Racism in NEPA---A Growing Epidemic. When Will it End? (Mexico: felony, to live in)

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by sues1

i don't care what you showed me.

Well, that really is the crux of the matter, isn't it?

Your worldview is impervious to empirical evidence, and mine isn't.

That's ignorance in a nutshell.

[sues1]

Originally Posted by The Commish

Well, that really is the crux of the matter, isn't it?

Your worldview is impervious to empirical evidence, and mine isn't.

That's ignorance in a nutshell.

Think what you want!!!!

[TexanWest]

There's quite a bit of discussion about people not "assimilating" into America, and quite a bit of it is misguided.

You know what you get when Hispanic families have further succeeding generations of children? You get folks like me. As the generations continue down the line, knowledge of Spanish begins to disappear and any sort of "connection" with the country of origin fades away as well, including any cultural connections.

The same thing happened with the Polish immigrants in places like Dupont, or the Italians in Old Forge. How long did it take for the "Old Country" languages to finally die out in NEPA? If you want to see some of the lack of assimilation that existed in NEPA for many years, you might notice local cemeteries with Irish, Italian, or Polish sections. You might notice churches that had a distinct ethnic bent to them, as St. John the Baptist's in Pittston used to have. What about the Italian festivals or St. Patrick's Day parades that still exist in the region? They're all leftovers from the Balkanizing effect from which the area suffered for decades.

Yes, it is ridiculous that we have government services in Spanish. I do believe that if one comes here, he/she needs to learn the defacto language of English, and having the bilingual services does more to hurt immigrants by taking away the incentive to learn English, or at least slow the absorption of the language.

But I think some people really need to look at their attitudes a bit. This thread was about a bigoted attack on an innocent man and about how the attitudes that precipitated the attacks permeate the NEPA region, but it's quickly descended into discussions about how "them people" all shop at Wal Mart, or how "them people" talk differently or have a different culture from the ones which some people are used to.

Adaptation to a new country takes time. It won't happen overnight. But it'll happen. I live in the largest city on the US-Mexico border. This whole immigration debate is nothing to us. The city is over 80% Mexican-American, is incredibly patriotic (probably moreso than most tonws in NEPA these days), and, yes, has Spanish spoken everywhere. We know that, as the years go on, families become more and more American. They no longer care about watching the Juarez Indios soccer team on TV in favor watching the Dallas Cowboys. They could care less about "connecting" with relatives in Mexico for the most part.

Folks, the Hispanics in your midst will adjust over time, don't worry. You already have Hispanics up there speaking Heynabonics, and that will continue. They'll head down to the Hobo Base in Avoca on Saturdays and head up to Big Bass Lake in the summers (I have no idea if the place still exists, but bear with me). Yeah, you'll have a new ethnic group there, but they'll fit in with the Irish, Polish, Italians, Greeks, Germans, and so on. If anything, you'll probably get some decent Tex-Mex eateries up there some day.

Hating, hurting, and killing someone based on something as shallow as ethnicity is wrong, whatever your feelings on someone speaking "Espanol" happen to be. As we can see in some of the messages here, old attitudes die hard. I just hope no more people in NEPA die because of those old attitudes.

Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Sorry about that.

[TexanWest]

Originally Posted by LusOnlyVoice

Although I would never treat anyone the way you have described ... I want to let you know that your life experience in NEPA has broken my heart ... and I can't ever imagine what it must have been like for you ... and I am sorry that you experienced that.

I can only hope that your hometown is not Scranton .... because if it were ... shame on us for treating you that way!

My father used to say that humans were the cruelest of all animals and after reading your story I have to say that I totally agree with his statement ... and there really are no words that I can say to take away the hurt that you have experienced ... and teenage girls are the cruelest of the cruel ... especially if you don't fit the mold of what they consider perfection ... I was the fat kid and know what it's like when they pick on you ... but it was nothing as bad as what you have described ... At least I knew why I was being taunted ... and could do something about it ... one can lose weight ... but one cannot change their ethnic background.

Again I want to say I am so sorry for what you went through ... God bless ... and thank you for sharing your painful story!

Lus--

Thank you for your kind words. Writing about my experiences was a bit difficult--brought back a lot of bad memories and emotions. I lived in Pittston, Avoca, Duryea, Moosic, and Old Forge, and I experienced bad stuff in all of them (OF was particularly bad).

I think what made it worse was having no one to really turn to, for the most part. When you even have school teachers and principals joining in on the insults, to whom can you turn?

