north. When you get up into Wyoming and Susquehanna county there is an enormous amount of bodies of water from small ponds to small sized lakes which is much more suitable area for them. Combined with the river there is more than enough areas for them to be.
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Man created this problem when he created that pond and allowed people into the mix
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I could be wrong but I don't remember them being there as kid and that was 30 years ago. I really think the problem was created by people feeding them. Apparently there is other resons also outlined in that page i linked too such as safer environment from predators.
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The issue is the word you just used - "control". It isn't natural to control wildlife - hence the appellation "wild".
If you're feeding them and they get used to humans they are no longer truly wild are they? I guess it depends on your perspective but by feeding them you are in fact controlling them. Try luring them in with a piece of bread if you're hunting them in real natural environment. Even the geese would be laughing...
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accumulations of droppings - only a concern (possibly) on the walkway around the pond - but the "walkway" is just dirt and grass, so at worst someone might have to clean off their Guccis before they get back into their Escalade. I don't have any sympathy for them. The play areas are far removed from the geese.
Like I said there was huge amount of droppings there last time I visited but that was few years ago.
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Nutrient loading - might be a consideration, but that pond is really for visual enjoyment only and isn't meant to be a showcase limnological specimen.
I can remember fishing fishing there as kid, wasn't much to catch but there was some fish. I'd imagine the fish are all probably gone now due to the very poor water quality. Save the geese, the hell with fish...
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Aggressive behavior - if you leave THEM alone, they'll leave YOU alone - unlike South Main Street.
Actually had one chase my girlfriends daughter, I think she may have gotten too close, maybe her small size. Whatever it was we were only walking. She wasn't chasing them or approaching them. I've been chased by swans myself elsewhere, they can be aggressive at times. I used to deliver coal to lot of rural areas. The farmer that had the swan said the swan was best damn guard dog he ever had. Think it was swan, might have been a goose.
In any event it really is not the place to have a very large population of geese. If there was just a few of them so be it but I really think any amount will only make the situation get much worse like it used to be the last time I was there.
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I hardly see cause for concern over all the "damage" these birds do, compared to the enjoyment they bring to city dwellers.
We are surrounded by millions of acres woods much of which is state game lands and state parks within a very short drive. Many of the interiors of the state game lands are accessible by car in case you were not aware. Just because its called state game lands doesn't mean you need to be hunting on it. If you want to take a nice ride in the woods go out 29 to Noxen, where 29 makes the right at the store continue straight. Make a left after the bridge. Continue straight for about 10-15 miles. That will take you up to the top of Red Rock. Nice long drive. There's a small lake up there, maybe you'll find some geese.
Last edited by thecoalman; 06-02-2008 at 12:12 PM..
Well I've been there when there was hundreds if not a thousand of them and it certainly was a nuisance. A small pond like that just can't support a large population like that.
Wow - I don't think I've ever seen THAT many. Maybe I wasn't there during the feeding frenzy.
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Besides the 20 miles of river running through the valley alone there are thousands of lakes and ponds, they get more prevalent the farther you move north. When you get up into Wyoming and Susquehanna county there is an enormous amount of bodies of water from small ponds to small sized lakes which is much more suitable area for them. Combined with the river there is more than enough areas for them to be.
Ah, OK. I don't really get up that far. But as you said, I guess because people feed them here it's like a neon diner sign saying "OPEN".
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If you're feeding them and they get used to humans they are no longer truly wild are they? I guess it depends on your perspective but by feeding them you are in fact controlling them. Try luring them in with a piece of bread if you're hunting them in real natural environment. Even the geese would be laughing...
I suppose - but that's why I don't feed them. LOL@huntingwithbread.com!
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I can remember fishing fishing there as kid, wasn't much to catch but there was some fish. I'd imagine the fish are all probably gone now due to the very poor water quality. Save the geese, the hell with fish...
Actually there were a few folks fishing there a few weeks ago. Don't know if they caught anything or not...I always thought fishing wasn't about catching fish - it was just an excuse to get away from the wife!
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Actually had one chase my girlfriends daughter, I think she may have gotten too close, maybe her small size. Whatever it was we were only walking. She wasn't chasing them or approaching them. I've been chased by swans myself elsewhere, they can be aggressive at times. I used to deliver coal to lot of rural areas. The farmer that had the swan said the swan was best damn guard dog he ever had. Think it was swan, might have been a goose.
Yeah, they can be quite territorial, and the little girl probably looked like easy pickings. I know that geese can be nasty - my Mom was raised on a farm in Michigan and told me stories about them chasing her - and anyone else - all around the yard.
I didn't think swans were aggressive - guess I've never seen their dark side.
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We are surrounded by millions of acres woods much of which is state game lands and state parks within a very short drive. Many of the interiors of the state game lands are accessible by car in case you were not aware. Just because its called state game lands doesn't mean you need to be hunting on it. If you want to take a nice ride in the woods go out 29 to Noxen, where 29 makes the right at the store continue straight. Make a left after the bridge. Continue straight for about 10-15 miles. That will take you up to the top of Red Rock. Nice long drive. There's a small lake up there, maybe you'll find some geese.
I've heard about Red Rock, never knew anything about it except the youth camp is there (?). Unfortunately because of my work schedules I don't get to visit nature much these days, but I'll remember that for the future - thanks!
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I really think the problem was created by people feeding them. Apparently there is other resons also outlined in that page i linked too such as safer environment from predators. 