I hid my anger, depression, and injuries from my parents. Maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I shouldn't have internalized it all and talked about it, but, well...I guess I made a lot of mistakes in retrospect.

I guess I just want folks here to know that there are a lot of innocent people in NEPA who shouldn't go through this kind of treatment, even if a person has limited English skills or if a person is a member of a different ethnic group. Even if someone is an illegal immigrant, then that person is still human. I don't want to get into debate w/ anyone about illegal immigration--this is just about treating people decently.

As I said before, I think about NEPA a lot, almost every day. I think a lot about walking around Lake Scranton in the fall. I think about visiting Blue Ribbon Ice Cream in West Pittston during the summer months and drinking one of those amazing chocolate shakes while looking over at that huge coal breaker across the street that they apparently tore down years ago. I even think about that girl from high school--how she is these days and what she's doing with her life. But there are so many bad memories, they almost wipe out the good ones, and I'd hate to have anyone go through that.

Thanks again.

[FightinPhils]

Originally Posted by TexanWest

Lus--
I lived in Pittston, Avoca, Duryea, Moosic, and Old Forge, and I experienced bad stuff in all of them (OF was particularly bad).

Its hypocritical for people in Old Forge to be unaccepting of Hispanics, since Old Forge is almost entirely Italian....and the Italian language is almost identical to Spanish. Just one generation ago, a good number of the older Italian people in this area still spoke Italian. It took them a few generations to assimilate, but now they criticize the Hispanics. Pathetic.

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by sues1

I'm not ignorant and i'm not bigoted, i'm sick of having to bow down to immigrants that won't assimilate to a country they chose to move to, no-one forced them to come here. When i lived in Germany i did things their way and tried to assimilate myself to they way they live.

I'm with you sue. I'm sick of it too. Don't come to this country and expect to get by or be welcomed if you don't learn our language. I'm so tired of going out to the supermarket or other stores and I have to listen to people chatter in Spanish and very loudly. To me that's ignorant and rude. It's not their right to be in this country, it's a privilege. If you want to live here, learn our language and our customs, just like I would if I moved to a foreign country. We're not bigoted or racist, we're just sick of catering to them and they expect everything handed to them. And why do I have to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish when I call certain places on the phone. There should be no #2 at all. That would get them to learn English quicker if that option wasn't in place. I know people won't agree with me, but that's how I feel.

[CosmicWizard]

NyRangers 2008 wrote:

Excellent post sues1. Why not live where you want and how you want if you worked hard all of your life and earned the right to.

I agree that sues1 wrote an excellent post, and I hit the rep button for it! IMO, working hard and acquiring enough money to live how you want does not give us license to consume a disproportionate amount of resources to build mcmansions and drive energy inefficient vehichle. It appears that we live on a planet with exhaustable resources....only so much oil, natural gas, trees, etc. Living an extravagent lifestyle, even if we've earned it, imposes hardships on those who are less fortunate than us. Our overconsumption creates greater demand on resources and casues the prices to rise, which makes it difficult for those who are economically challenged. Not everyone in that boat, which includes millions of people who DO indeed work their butts off, sits on their ass*s all day. They just never got the breaks that we did. Let's us consider the effect on their lives the next time we head down to home depot in our gas guzzling SUVs.

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by NewAgeRedneck

It appears that we live on a planet with exhaustable resources....only so much oil, natural gas, trees, etc. Living an extravagent lifestyle, even if we've earned it, imposes hardships on those who are less fortunate than us.

Absolute nonsense. Oil, natural gas and trees ARE renewable resources. The earth is making more all the time!

People should choose how they want to live. We don't need the central committee to dictate what is equal. They already tried that and failed in the USSR and China.

[CosmicWizard]

wanneroo wrote:

Absolute nonsense. Oil, natural gas and trees ARE renewable resources. The earth is making more all the time!

Mostly true, but not absolute nonsense. Although these resources are EVENTUALLY renewed. the depletion is taking place at a MUCH FASTER pace than the renewal. Therein lies the problem.

[Jungle George]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

Absolute nonsense. Oil, natural gas and trees ARE renewable resources. The earth is making more all the time!

People should choose how they want to live. We don't need the central committee to dictate what is equal. They already tried that and failed in the USSR and China.

Natural resources are NOT renewed as fast as they are being consumed or destroyed. Excessive consumption and waste are 2 factual by-products of people "choosing" how they want to live while having no regard for others or the planet.